pom-pom

And no, I still haven't swapped the green spoked tender wheels back for the discs as I need to see all wheels turning on the track whilst I make adjustments. Similarly, I have not yet swapped the bogie wheels out for the much better Gibsons - at present I am at a loss on how to paint and line these wheels... does anyone have any tips on this please? I presume that mounting the axle in a drill chuck would be an option.

A little update on modifications. For those that would like red-lined cylinder covers, it makes quite a difference to the overall appearance. I'm not great at painting such fine lining in a straight line yet so I cheated and fitted Hornby's spare part No. X9561.. lined cylinders at about £3. Why Hornby couldn't just fit this part in the first place will probably remain a mystery. And yes, add another £3 to the cost! Note that some fine adjustments to the ride height of the tender has not only lined it up better vertically but also the difference in height between the cabside numbers and the tender lettering is now not so pronounced. I found that the single little plastic lug holding the leading edge of the tender body down was not doing so sufficiently and is very much a weak point. There is room underneath to drill clearance/pilot holes for the tiniest self-tappers available, in my case 1.4 x 6mm, these will pull the front down nicely onto the chassis. Nick

Look out - there's another Hornby A3 on the horizon and the photo on the website is not a computer-generated graphic but a photo. http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/locomotives/steam-locomotives/br-4-6-2-minoru-a3-class-br-1955.html Now this one has it all - later cab cut-outs, LH-drive, a GN tender, absolutely straight running plate/frame, no kinks under the smokebox and no ski-jump at the front! It must surely be constructed in a different factory. I'm not sure if this tender match is accurate for Minoru if the livery was backdated to grouping times. And... it's not in LNER livery so a total repaint job for me. I normally shy away from repainting because lining out is just the wrong side of the limits of my skills. Clearly I need practice. Perhaps I should go for this A3 instead/in addition... get the paints out instead of the scalpel.. ;-) Of course, it would be complete buffoonery to purchase another bent frame A3... bitten once I am very much twice shy.

I'm sure this may have been discussed elsewhere in the forum but I often look at various RTR models and think.. "if only I could have that dome/chimney or that cab or that tender... not the whole loco". The possibilities for creating further models would be greatly enhanced. Perhaps I've got it wrong - are specific parts available from Bachmann, Hornby, et al.? I keep staring at all these GCR tenders coupled to RTR O1/O4/J11 locomotives and think of the possibilities for further GCR models... having the tender readily available and various other difficult to make sundries such as boiler fittings makes the prospect of scratchbuilding a whole lot more approachable.

Introducing heat to a plastic-bodied and nicely finished body is for the very brave only! If you trace this thread backwards you will come across my little endeavour to correct the banana-shaped front end. And yes, agreed re., manufacturers mess up... particularly so at this price point. Nick

Let us imagine for one moment, in a parallel universe... "Book Law" came out after all the waiting... it was almost flawless. But not only that, it came with an easily dismantled cab and a small collection of interchangeable large cutout/small cutout cab sides and bucket/non-bucket seats. Now in this little collection of cab sides there could even be ones with different cabside numbers for those not want or able to deal with tiny transfers. So far, we are talking about little pieces of plastic costing... well, probably costing very little. But imagine the possibilities with that little lot... both for us and Hornby sales. How about if Hornby sold LH/RH drive conversion kits and tenders on their own... what about an A1 GN tender in apple green... Now that sounds more like 150 quid's worth... ahh, I'm dreaming....!

Apologies not needed as I myself spend some time on the site and then, when life does not permit, I am elsewhere for protracted periods of time and frequently miss things. One thing I would like to note Tony is thanks extended for the advice on changing the front bogie wheels on A3s... I have furnished myself with a set of Gibson wheels and very fine they look too. As far as other work on goes on Hornby's errant "Book Law", I have been working on lowering the ride height of the tender as several comments have suggested it is too high. The wheels appear to be spot-on diameter wise. Incidentally, "Book Law" is now available new again from Hornby for anyone feeling brave or foolhardy. I would have loved to obtain another one but the growing list of corrections needed dissuades me entirely. Here is the link to the Hornby site page and note that there is now a brutally honest 3/4 front-view available showing all her running plate/frame distortions off to full effect! http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/locomotives/steam-locomotives/lner-4-6-2-book-law-a3-class.html Nick

Damn! Looks like I will have to return the disc wheels to my tender to be accurate then... Shame as the green spoked ones look considerably better with this loco/tender. I wonder... does anyone know if the disc wheels on these "new type" A3 tenders were painted green to match the loco wheels? The A4s in the 1930s all appear to have had their disc tender wheels painted the same maroon colour as the loco wheels? Thanks for the research tip Les. As you say, the cab cut-out dates Hornby's Book Law to pre-1936 but I believe the small cabside wind deflectors were fitted in 1932 so we can further date it as 1932 - 1935. Nick

Thanks for sharing these photos - I'm inspired and can only aspire to such realism! The permanent way is also very impressive. You set your attainment bar very high. Nick

Beggars belief doesn't it. The tender body is attached by a weak plastic lug at the front and this looks to be either snapped off or not located properly (not that that stopped the assembly workers screwing the rear end down good and hard). If you remove the coupling from its socket at the rear of the tender you can gain access to this screw. Is the frame straight? It doesn't look like it. This is one that probably even I'd send back with a vitriolic strongly-worded letter but I appreciate the massive inconvenience being out in New Zealand.

I really like what you've done below the frames, dark, oily and well maintained - it's very convincing. The kind of rail grime you emulate is just that but on the TMC A3 it seems rather more 'wet lorries on the M1 weathering', looks like it's splashed through a few muddy puddles.

"Blow over" is an apt description! Smokebox handrail - do you mean the upside-down curve of the handrail across the face of the smokebox Mick? Is it not supposed to be like that? Damn... another thing to pull off, sort out, reattach and paint!

I find that all TMC weathering looks the same whether applied to a loco/wagon/etc. They have their trusted formula for the process it seems. Looks too 'airbrushed' to me.

Don't get it... what's the point in weathering something that's wrong? I've always thought this process was a final process after everything else had been sorted. That price makes me wince considering the above. Actually, it just makes me wince full-stop.. ;-)

Thanks, glad you enjoy or can maybe use this information. Still can't believe I'm taking a scalpel to a 150 quid model but hey-ho, in for a penny in for a pound. I just want the graceful lines of this A3 to fit that of it's 1924 namesake which seems to have been nicely 'lined-up' properly!

Sighting along the right-hand side showing a running plate far more parallel with the rails and the boiler..

I am pleased to note that comparison with the Isinglass drawing indicates that Hornby have faithfully matched all dimensions I have cared to measure, although many of you probably already know this from previous models. Footplate/running plate straightening: I have turned my attention to the firebox area where the dip forward is pronounced on both sides of the loco. On the right-hand, fireman's side the dip downwards continues right along over the driving wheels. Although the latter is only slight it arrests the eye and in my opinion gives the impression that the loco body is tilted upwards along its length toward the smokebox. This may not be present on all locos and may not concern some but to me it was grating. From the photo you can see that the running plate prises away from the body and splashers reasonably easily. It will not however come away from below the cab as the running plate moulding is integral with the firebox construct within the cab. The lugs visible under the running plate below the cab are fixings for the cab sides. At this stage I didn't want to remove the cab nor firebox for fear of damaging the paintwork. The large black lever on the right in the photo is a piece of wood used to hold the running plate away from the body. I found that in order to lift the running plate up, closing the firebox gap on this side and lifting it up slightly above the rearmost driving wheel, I had to remove the lugs on the rearmost splasher with a needle file. This was done so that a glue bond could be made without undue force required to hold parts together. The running plate was glued using tiny drops of super-glue on a pin under the firebox area and behind the footstep where the running plate curves upwards at the front of the firebox. The back of the footstep gives a good sized gluing area directly to the firebox. Notes on the driving wheel splashers: (i) they look better painted apple-green as I believe they should be, (ii) the rear and centre splashers are integral with the boiler moulding; the leading ones are integral with the running plate moulding, (iii) the white lining on these splashers isn't great, being too pronounced on the leading front splashers particularly. The 'before and after' photos show the end result - not a massive change but removal of the gap under the firebox and a better (straight and level) sighting line along the running plate has resulted. Next job is probably the left-hand side where the gap under the firebox is also pronounced! Perhaps if Hornby had remade this model with a cast metal running plate we would have both more weight and more rigidity in this area... seems to work well for Bachmann.

I challenge anyone to read this detail unaided! Hornby should be commended at rendering and paying attention to such exquisite fine details even if we can't see them and even if elsewhere great big details are wonky and we can see them. However, I really feel like I must take issue with the Doncaster Works No. of 1764... it's come to my attention that that belongs to a V1 built in 1931..! ;-)

Close-up of the default model cab number. Is it the '5' that's too high or the '2' that's slipped or a bit of both? Really nice detail around the cab window area, the model bears up well at such cruel close-quarters.

Thanks Glenn, I did wonder what those 'black sandwich plates' were. Mine sprung loose when I attempted to use this outrageous 'bending method' to straighten the front footplate but they glued back in place okay. Glad to hear the latter worked for you. I am deliberating as to what to tackle next - I don't want to embark on anything drastic until some Isinglass drawings arrive so that I can check some measurements. I suspect that the body-shell is attached too low down at the cab end. However, I could get on with sorting the front buffer beam as you have... and then those LNER letters on the tender are going to have to come off, pending new repositioned ones... Talking of Isinglass drawings, I noticed there's one available for A1/A3 variants with the experimental ACFI hot water feed apparatus (2576 "The White Knight"/2580 "Shotover") which would make an interesting 1930s model. A general question here please for anyone that has experience of Hornby body-shell glues... does anyone know what can be used to loosen the bond, dissolve the glue even without damaging the plastic? I use a liquid, brushed solvent glue to assemble kits and I've noticed that this can sometimes be used to soften joints for repositioning... perhaps I have answered my own question.

Excellent, good to see someone having a go at it. So did you buy two of them then? I'm sure you'll understand when I say "Your front footplate is shocking Sir! ...but your front bufferbeam is somewhat improved than that of mine..." So, the numbers, you used T-cut to remove them, any particular type/brand is good for this? The success you've had with the cab numbers gives me faith in tackling the tender letters... in due course.

A few more recent photos. Note that I have drawn a thin red line through the right-hand, fireman's side to show the footplate alignment above the driving wheels. This is clearly wrong and is part of the distortion under the firebox which is worse on this side. I am summing up the courage to do something drastic about it. Is the tender really too high or is the cab too low? Is the entire loco not level, rising at the front? The distorted footplate is not helping in this apparent discrepancy and the distorted footplate in front of the smokebox, now much reduced, may not be so apparent if the body is moved up at the cab end... I clearly need the Isinglass drawing! I don't suppose someone could kindly provide me with a rail to cab roof measurement please? Any height adjustment of the cab end of the body will necessitate a new fixing method as Hornby have used a plastic lug at this end which locates in the chassis. Nick

Here's a couple of photos of the tender with alternative spoked wheels. These are spares for the Hornby P2 (part no. X6659) and as far as I am aware are identical in all proportions to the disc wheelsets provided with "Book Law." Note that the cartazzi wheelset now stands out like a sore thumb being painted black. There is an alternative flanged wheelset for this included with the model, presumably for display purposes. Also, the buffer height adjacent to the leading coach suggests that the tender might be riding slightly high and this has been mentioned earlier. If anyone would kindly furnish me with the correct, expected height from rail to running plate then I shall check this. Running: out of the box this tender was like a millstone round the loco's neck as such... it was being dragged reluctantly round my test track. I knew there were problems but it was only when I swapped the disc wheelsets out for the spoked versions that I could actually see how each wheelset was rotating/behaving. I could detect no obstructions caused by moulding flash nor the electrical pickups fitted. At the outset I should say that the running problems I have experienced with my tender could well be isolated, in the absence of any confirmation from others. I haven't had this problem with other Hornby eight-wheeled tenders. Initially the third wheelset was not rotating at all and riding up in the frame on 22.5" radius (4th radius) curves. The axle retaining plate (held in by three screws) removed, it became clear that the second and third axles are designed to move higher up into the tender than the leading/training axles. I found that the only way I could stop the third axle from riding up too high, preventing the wheels from having any adhesion with the rails, was to limit vertical travel by inserting a carefully shaped sliver of hardwood (about 1/32" thick) above the axle, i.e., before inserting the axle into it's retaining slot in the underneath of the tender body itself. Bodge job..? Feels like it. However, it works well. I shall replace the wood with a piece of suitable Plastikard... In order to relieve the poor-running in general I briefly took out the drawbar between loco and tender and experimentally bent it very, very slightly to relieve/increase the pressure on the axles. I thoroughly recommend that this route is not pursued as the slightest change can result in an A3 that won't pull the skin off a rice-pudding. I went from my benchmark standard for this A3 of being able to haul seven Hornby 62' Gresley coaches (fairly heavy) round a 22.5" radius loop with straight sections of about a yard in length to being barely able to haul four of the aforesaid coaches with lots of wheelspin. Ultimately, the running issues have eased with running and lubrication but don't expect any high-precision engineering down there... Hornby have designed those axles to slop about all over the place in order to negotiate tight 'toy-train curves'.

Thanks Ian, I will do some talking then. This isn't my thread but it started as a query as to how well Hornby had rendered this new A3 and by and large so far we are cataloguing the bad/good points (okay, mostly the bad!) so that any other modellers searching for such information in the future will be 'clued-up' before purchase, secondhand perhaps. Of added use is addition of methods used to modify or correct problem areas. The value of this kind of information in a long-lived internet forum archive will outlive that of contemporary hand-wringing over Hornby's QC issues. So perhaps we should dispense with any further discussion of what/how/when in QC/Management in this thread. If Hornby ever read this then I'm sure they'd appreciate a frank discussion of the merits of the model rather than anything else. I'm a newbie here so I imagine the thread content is somewhat 'chaired' by the originator? Ian - at 2,630 posts I would hazard a guess at you being here at the very beginning! Nick

You are mistaken, yes I can be inquisitive but please don't be defensive, there's no need. I was only interested in your opinion that's all. No offence intended. Let's just stick to discussion of the model. And I apologise for inadvertently leading the discussion away from such if that's what happened.