Shez

I still seem to be suffering from loco kit indecision - so in the meantime its on with a couple of coaches. As you on here know a few years ago Jamie Guest drew me some parts to make some NBR 6 wheel coaches. You can find the whole tale on the thread "North British Six Wheel coaches" Jamies art work was subsequently acquired by Peter Mullen at 62C Models and from that base a whole range of kits for 4 six wheel and bogie coaches are taking shape. The NBR under Holmes simply elongated their basic coach design. These are complete kits with everything you need. Now I have done a four wheeler and some six wheelers - but a bogie coach is a whole different matter. Uncharted territory. So I have embarked on building a third and a luggage composite in tandem. I am starting by building both bodies as I would like to get both done by the good weather so I can paint and line them. Bogies and underframes can come later. I began by folding the top and bottom of the sides and forming the tumblehome. I gently rolled this using a piece of brass rod. On a Holmes coach there is not much to put on - they have a very "square" box like profile so don't over do it. The holes in the side of the coach are so that that the distinctive lower paneling can be soldered on from behind. While I had the bending bars handy I decided to also fold up the underframe floor. This will allow me to check the body is square and level. The picture shows the Third.

I am still deciding what is going to be the next big project, so I decided to get on with some smaller ones in the meantime. One of these being the whole question of Number133... A few years ago flushed with success at getting a loco to actually work, I decided I wanted a model of one of my favourite locos - the NBR class M or LNER C15. A "Claymore" kit was acquired - what could possibly go wrong? Quite a lot actually! Although the loco body is passable, the chassis was another matter. I somehow failed to grasp that the rear end of the chassis joggled inwards and that the pony truck bearings needed to be soldered inside. Result a loco that shorted on the slightest curve. Attempts to hack away bits of the chassis only made matters worse - part of the frame sheared off on a test run on Green Ayre - so apart from being used as the test for "could I do NBR passenger livery", no 133 has languished forlornly in her box, unloved and neglected. I still wanted a Class M. A couple of years ago I came across one of the original incarnation of the kit from the Majestic Models range at a very good price on the guild second hand stall. Was this the answer? I somehow though couldn't bear to junk 133, so a plan has evolved. The first part has to to take the chassis etch from the new kit and build an entirely new chassis, using the wheels and motor from 133. As the photograph shows this has been done over the last few weeks and now finally Number 133 can re emerge as as the proverbial "really useful engine" on my future planned layout. Just need to tart her up a bit! Part two of the project at a later date is to build the body from the new kit, but to paint it in LNER livery, so 133 will have an alternative identity, and everything gets used. (I even have a possible plan for the remains of the original chassis) . I have also recently done a couple of wagon kits and you can probably see a NBR empty cask wagon (Taff Vale Models) peeping out from behind. Another Cattle Wagon has also taken shape. Moral of tale - never get rid of anything you make - take some time out and re think it.

Thanks for the sound advice yet again.

Well all was going fine two points and some track down and then.................. Noticed that on one of the Peco points I have modified the wire from the frog has broken. Should I 1. try and solder it back on where it comes out - not a lot of room and could do damage. 2. Solder on to some other part of the frog rails - not as neat but probably easier and more secure. 3. Junk the point - hope not!!

Thanks ever so much for you reply Grovenor. That's really helpful . The first question was the one that was really puzzling me. So pleased I can go ahead with putting the points down now. Had a look at your link and there is some great stuff there.

This is my first visit to this part of the forum. Normally I am lurking about on "Kitbuilding and Scratchbuilding" happily building O gauge locos and stock. I tend to run them on our club layout and test tracks. However with lockdown they are not getting a run out so I have decided to put together a small simple end to end generally based on the Ian Futers "Victoria Park" plan. Trouble is I have to face my demons of layout wiring. Building a loco and making it run doesn't phase me - this does! As this is a quick layout I am using some Peco points which I have modified for frog polarity switching, and will do this with switched seep point motors. I have read the books and watched the u tube vids. I think I am pretty much there - but a couple of little things are still bugging me. 1. Points facing each other in a cross over. I get that you have to isolate the diverging tracks with breaks. Simples! But what happens if you want to have the cross over a bit wider apart with a short piece of track in between? Do you have to break both ends of it and put in an independent feed for this short section, or can you have break at one end joiners at the other thereby extending the frog rails? This is probably an obvious question but I cant get my head round it. 2. Points laid in sequence in same direction both left handed one after the other. Can it feed on directly? If so how does the power transfer from the gapped frog rail? Or do I need to gap both rails between and put in a new feed. ( I get this is required if laid back to back) 3. Siding off main line - again would you gap and re feed if both if frogs are isolated? If not how does the power get into the siding? Sorry if this is blindingly obvious and the answers are else where. I just need clarification.

Look forward to following this. Memories of footplates rides on NCB Hunslets as a kid. 63 and 48 at Manvers Main.

The Director is now pretty much completed and ready for a painting slot when the weather improves. All the soldering is now completed. There are just a few details to add after painting such as buffers and safety valves. I have pretty much settled on wartime black and on "Butler Henderson" as the identity. She will be pretty much a one off in my collection, but I wanted to mark the connection between this famous loco and my relative. She is by no means perfect and I struggled in places, but I feel I can now tackle some more challenging locos. Looking back ten years to the little 0-4-0 tank I started with its been a fascinating journey of trial and error. The kit makes into a lovely model, and is good value but anyone building it needs to be aware of a number of factors. If you are used to "slot and tab" there is very little in the way of guidance. You need to be careful to make everything square. I actually soldered in little pieces of angle in places to help me. There is a need to remove a large amount of metal to get clearances from the driving wheels. The instructions do not mention this Be prepared for some scary bending and forming - the footplate, the firebox, and the tender flares. I made a lot of use of annealing in construction. The kit makes three different variants - the original, improved and Scottish directors. The array of alternative parts can be somewhat bewildering so make sure you are clear from the start which loco you are building. ( I was disappointed that there was not an Isinglass drawing available for this class after I found one such a help with the J21.) You will need the relevant Yeadons register as there were so many detail changes. There was a huge amount of castings of variable quality - some were excellent (chimney, dome,) others weak and fragile - (tender springs - lubricators.) I should say I bought the kit a number of years ago before Gladiators current owners so this may no longer apply. If you build one David (Mr Gladiator) has done a thread on here building Scottish Director "Malcolm Graeme" - its invaluable - I don't think I would have succeeded without it. I found it more helpful than the actual instructions! Would I build another from this kit. Certainly!! In fact a D10 has been added to the ever lengthening to do list - two spent time at Mexborough. If you are of an LNER persuasion and have got a couple of kits under your belt its an enjoyable challenge that will develop both your skills and widen your range of bad language! So what's next? Stay in my homelands or back north of the border.....?

As I said in my last post I have made further progress with the Director with the locomotive its self pretty much finished except for details to add after painting. I pretty much continued to follow the instructions in the box and the pictures on David's thread. The only change I made was to not use some of the small whitemetal lubricators which looked a bit flimsy. I cobbled together some from wire and brass tube using photographs in the Yeadon book. I am quite pleased with her despite some errors, as not long ago I would not have envisaged tackling such a big complex loco as this. On to the tender now and those flares look like they will be a challenge!

After what seems an age doing the lining the Holmes D class for the Eyemouth layout, it is now pretty much finished. After a few more running trials she then just needs crew, couplings and coal, along with a lamp iron for the smokebox which I always seem to knock off when painting. The pipe from the Westinghouse to the cab has also gone awol so I need to replace that. Its the same impressionistic approach to the Holmes Livery that I used on the 0-4-4 tank - rattle cans, paintbrush, and transfers with the lining built up in layers, with a couple of weeks between each application. I finished off with to very light coats of railmatch satin varnish to give that slightly hazy look of a working loco. The black areas are left matt. This livery can easily look "over the top" if left too glossy - and there will probably be a bit more very light weathering and toning down. Very pleased with the lovely NBR crests from Peter at 62C. You can probably see the "Director" lurking at the back of the photo. There has been progress there too.

Just picked this post up. Good to hear. Hope Simon is recovering.

LNER and GC experts out there are no doubt shaking their heads and rolling their eyes! the model depicts a D11/1. I have obviously been modeling Scottish stuff for too long!

This one might come as a bit of a surprise but I have been working on it for a bit on the quiet. A D11/2 from a Gladiator Kit. As well as my usual Scottish stuff I wanted to build some locos that reflected my families involvement at Mexborough shed, a town that's also my birthplace. During the war my great uncle Bill Massey drove the four "Improved Directors" that were allocated there. Bill worked at Mexborough shed all his working life. cleaner, fireman and driver, I therefore decided to build some locos that reflected this - it gives me a whole range of ex GCR, GNR and LNER prototypes to go at. A chance to tackle some larger, more challenging locos and improve my skills. The only criteria is that they must have been shedded at Mexborough at some time or other. in time I might even start a separate thread for these. I decided not to chronicle the build for this one. That's because there is already the excellent "Malcom Graeme" thread on here by Mr Gladiator himself. In fact I would have been completely lost without it and it has been my guide throughout. Its been a steep learning curve with me getting to grips with new challenges such as split level footplates and belpaire fireboxes. The kit does have pitfalls especially the amount of cutting you have to do under the boiler so the driving wheels don't foul. No mention of this in the written instructions. Fortunately David's experiences had alerted me to this, so I was ready for it. Most of the main brass work on the loco body is done and the chassis runs well,. My only deviation has been Slaters hornguides on the leading drivers. Not sure of identity or livery yet. Butler Henderson was always spoken of in the family as "Uncle Bills engine" but does the world need another model of it? Zeebrugge, Mons or Somme are the other possibilities. As to livery. It should really be wartime black. Given that my other current project is lining and detailing my NBR class D in Holmes livery I might be ready for something simple!

Thanks for all this information everyone. I will search out the e mail address and phone number as D51 suggests and give it a try. Love the little picture of the D51 by the way - one of my favourite locos!

Anyone heard anything on this? Still had nothing through despite the site taking the payment.

Thanks very much Jazz. Good advice as always. There is however a bit of an issue with the front splasher on Holmes/Reid locos in that it forms part of the front boiler wingplate - so that had to be in position first.

The splashers proved to be a bit more of a challenge than was expected! The front ones tops were a little too wide and needed to be filed down a little. I made the splashers as sub assemblies first with 188 solder and then put them in place with 145. That involved some swearing! It proved impossible to solder them from the rear so it had to be done from the front and getting the iron in wasn't easy! What did loco builders do before the little modern miracle of blu tack to hold stuff in place? Once that was cleaned up I added the sandbox lids and lubricators. I replaced the whitemetal ones in the kit with cast ones from 62C. I also added a whistle, washout plugs, lock up safety valves and the Westinghouse pump from the same source. I was therefore able to solder these on which I find makes for greater security once the loco is out in the wild. I then turned my attention to the cab and its interior. Again I found that the cab boxes over the wheels and the cab floor needed quite a bit of filing to get them to fit. I like to have access to the cab so I made the roof removable by soldering a couple of strips of scrap etch to run up against the sides. I was pleased to see the fall plate included in the kit. As I have said before locos with a huge gap between loco and tender - and no crew - are my particular gripe. Once that was done it was just a case of adding the large whitemetal castings. So that's her pretty much completed for now. Like all my lockdown projects this winter she will have to wait for spring for painting. I have not yet installed the motor and pickups until the chassis is painted. There are still odd bits to do after painting - buffers, cab dials etc. I am going to do her in the later NBR goods livery of black lined yellow. I have enjoyed building the kit, and while its not currently available if you see one a second hand stall its a straightforward enough build - like the real loco really.

The locos look great Chris, Can I add my support for Jol Wilkinson s' post. For years I thought soldering metal was some sort of black magic - then I was shown how to do it and realized that its no more difficult than using glue. Plus it has the fantastic added bonus of being able to take stuff apart if you make a mess of it! (If your read my posts you will realize that deconstruction is almost a daily occurrence! ) That's why I have found I prefer working with metal to other meduims. I do have a temp controlled iron though - makes things so much easier. The best advice I was given was the "solder loves small gaps" keep the work clamped tight - I use cloths pegs - and the joint will be good. Excited by potential of 3D printing though - particularly for things like brake blocks where there is shorting issues and other difficult to form shapes. Using a range of whatever media is appropriate can mean we can develop a "hybrid" approach which can really be to everyone's advantage.

More progress this week. I attached the valences and buffer and drag beams and the smokebox front with its wingplates. This was less of a problem than on the G7. I added the cab steps before I put the valences on using 188 for strength. I remember having problems with the first couple of locos I built in that the steps were weak and fragile. I therefore do a couple of things to strengthen them up. I drill a small hole through the back of the step and the back of the valance where it fixes. I push through a bit of wire and solder it in place. I then file it back so its invisible. I also solder a strip of scrap brass down the back of the valance. She is starting to take on the characteristic purposeful, look of a Reid locomotive. When I commented recently that the tenders on these locos are often more of a challenge than the locos I forgot that the tenders were in fact a Holmes/Drummond design that Reid perpetuated. I then decided to get the chassis and body together to check everything was OK on clearances. Immediately an issue - the front fixing hole in the chassis did not line up with the one on the body. I should have noticed this before but somehow missed it. I had to measure mark and drill. If you get one of these kits look out for this and check. Once that was right I removed the brake gear from the chassis and just checked everything could run free. If you are contemplating having a go at a loco kit for the first time check this as you go along - I learned the hard way on this one! In this case there was no problem. Since the photo was taken I have put together the front and centre splashers. The tops of these turned out to be just a little wide so I have spent the afternoon filing and checking to get them to fit neatly. The rear of the centre splasher needs particular attention where it fits found the firebox. No real difficulty in doing this - just a few strokes of the file and keep checking. I will get the splashers on next session. There is then only really the cab interior and roof and front steps and then its on to detailing. She is proving quite a quick build by my standards and I am pleased with progress so far. For a kit I was quite half hearted about starting its proving to be an enjoyable and rewarding build.

For a number of years I have used the "safety flux" sold by "Building O Gauge Online". Though the website never seems to be updated I have never had any problems ordering through it. Last month I ordered a bottle of flux and some solder. The site took my order via paypal and I got an acknowledgement e mail. However I have not received my order, and the e mail only replies to an administrator. Can anyone get me in contact with those who supply through this site?

Is that 1.5 each way or overall?

The basic loco body has now been put together. I took an initial decision not to build in my usual way starting with the valances and buffer beams. This was because the rear cab steps are part of the valance, so I thought it might be easier to keep everything flat building initially on the flat footplate. I did this on the G7 tank and said I wouldn't do it again! However, Its also the recommendation of the kit designer and I will bow to Mr Dawsons superior experience. So far, all pretty straightforward you would expect form a kit from this stable. I made the cab, the boiler, and the smokebox as three separate sections and then brought them together. The kit provides alternative smokebox parts for both saturated and superheated versions. The later involves shortening the boiler. Unlike on the J21 I didn't have to mess about with the boiler this time as the saturated version is the kits default position. If you build the kit take care with the locating slots in the footplate though. I had to widen them a little to get everything to fit together. The dome and chimney have just been placed on to check everything lines up. Quite pleased so far especially the join between the smoke box and the boiler - something I have struggled with previously. The rear boiler band has let to be added. Question for anyone who can answer. The loco will be Westinghouse fitted. The pump is located on the side of the boiler and firebox where it curves inwards. How was the pump attached? In photos it just seems to hang in mid air on the pipework. Its clear how pumps were fixed to cabsides or tanks, but for this position its not clear. Was there some sort of fixing bracket behind? On the Pickersgill which had a similar arrangement I simply drilled a hole in the back of the pump and the boiler and used a bit of wire to fix it. However something more prototypical would be good if anyone can enlighten me. Having looked at a lot of pictures I am still not clear.

The loco chassis on the class B is pretty much complete. Decisions have been taken and we a working towards a saturated locomotive. One of the early batch with a Westinghouse brake. I began with the coupling rods as usual and then used the chassis jig to hopefully get everything square. Initially things were a little disappointing as the rods were binding, a problem I have not really had using the master chassis jig. Something was obviously wrong. Firstly it turned out the chassis was not quite level - I desoldered and realigned. Better, but still not right. For the first time on this loco I had used the Heavy Duty Crankpins now sold by Hobby Holidays. These require the hole in the Slaters wheel to be enlarged. It appears that when drilling out the wheels I had got one a little bit off. I filled the hole and redrilled. All went back together again and this time the chassis ran fine. In fact despite all the tribulations its now running really smoothly. Moral - when it doesn't work don't panic just work back through methodically, and try not to swear too much. I also decided to return to using the method of springing I learned from Jazz on this site rather than the hornguides I used on the J21. Two reasons, firstly the chassis is not marked for cutting hornguides, and secondly there would have been an issue with the front spacer. I slightly change things in two ways. As I am not confident with getting the enlarged oval exactly correct I solder two straight pieces of nickle silver scrap etch either side of the bearing hole as rubbing strips. I also drill two small holes in the top of the bearing to take the end of the piano wire and make sure the bearing doesn't rotate. A bit of adjustment on the pressure and all was fine. I then went onto the detailing. There is a nice representation of the inside motion in the kit. One slight change I made was to the motion bracket. This is part of the front spacer and is folded back under it at quite an awkward angle. It then fits in slots on the chassis side. I felt this was tending to push the chassis out and may have been responsible for the unevenness I described earlier. When I did the rebuild I I therefore cut it off and positioned it after the chassis was running smoothly. The brake gear was next and I used my usual method of BA bolts for the hangers, with a length of tube over to act as a spacer then secured with nuts. I beefed the nuts and bolts up from 14 to 12 BA as I found the 14s I have used before can bend under pressure. I got this method from Geoff Holts books, which I find a real source of help and inspiration. While his level of skill and availability of resources is way beyond anything I could dream of, there are loads of good ideas you can use. Jim McGeowans little book on kitbuilding is always by my side as well. As there will be some testing to do I have not yet added the brake pull rods as the wheels will be on and off a bit. I do usually like to use plastic brake blocks from Slaters, but the NBR ones are very distinctive and you cant get away with it. Three D printed NBR brake blocks anyone? With Wakefield clubroom out of action, so its going to be a bit before I can get the chassis on a proper test track. So for the moment I intend to crack on with the loco body.

The Fox ones are on the Caledonian Railway Coach sheet. The lettering and numbering are the same pattern as NBR and slightly smaller than the guilplates ones. Its not obvious that the NBR lettering is there until you look closely at the sheet. Have you got the up to date contact for Guilplates they changed address recently. 4 Thorn Bank, Guildford, GU2 7PL.

Guilplates do a set of coach transfers. They ae a bit overscale, but I find them fine. They do printed crests as well. They don't have a website but I can send you the address if you want. Strangely enough the fox transfers caledonian coaches sheet includes some NBR lettering as well. About enough for one coach. Peter is now doing some transfer crests which are much better than the printed ones. Though I have included the following picture on other threads it seems appropriate to have it here. The other vehicle is a D and S horsebox. I am glad to see others building NBR stuff. I think that for those of us in O gauge its a perfect line to model. Mostly small locos and stock, lots of single track lines and branches.