2996 Victor

Thinking ahead to several planned rolling stock projects, I've been trying to discover what the axleboxes, both grease and oil, used by the Oldbury Railway Carriage & Wagon Co looked like: I'm interested in vehicles that they built between 1890 and 1910.

Images seem surprisingly thin on the ground, i.e. non-existent, and the only thing I've managed to turn up so far was right here on RMWeb in Ruston's thread on building a tank wagon, which includes a drawing: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50429-home-office-1901-cylindrical-tank-wagon-scratchbuild/&tab=comments#comment-586487 The axleboxes shown on the drawing are rounded, and the apparent lids suggst they are grease.

I've had a look at the HMRS website for drawings and photographs, and there may be just what I'm looking for under their MetroCammell files, but its pot luck unless you have prior knowledge. A single photo would be enough just to give a measure of reasonable likelihood for my projects, so if anyone can suggest possible sources of information, I'd be glad to hear from them!

All the best,

Mark

1 hour ago, TurboSnail said:

Warning - slightly salesman-y post coming up!

 

I've been working on these for a while, the SER d1741 2-plank ballast wagon, in use up to the 30s. Now available as a kit for £9, or 2 for £16, add Gibson wheels and bearings to complete. If you would like one, do get in touch via ts3dmodels@gmail.com

 

 

Looking fantastic, if I may say so! Payday tomorrow.....

Cheers,

Mark

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Hi Mark, yes  well spotted, they are the “white shaded black” letters from one of the HMRS P.O. sheets. 

 

There's a blog post on the build here:

 

Thank you, Mikkel, as always! I've still got a Slater's Midland 3-plank kit just crying out for this treatment!

All the best,

Mark

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

You can see now why the ads intrigued me.

 

Possibly the 94xx bodies were bought-in from Farish ready-finished, explaining the price-step up from the 57xx, with the further step-up to the 97xx being due to building a w/m kit.

 

(Victor - I fear I've crashed this whole subject into the middle of your thread. Sorry!)

 

Kevin

No worries, Kevin! Its all fascinating stuff, so please do keep it coming!

Kindest regards,

Mark

On 20/04/2014 at 18:04, Mikkel said:

 

Well here's progress so far. Body built more or less as per instructions, but using replacement MJT W-irons and GWR grease axleboxes, which seem very similar to the MSWJR ones I have seen.

 

Didn't notice the production fault in the planks on the lefthand side - need to fix that with a bit of scribing. I left the various fittings on the solebars until further evidence comes up - but presumably I'll need to remove at least the MR build plate. I've also left the buffers so far, as I'm beginning to believe they were actually quite similar to the MSWJR type.

 

I think there's a photo of a couple of these wagons on the Swindon's Other Railway site. I had better not deep-link to it, but see menu item called "A tour along the line courtesy of Mike Barnsley" under "Chedworth to Foss Cross Quarry" - second last photo in that group.

 

On the same site, the photos of Chris Walker's O gauge Swindon Town station seem to show that he's done a 7 mm model of these wagons, perhaps using the 7mm version of the Slater's kit (see 3rd photo in group).

 

It seems that someone has done 7mm castings for MSWJR W irons and axleboxes, there have been various on ebay, eg these.

 

4mm MSWJR transfers don't seem to be generally available, but I think the HMRS sheets with Private Owner "white shaded black" letters could be used - quite expensive, but I need the lettering for some Farthing based P.O. wagons anyway. 

 

EDIT 1: I have now seen a drawing of the actual wagons. The axleboxes look like they require a bit of filing to fit the shape. But otherwise everything is pretty straightforward as per the MR kit. On the solebar, MR  build plates and a couple of other plates need to be removed. Buffers appear to be MR type as per the kit.

 

EDIT 2: Having worked on the axleboxes, I'm wondering if it actually makes much sense to use GWR ones as the basis. Their shape is not easy to tell from the drawing in the first place. It seems quite different from any other MSWJR axleboxes I have seen. Am going into think mode on this project.

Hi Mikkel,

I meant to ask you ages ago - were the transfers you used the HMRS PO ones?

Many thanks,

Mark

On 11/02/2020 at 00:30, Prof Klyzlr said:

Dear RMWebbers,

 

Darn, it would appear we've lost Mark.... :-(

 

...anyone else modelling G&ER, Cass Lumber, Mower Lumber, or C&O Greenbrier Sub?

(or am I just "whistlin' dixie" down here?) 

 

EDIT: just saw news reports of major flooding in parts of England, hope this finds everyone OK!!! (totally understand if the need to survive flooding is taking precedence over browsing RMWeb... ;-)  ) 

 

Happy modelling, 

Aiming to Improve, 

Prof Klyzlr 

Hi Prof!

It's great to see the fantastic progress you've been making on your layout - it's going to be a stunner when it's finished!

Apologies for not having posted anything for an absolute age, and I only happened to stumble on your post accidentally when I was thinning out some of the threads I've been following.

I'd like to be able to say that I've made progress, but sadly, stagnation set in to a great degree, due largely to my inability to arrive at a layout design that I'm happy with! In the meantime, I've been building stock for UK-outline layouts, designed but not under way yet, and WV has slipped off the radar to a great extent. A short period of being "between jobs" has found me selling a few treasured possessions, among which was my Bachmann Shay, which for all its faults was a sad moment. Not irreversible, though! I've also relocated, within the UK, so that's been a massive upheaval.

As far as a layout is concerned, I've been leaning more and more toward a representation of a switchback as, if I read OBL correctly, some degree switching would occur on both upward and downward runs depending on what cars were in the consist. This would allow, I think, a fair degree of interest operationally, but has the downside of needing to be quite long - if I remember correctly, the switchback loops on the G&ERRR could handle thirteen 40ft cars? Any idea of how the switchbacks were arranged would be welcome.....

Interesting news about the KR models Shay - I've seen their adverts for their GT03 and Fell in the UK modelling press - shame it doesn't sound more versatile, but I'll have a look anyway!

With kindest regards,

Mark

There was a Gaiety 94xx body on eBay recently - difficult to say how accurate it was, but like the 57xx it certainly looked the part! I was quite tempted.....

The South Western Circle certainly seems to be orientated towards the reader/researcher - their sales tab makes no mention of models. It seems like a massive hole in the market - one that a manufacturer like Cambrian Model Rail would be well-placed to fill. I've also left a suggestion on the Mousa Models wish-list!

Just to revive this tread again, I'm wondering whether there are any decent kits available for the LSWR 10-ton 5-plank opens with rounded ends, eg Southern Railway Diagram 1310, that could be converted into the M&SWJR wagons numbered 279-298 and 359-398. Mike Barnsley in M&SWJR Vol.3 says that these M&SWJR wagons were based on the contemporary L&SWR design, and comparing the drawings with those in Southern Wagons Vol.1 by Bixley et al, shows them to be extremely similar.

Best regards,

Mark

35 minutes ago, jamesC37LG said:

 

Taking inspiration directly from this thread (and using @Compound2632

's very useful guide on page 16!), I spent this afternoon building a Slater' s D.299 kit that I picked up at the Doncaster show on Saturday. I must admit, I'm not usually one for kit building, but I have to say this was rather therapeutic and I'm pleased with my results so far! 

It's addictive! 

Well, I succumbed!

http://

And, do you know what, for all its faults when viewed alongside today's offerings, I absolutely love it. It's quite charming. It seems to have the Gaiety chassis, and its two rail rather than three, so it will need modifying when the time comes. But it really makes me smile!

I've also added to my wagon collection. Three of these:

http://

and also a Weltrol and two tank wagons, a Royal Daylight and a Power Petrol.

I'm again pleased to report that most are in excellent condition, so very happy once again. Sadly, two brake vans are not so good - I'm not sure why I bid, to be honest - one of those late night occurrences that you regret.....

Cheers,

Mark

Unable to help myself, over the weekend I started a couple more wagons.....

http://

On the left is a CooperCraft GWR Diagram O2 7-plank open. I've left the floor "as-is". i.e. too high, as it will either be loaded or sheeted so it won't show! I'm using the kit solebars as they're nice mouldings, although I've removed the moulded axleguards and brake hangers as I'll replace them in my usual way with MJT etched axleguards and Bill Bedford's 3D-printed axlebox/spring assemblies.
On the right is another Cambrian Railways 4-plank open. This is another one based on the Cambrian Models kit, using their sides/ends and some of the brake gear, but with a scratchbuilt underframe. Its very similar to the previous one, although it'll be finished in the post-1899 light grey with "CAM (feathers) RYS" livery. It might even gain a sheet support.....

Referring to Bob Essery's Midland Wagons Volume 1, the Midland D299 5-plank open has the following internal dimensions:

14'6-1/4" x 7'0-1/4" x 2'10-1/4", which gives a volume of 290.978cu.ft.

Limestone aggregate having a nominal size of 3" has a density of 140lbs/cu.ft. Therefore, if the volume of a D299 were to be filled with 3" limestone, the total weight would be 18.186tons. Somewhat overloaded, methinks! Unfortunately, lime in powdered form has a density of 208.509lbs/cu.ft, which would give a weight of 27.086tons. Even worse!

Flour, on the other hand, has a density of 37lbs/cu.ft, amounting to 4.806tons, so I suspect S&DJR No.980 has been carrying flour recently.....

Cheers,

Mark

And there seems to have been a singular lack of Swindon's finest for an absolute age.....so much to do, so little time.

Here's a picture of Daisy, just because:

http://

I was just thinking that I should perhaps prioritise a couple of Midland D299s, just to keep Stephen @Compound2632 happy, of course!

Hi Mikkel,

Thank you! I was thinking probably lime, possibly limestone, as there are quite a few quarries within the S&D's sphere of influence. I'm not sure whether a full load of crushed limestone would be within the wagon's carrying capacity, I suspect not. So perhaps I need to do a bit of research and some calculations!

Best regards,

Mark

12 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

This appears elsewhere in RMweb - grey loco and something that looks like and autotrailer. This appears to be the route training version according to posts further down the thread.

 

Thank you, @phil_sutters, from my hazy 35-year-old memories, I'd say that fits the bill almost exactly - it's easy to see how, to the unitiated, that could look like an auto-working! I do seem to recall the inspection saloon being pushed, which presumably was the whole point of the inspection.

Thanks again and best regards,

Mark

Here are some photos of the current wagons, following an attack from the weathering powders. First up are the S&DJR D299 5-plank opens:

http://

http://

http://

and then the pre-1899 livery Cambrian 4-plank and 2-plank opens:

http://

http://

http://

They're nearly all still awaiting their brake levers, which will hopefully be addressed soon, and I'm pondering suitable loads.

Cheers for now,

Mark

9 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

I don't know if Peco will, but Parkside supplied me with spare sprues of the sheet support. Southwark Bridge Models produced an etch of GWR wagon brakegear and detail parts which included the sheet support assembly. I am not sure if Roxey have released that again but it may be worth checking.  The Coopercraft O4 with sheet support is dreadful. I purchased the post 1925 version and will fit the SBM sheet support to that. Building two at the moment as it happens.

 

Craig W

That's exactly what I'm doing with mine - using the CC O4 RCH style i.e. no sheet support and using the Parkside O11/O15 kit sheet support bits. But I'm then building the Parkside kit as BR-era so after the sheet support had been removed.

The Southwark Bridge detail set would be a good option if it's available.

I wouldn't call the CC O4 Open A dreadful - it's just the sheet support bits being moulded with the ends, otherwise it's as nice a kit as their others.

Cheers,

Mark

I've got one of their 64XXs, a 57XX and an 8750 - nowhere to run them as yet though! 

59 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Sorry I should have elaborated

 

As it is and if you want a loco "of its time". Then its fine.

 

However as a basis for bringing up to date there are much better options of Pannier Tank locos which are far better suited to finescaling 

No apologies necessary! I agree with you 100% - even the Mainline Pannier is streets ahead in terms of accuracy and detail, never mind what is available now from Bachmann et al!

Would have been interesting to see the finished article, though......

Cheers,

Mark

48 minutes ago, Graham456 said:

 Well yea but no but !

i to have one of these things which I did repaint, as the paint had fallen off, 

i have kept it just as a histerical monument to show where we have come from and to show that in the past it was possible to cast in Mazark with out it crumbleing into dust. A long lost skill 

 buy the way bertiedog mentioned a 0-6-2 tank ! I picked up a one piece body (apart from added on steps) 

in good condition black with red E S R lettering on the tank side numbered 7 on the bunker is this the one mentioned or someone know what it is as a chassis is needed for it ?

Agreed - it's a thing of it's time, and set against its contemporaries it's not a bad thing overall, and most definitely a GWR Pannier Tank!

And bertiedog mentioned early on in the thread that *overall* it's actually not too bad dimensionally.

The reason I was interested was from the point of view of running one on my proposed 3-rail layout - with tinplate stock, real accuracy isn't an issue! However, I would have been intrigued to see how bertiedog's P4 reworking turned out......

Best regards,

Mark

On 03/02/2020 at 09:23, Booking Hall said:

Hello Mark, thanks for those kind words. I'm glad it's come together in a way that 'speaks' to others besides myself! The April exhibition is at St Lukes Church in Brierfield on 4/5th April and the November one is at Padiham Unitarian Church on 7th November. Do say 'hello' if you manage to get to either of them.

Thanks! It a free weekend, so I'll definitely try to come along, and I'll be sure to say hello!

Best regards,

Mark

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

... on the whole I'm glad of that as they're fiddly things to model correctly - bad enough on the Coopercraft O4 5-plank opens, where the trapezoidal end plates are molded with the wagon ends, so without some fiddling about (which I'm working myself up to try) one can only realistically model the sheet bar in the vertical position.

Hi,

the sheet support "bits" are separate mouldings in the Parkside O11/O15 kit. But of course that would leave you with a wagon that's of no use to you, although the channel underframe parts are good and could be used for a semi scratch build.....

All the best,

Mark

58 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

At that time, of course, virtually every passenger working through Wareham would have been operated in Pull & Push mode - one or two TC sets with a 33/1.

I hope you'll forgive my ignorance, but I would imagine these units as being akin to DMUs - sorry if I'm wrong, but I really don't know much about that era!

My memory is of a locomotive with a single coach that had the appearance of an auto coach, which, assuming it was an inspection saloon as suggested above, is probably what I saw!

Best regards,

Mark