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Good morning Tony, day seven of isolation and still no PCR test results, I must be going wagon crazy. Your van spotting reveals an LMS and a BR vanfit. The really interesting thing is that the LMS van has the RCH vac brake, while the BR van has eight shoe clasp brakes. You would on some occasions perhaps expect the reverse to be true.

Good morning Lloyd, General merchandise wagons tended to emphasise floor space over height in terms of internal volume. A a result, they tended to have longer bodies than coal wagons. One major difference was that they had big doors that could be lowered to form a ramp to facilitate loading by barrow etc. Mineral wagons had small doors, often with a top flap designed to hold back the volume of coal etc. Everything about the mineral wagon was more robust due to the more violent loading and unloading procedures and the way the weight of the load acted on the wagons structure. Mineral wagons often had end doors or bottom doors or both. General merchandise wagons could be used as coal wagons when required but sustained use would damage them rather quickly. Likewise, mineral wagons could be used as General merchandise wagons but loading was harder and they required cleaning out in order to perform these duties. Mineral wagon just refers to other substances that could be carried other than coal, coke for instance. General Merchandise wagons usually had rings to facilitate sheeting and also came in fitted versions for fast freight operations. Fitted mineral wagons were not a thing until much later. I would add that General merchandise wagons usually came in High goods, 5 or 6 plank, 3 plank Medium goods or 1 plank low goods. The fitted versions would be Highfit, Medfit, Lowfit.

Well spotted. As I mentioned up thread, I'm not that familiar with the Airfix 'LMS van'. I notice the Dapol one also has the same feature, so neither are true LMS? There are no flute pies on my Bandana. Good morning Graham, a couple of things I forgot to mention. Most of the runners on the GC carried class F head codes*, some had class H, they were noted as F* in the working timetable, we referred to them F stars for convenience. The* delineated them from normal class F freights and referred to special instructions that allowed them to exceed 35 mph with impunity, in order to keep to time between Annesley and Woodford and on the Woodford return workings. As you can imagine, grease axle boxes were dispensed with rather quickly on the London extension in the early post war years. Tales of Guards strapping themselves in during high speed docents from Catesby tunnel, with fifty lose coupled minerals on the swing are legendary. I quite certain there is also a Low goods or more likely a Lowfit in the class H. My best guestimate would be, sheeted 5 plank High goods / LMS Vanfit / 6 plank LNER High goods / LNER Highfit /LMS or BR Highfit / BR Conflat / Sheeted High goods / 9' wb LNER Van (unfitted)/ high goods or higfit / Lowfit / Steel Mineral (16T ?) / high goods or higfit / Steel Mineral (16T ?) / unidentified something / van / Many steel mineral wagons.

Beaten too it by Clive. I would add that in the same train (class H) is an LNER 5 plank Highfit, a BR Conflat and an LNER 9' wb unfitted van. The wagon at the head in the last photo is a BR Tube (Longfit). Great post though, I love a Banana.

Good evening Tony, a fascinating Beasty in itself, how will you do the corners of the firebox?

Good evening Steve, except on the Wartime LMS plywood vans, were the upright was like the later BR version. This is example is a Dapol body with backdated Parkside BR fruit van sides, on the Parkside LMS clasp brake shoe chassis.

Thanks, I don't think that I have encountered the Airfix van in the flesh.

You've got to watch that Tony guy though, he's the master of spin.

Afternoon John, the livery is prototypical but not on that van*. What am I saying, the van isn't real anyway, it might as well have Hogwarts castle on the side. I would like to see a model of the 'pokeing through livery' you describe, that would be a nice little project. *beaten to it.

I found a fantastic new version of the Bachmann stunted LMS van for sale, they want twenty nicker for it.

When I typed in Airfix sliding door van, I got this. But seriously, isn't the Airfix van the same as the Dapol one?

Good afternoon Tony, Never assume, that's not what I said at all, with regard to either LSGC or SR NPC's.

I'm not too familiar with the Airfix mineral wagon, they did some double door ones I believe. The 5 plank GM wagon was the same but it wouldn't be to difficult to represent the inner door if you wanted to run them empty. With sheeting, you don't see much of the body at all.

That's true but 1960 was hardly the pinnacle of railway achievements, freight and its steam era wagons were in serious decline. Personal, I shall be disappointed if Shipley Model Railway Societies 1930s Clayton layout, doesn't have a big chunk of General merchandised wagons piled high with sheeted wool.

I've liberated some of those bodies from the likes of 'Devises Sand' myself. Its like watching 'Born Free'.

Good morning Tony, I cant let you get away with that one. Ubiquitous on freight workings I think was the conversation. Those examples look amazingly like passenger trains and not untypical of the kind of timetabled NPC diagrams I was describing up thread. Anyway, they can't have been ubiquitous because they were entirely absent from my own area and era of railway model land, a fair few GWR NPC's and lots of LNER six wheelers though.

Good evening 90164, that's the retooled chassis believe it or not. Just to squeeze the last drop of blood out of the old nag.

Evening John, Its the door runner that casts the shadow. On the plywood van it is particularly prominent on both sides of the door.

It's the double shadow that may throw you off. Most sliding door vans have a singe shadow to the right, the ply vans have one both sides of the door. GWR and BR cupboard door vans tend to have the same double shadow but they also have the 'mini me' sides and hunched back roofs compared to the LMS and LNER vans.

What a gorgeous picture, there is a red colour cast but removing it doesn't significantly alter the vans, just slightly reduces the vibrancy. I will go with LMS ply, LMS, GWR, LMS, LNER, LNER ply, LMS, LMS, LMS, LNER ply?, LMS, LMS, LNER?. Then I start to get lost under the bridge. I can't see anything BR or SR.

If you build Tony a Quint D, it should be worth a Duchess or six. After LMS vans, I'm considering a sheeted general merchandise wagon campaign.

They look very familiar trains, very convincing. I'm sure I've seen them, even if I haven't. My only criticism is vans number two and four behind the Stanier mogul are the stunted LMS vans we were just discussing. I include my usual photo of LMS and LNER van roof profiles that shows how tall the LM vans were to the eves. Great shot though.

Good morning John, Bachmann's current version of the stunted LMS van, is a good contender for worst rip off being sold to the Railway modeler. The Dapol version is much better, usable but still a little short. I have resided a few to produced other diagrams and sort out the end profile on the Parkside Fruit van. Oh the irony, that the tallest to the eves of all the 13 ton vans seen on Britain's railways, is the shortest in RTR form. It deserves a special place in the pantheon of model railway dysfunctionality, alongside long wheelbase 24 ton hoppers and short wheelbase Horseboxes. The former Ratio kit is still the best LMS van of those readily available. The Cambrian kits need a little more work, the range also covers fitted and piped versions, not just the unfitted variants, though you need to supply your own vac gear and pipes. Number one for worst van currently on sale for lots of dosh? https://oliviastrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/147126643337803A1.jpg

Good evening Martin, I've seen the 3d hopper, an essential piece if your planning an Iron ore train. I hope the early BR sliding door van is not too similar to the original mainline model, the later has rather funny doors and is rather stunted, like a tent pole hammered into the ground.

Good Evening Bu, yes, I'm awaiting the results of the PCR test, Christmas got in the way. I started with symptoms on Thursday morning, there was little I could do two days before Christmas day. The lateral flow test might be a bit hit and miss with this variant, the NHS said PCR. The period between infection and symptoms is about two or three days and the symptoms are all over with in four days. The latest thinking from excellent Dr John Campbell is this variant is acting so fast that it is out competing the common cold and everything is happening so quickly we are all going to get it in a very short period of time. There's no point worrying about it, the symptoms are mild so just get it out of the way and go shopping. One thing I forgot to mention was the percentage of unfitted to fitted stock. The former greatly outnumbered the latter in 1950 and most fitted wagons belonged to the LNER. That proportion would change somewhat by 1955. It being hard to successfully represent both time periods on one layout.