mac1960

Thanks everyone and I managed to speak with the gentleman who made them and he has old BR S&T diagrams for the area and I have 4 Red signals as required. Thanks for all the comments and help. Cheers Mac

Well I checked with the gentleman who made the signals who has a collection of BR track and signal plans which included Horton fortunately so I have the correct 4nr Red Home / Starting signals and I already had the ground signals required so all is good. Thank you all for the help with this. Back to chasing German Grass and painting Sheep!! Cheers Mac

Stephen Freeman Thank you for the information I will see what I can find. Cheers Mac

Beast660666 Any photos of the semaphores would be appreciated, thank you. Cheers Mac

Beast66066 Thank you for the picture, much appreciated. Cheers Mac

5BarVT Thank you for coming back to me and explaining the signalling, much appreciated. Cheers Mac

I’m trying to find out about the signals at Horton on the S&C as we are in the process of building an N gauge layout with the same track plan. You can see it on the S&C layout forum on here. However we are trying to work out Distant and Home positioning for them. I just wondered if someone on here could help in this regard. Cheers Mac

Well a little update as we have started playing around with signals although these will not be fitted until the model is being erected at my home as they are too delicate to fit before hand. We will fit the ground signals as they ae more robust however we have a question to ask. Neither myself or Richard are signal experts and are a little confused with the attached plan for the signals that were at Horton. The one causing most confusion is the second one on the way towards Blea Moor. There is a distant off the plan, then we have the signal adjacent to the sidings which from observation of old video evidence appears to be a Red starter signal. What signal would be the next one after this beyond the station platform as that would also be a starter we believe ? Going towards Settle we have a Distant off the plan then what we assume to be another Starter which we can not fit in and then we assume another starter. If anybody knows or even has old photos or can tell me what these would be it would be most helpful. Cheers Mac

Well as you can see below a little more progress on Horton with construction underway on the last slew bridge. We are awaiting a cold snap to complete the last buildings and bridges as the room in which the model is in gets a little cool during frosty weather. The grass required is on route from Germany as well. We have also started to look at how we do the back scene, and to this end we had a prolonged discussion and experimentation with hill profiles of the surrounding hills chiefly this being Pen-y- Gent, and have decided to reduce the height of the back scene boards as we have realized we do not need the height we currently, have which will aid in a number of ways in the installation and indeed construction of the layout when in the room it is to reside in. Also we are looking at reducing the height by around 15cm or 6inches of the whole layout, as this will aid in track cleaning and the inevitable derailments. You can see what we have been doing with the back scene hill profiles below. This really where Richards fine Art degree comes to the fore, as his use of tone and perspective are truly excellent, which those who have seen the back scene on Millsbridge and Staly Vegas can testify to, as you can see on the photos of those layouts back up this thread away. Anyway its New Years Eve so jobs to do as dinner party to cook for, but may I wish all of you a Happy and Healthy and Prosperous New Year , and Horton should be "home" by the summer at least.👍 Cheers Mac

The lead truck looks like Leyland Bison I think, though not an expert, but I was around at the time and have vague memories of the look. I sent it to a neighbour who owned a trucking company at the time, and he confirmed I was probably correct, though he did say they were had poor engines, he used Scania back then and indeed from then until he sold the business. Cheers

I have really enjoyed reading and looking at the photos of your model, and indeed those of the actual place. You have captured the feel of the place, and the coal yards really well. I model in N Gauge (currently Horton on the S&C ) and I am trying to capture that same feeling with that as well. Well done. My own connection with the area was nearly running into an 08 on the crossing in the early 90,s, as I honestly did not know the place existed, and was more than a little surprised to find an 08 rumbling out from behind the bridge support without a banksmen when driving down from the Denby Dale Road !! As an aside I also remember the barges that ran up to Ravensthorpe Power Station, I think until the early 70,s when the power station shut, which you would see from the train to and from Leeds, as the off loading point was really in the middle of know where between the Leeds and Wakefield lines. There were also some concrete coal hoppers in Huddersfield at the Aspley Basin (now Aspley Marina ) where the Broad and Narrow canals met. I remember them as a boy, so they were used into the 1960,s and did not look massively old. They were demolished when the Marina was set up in the 80,s. A friend's father bought one of the Hargreaves barges, I believe and was going to convert it into a bar and it was brought up to Mirfield for the work to be done, but he moved and I dont know if the project was completed. You mentioned further back about iconic Coal road trucks in in West Yorkshire at the time, and the other name I remember was Shaw Fuels which was owned by the Sykes Family who did Coal originally, but moved into Oil and indeed Petrol in the 70,s and their trucks were deep Blue with Gold lettering and usually 8 wheeled Atkinsons. The other very iconic commercial vehicle you could see all over West Yorkshire back then was Ripponden Carriers in the Blue and Cream livery and 16ton Albion, which I believe is available as a model. Anyway a very interesting project, which I have enjoyed reading about, and look forward to seeing the ongoing works. Cheers Mac

Will Thank you for your kind comments with regards Horton, and indeed those with regards to the railway in the landscape, which is what we are trying to achieve and emphasis when using the different scales to give the model greater perspective. It was a bit of a gamble, but we do feel that it has worked up to press anyway. Interestingly we did think of going up the line a little at one stage and modelling the line around Selside with just the signal box and surrounding farm and houses, which would have more fields and even less track and electronics but decided to stay with Horton. I know Richard, who does the scenic work has a sneaking aspiration to do part of the Waverly route again with just double track or maybe just a loop, although the next club layout he is going to be involved in which will be on the Model Railway show circuit will be Canernarfon on the North Wales line. They currently have Millsbridge on the circuit, and it is worth a look if it comes to a show in your area, or have a look on U Tube. Thanks once again for the comments. Cheers Mac

Reorte Thank you for the observation and indeed kind comments. It’s a bit of a supply chain issue ( I am very used to this in 1 to 1 scale and getting worse) , but that product from Germany is really excellent, and we both have said we will wait, what ever time is required. I have to say as well it is cheaper in real terms as a far better product in qty and quality, just get your qty, and indeed description correct. There are big differences between late , early fall and indeed winter grasses, and Miniature do this season wise . They do Spring In the same way and indeed Summer and the ability to do this is wonderful for modelling it does make a difference. Cheers Mac

Well I have returned from Africa and managed to call down to see Horton and indeed Richard yesterday. He has made further progress with the laying of grass on the upper fields as you can see from the sectional photos shown in the pictures below. Also the track has had a further coat of weathering . There is a possibility that we may need another pack of Mininature Grass unfortunately which will mean a further order from Germany, but we will see how we get on. I dropped down some buffers and AWAS Magnets as well as the iconic Horton railway sign board done for us by Sankey Signs, so we will see how this looks. You will be looking at this from a scale 1/4mile so dont expect to be able to read it !! My 8F 48773 from TMC has yet to show up, but work has apparently been completed in the renumbering / Yellow stripe etc and weathering, so it maybe with us pre Christmas's, but we will see. We now are approaching Christmas, and looking back over this blog over the years, it is rather nice to report on some quite extensive progress, rather than have to type further apologies in connection with progress on Horton and or a line of excuse's. So at the risk of jinxing things, Horton, Work, Health and indeed life are all going pretty well, so fingers crossed for 2024 when Horton might just becoming home ! While writing this may I take this opportunity to wish all of you who have taken the time to pop in and read my ramblings, or even just look at the photos, a very Merry Christmas, and the compliments of the Season to you and yours. Cheers Mac

Well as you can see from the attached photos the Grass Flock in the various sizes has arrived with Richard from Germany via Peterborough and he has crashed on while I am away in Africa. There is still more lairing of the upper field to do, to give it that depth of feel and distance ie Richard is not happy with it yet !! However the delay has allowed for these extra land features, lateral moraine to give it its correct term, which feature on all of the Dales valleys to some extent. We still have the barns to complete and off course another slew bridge but I have to say the model is looking very good in the photos at least. I hope to be able to be back for the coming weekend and to see it in person, and of course will get further photos. Also there has been a further addition to the Yellow Stripe locomotive stock, with the addition of Bolton sheds celebrity, and preserved 8F 48773, which sported said stripe post Sept 64 and was pictured a number of times on the S&C in our time frame. It is a renumbering and branding of a new LMS liveried 8F, which has been suitably treated to look like the photos of the time with warning flashes and new BR Crest, and heavy weathering this being undertaken by TMC near Whitby. I will send further photos when I have actually seen the layout in the flesh.

Coronach You asked after our signals in your reply, and as I had not seen them for a while, and having already lost the first 4 (a very expensive mistake) I dug them out to double check they are still here, and took the opportunity to photograph one for you. There are 4nr built for Horton, though we will probably only need 3nr, with two on the downside and probably 1nr on the up. The idea is to position two close to the bridge either end of the viewing area probably with the iconic painted White stone behind, which was done to aid train crews vision of the arm in low light conditions, and seen in many photographs of Dent station and bridge over the years. There were no electric signal lights in the area of the station at the time of our model, with the nearest being a mile or so south of the station, and indeed the semaphores may still have have had oil lights at the time, I am not sure.

Just a quick update to say we have been able to obtain the much needed MiniNature grass through the New Modelers Shop in Peterborough, who have very kindly said they would put in a special order with the German company for the required grass in the scales required. They do not do the Grass normally but are looking into it in future but they said they would order it for us which was very kind. The order was placed yesterday, and subject to Customs, they expect to receive the order by the end of next week, and should ship it out straight away so it will be with us w/c 27/11, which is really great, as we were concerned about the delay this product or rather lack of it was causing. I have to say that all the companies and individuals who have supplied or constructed items for Horton have been delightful to deal with, and very accommodating. Its a pity in my one to one real world of construction there was not a bit more of the same attitude !! As I am away, these materials will go straight to Richard, who is eagerly awaiting its arrival, so he can get on with the large upper fields in my absence. If there is further progress pending my departure I will update of course.

What are they going to do with Mk 5 coaches as I am told they are the most comfortable on Trans Pennine route, but no diesel no go, so what are they going to do with them or replace locomotive with ?

I really like your work on this, it captuers the feel really well. There are 4 lines I have a soft spot other than yours, these being the GC, and the Waverly and SC. I would like too do models of them all, but probably left it too late. Cheers Mr Mac

Well the only train I take on a regular basis, as with Mrs Mac, is Wakefield to Kings Cross and the service has gone down all the time we have been travelling, but with prices going up all the time. Both lucky to turn left, but it is a shadow of what it was . Both used Great Central, but neither a patch on originally BR or GNER with significantly higher prices even with inflation factored in. Oh and new trains very uncomfortable in comparison as well, I do not see any improvements in comfort or food or speed the latter frankly being marginal and why HS2 a White Elephant for us.

Coronach Thank you for the kind comments re Horton. You are correct in that we are about setting the layout in the landscape, which is why we went for N gauge for the actual railway, but OO closer to the viewing area in order to give the perspective which gives it a feeling of depth, or at least that is the plan. Oh and the Goods Shed will be staying ! As for the period we are modelling, it is basically set in the period from Autumn 1964 - Autumn 67 , ie any October / November in that period. It coincides with when the Yellow stripe started to appear on Jubilee and some other classes, the line started to be run down with the end of steam approaching, and I thought autumn colours would suite that end of days feeling. However as so little changed up there it really allows us to chose quite a large selection of traction. So currently we have about 6 Jubilee class, a similar number of Britannia and Class 2, 4; 5 , 8, 9, as well A1 and 4F the latter also with the Yellow stripe. Diesel traction is predominantly 45 , 46, 40, 25, with a supporting cast of 26, 17, and a lone 50 as well as two DMU sets one in Blue and one in Green which took over the local services in early 60;s. As for signals all have been constructed 4 semaphore's as per Horton, with ground signals / point leaves and will be fixed closer to completion as they risk being damaged otherwise. I lived in West Yorkshire, and was born in 1960, so I have a child hood memory of the end of steam, and was blessed with a Steam engine driving Grandfather, so my first experience of a footplate was being let onto the footplate of Bihar and Orissa at Huddersfield Station,when I was 5 years old with that Yellow Stripe quite freshly painted as I remember so the period mirrors my memories.

Well a few update photos. As you can see, the autumn foliage is coming on, and as you can just look out the window at the moment as Richard says to get it right, it helps. The barns have received their stone slate roofs, and due to the delay enforced by the German grass, we have taken the opportunity to introduce more landforms into the upper fields, as we felt they appeared a little too stark. The farm equipment arrived, and went together with out much swearing apparently, and we just need to decide where to put it. Also more sheep have arrived (OO), but the first 2mm have been temporarily placed on the far side of the tracks by one of the barns to see how they looked, and they work well. We had a discussion about vehicles, and we both feel that less is more, as there simply was not the number of vehicles back then, so you may only have a few scattered around. I have got a number of suitable 60,s cars, and indeed a Ribble coach, but these may or not make an appearance. I did pick up a very good German Wiking 2mm tractor and trailer, which though not very prototypical, is a very good model in comparison with the Oxford 2mm Ferguson etc, so we are going to get the modeling knife and paint out, to tone down its European heritage a tad ! Other than these, there will be a Red VW Beetle as a nod to the photographer Gavin Morrison, who spent a significant amounts of time chasing and photographing trains on the S&C using one. However that will probably be it, on the less is more principle, as we both dislike overly cluttered layouts, where some people seem to want to put everything they have bought into it rather than being selective, but that is our view, others will know doubt disagree. Anyway pending the Grass arrival, other large tasks can be moved along, so more work on the barns and bridges and gates, though the trees are just about right now. We are getting down to some of the finer details, so station signs have been obtained and indeed Sankey Signs have managed to do the iconic sign which existed on the real Horton in Ribblesdale Station showing the elevation and distance from London etc. They kindly did it in 3 sizes as they were guessing the size in reality from the fencing in the photo I sent. Unfortunately these still proved a little large, so I asked could we go smaller, as it really is at this viewing distance a hint of what the sign is, rather than being able to read it. They very kindly have done this, and we await receiving the revised product. I have to say they were excellent to deal with. So that is it so far, and as I am away for sometime working on 1 to 1 scale, it will probably be nearly Christmas's before there is another update.

I am trying to source some static grass from Silhouettes/ Mini nature a German manufacturer. The UK supplier has currently run out that I use. Anybody know of other suppliers ?

Well we are slowing down a little on scenic works due to not being able to source the Silhouette/ Mininature products we need . Richard really rates their products and as we started with them we will have to await UK supplier ordering from Germany, which they are not doing until after Telford show mid November, and then due to the B word, it can take 3 weeks for them to arrive. However they are worth waiting for, and we are not dropping standard after such a long design and build process. Ironically I was in Germany and called into 3 model shops, and though they had extensive stock the one’s we need were not available 🙄 Anyway Richard is at Spalding Show with Millsbridge so no more updates until the following week I am afraid, but if anybody knows another UK stockist let us know.

Can I ask if anybody has an ideas about sourcing Mininatur grass in the UK ? If you can give me overseas link that would be ok as well. Running in UK 😢😢