5BarVT

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

You must be over here now.  Either that or your sleeping has really gone to pot.

:-)

Paul.

4 hours ago, ISW said:

That's what I had to do as well. Install the fishplates as normal, then flow solder into the foot of the fishplate to affix it to the rails. Then I could cut the rails 'at' the baseboard join, cutting through the whole rail/fishplate assembly.

Interesting thought there.  I don’t want to solder the point as I have ambitions to keep them reusable as far as possible.  But care with the soldering (and it wouldn’t need much) is a possibility.

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

N gauge fishplates?

Does that mean they are same width but shorter than 00?

I have been contemplating cutting down 00 lengthwise, then running then onto a rail to open them up again.

Paul.

Sorry to hear of the electrical gremlins, hope you get it sorted.

But it’s looking good and full of Eastern Promise (well Eastern Wales Promise!).

Paul.

This is the second layout where I’ve used curved points for the throat.  It does look good.

Paul.

ONE DOWN

Cross board track done.  Still need droppers since pre fitting as well as aligning for the screw heads was in the too difficult box.  Sleepers need a touch of glue to stop them siding off.

The problem with the shorter gap is that there isn’t room for full length fishplates clear of the screwheads, but I can’t leave them off as they are what stops the rail rotating around the screw position.  Still pondering on that one but pleased the longer one has worked well.

Paul.

What era will you be running?  (I think it’s fairly defined by the signalling, but you might just squeeze in the last of the LH)

Or will it be “my layout, my stock, my Rule 1”?

Paul.

P.S. Georgemas Jn, particularly in earlier days with lots of loco movements then ‘nothing’ for hours was something I considered as a layout back in mid 80s.  Never got anywhere!

21 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

Thank you for the clarification and is as I thought, personally I would really avoid this method of working as mistakes are far too easy to make

Running to and fro though the automatic area was for train testing, never happened during ‘operation’.  Leaving the Train ID in the block stopped other trains using it, when it was needed for auto running, shunting had to stop.  So, in effect, the train id in the block was used as a form of protection.

No worse that running two trains on a non automated layout, and probably a bit better!

Paul.

So!

Going right back to Paul’s initial operational requirements, can this be done in iTrain:

Assumptions and Caveats
Track and points beyond the red lines is unknown to iTrain.

Feedbacks are only provided in blocks, 2 in the loops as stopping position may be tight, 1 for platform, arrive and depart blocks.

Manual operation uses dcc handset to operate points. Procedural limitation not to operate any points on the ‘circuit’ from DCC handset during Auto running.

Next button isn’t used (yet!).
Operations

Manually run six trains out and position in the Up and Down loops.

Insert train ID into each block.

Manually run another train into the station sidings.

Operate Man/Auto (soft) switch to Auto

Press ‘Start’ to initiate a sequence of automatic runs on both circuits, continuing until Man/Auto returned to Man, which halts the moving trains when they next return to the loop.  (Could be an ABC ABC order of trains, or start all three and let them ‘fight it out’ who goes when operation.)

While that is happening, shunting takes place in the station yard and/or in the layout extension not shown.

Once back in Man, train(s) in the loops are swapped and the train in the sidings is replaced by another.

From what I’ve read, I think iTrain should be able to do that and it only involves 16 feedbacks.

Am I right, or a meringue?

NB This is a purely technical question about the capabilities of iTrain to achieve the operational requirement given the specified assumptions and caveats.

Neither the validity of the assumptions and caveats or the limitations of the operational requirement is up for discussion (yet, be patient!).

I think the sequence of automatic trains is managed by train routes with actions triggering the next train (or all three on each line running simultaneously).  I think track routes could be used for the manual routing of trains, but I’m aware of Paul’s screen size etc limitations.

Many thanks iTrain experts,

Paul.

1 hour ago, Andymsa said:

the only way I can see the transition between non detected areas and detected areas is manual input and removal of the train ID, if this is the case although feasible is rather a messy method as it would require a close eye to be kept on things. Or did you use a different method and I’m very familiar with TC

Yes, the train ID got left in the last block.  If I wanted to use the block for other things I deleted and reinstated.  Otherwise, it just stayed there while I shunted about ‘off stage’.

Haven’t got a working layout at present so I can’t check this in practice, not is it (easily) simulatable, but think I was able to run unidentified trains backwards and forwards through the detected areas without upsetting TC.  (I wasn’t running anything automatically so no conflict protection was required.)

Paul.

1 hour ago, Andymsa said:

 install detection on all the layout to achieve what you wanted because even if your not running the whole layout automatically the software still needs to know what happing elsewhere and for train tracking to work in the automated area,

Sorry, I don’t think that’s true.  It’s certainly not true for the software I use as part of my previous layout didn’t have train detection.  That part wasn’t used automatically and it didn’t prevent automatic operation over the part of the layout that did have train detection.

Its how you interface it that matters (its always the interfaces!).

Nothing that I’ve read/seen so far about iTrain indicates that it can’t be interfaced in a similar way.
No  need to confirm or deny just yet as I’m working up a diagram of what I think was Paul’s simplest requirement.  I’ll post that later with relevant questions.

Thanks all,

T’other Paul.

17 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Cross board tracks next on the list.

Thought I’d do the easy one first.

It wasn’t!

I’ll try the next on the list to see how I get on.

Paul.

PROGRESS MEANS PHOTOS

12B and 13B laid in.  Cross board tracks next on the list.

Paul.

We shall wait patiently but with anticipation!

Paul.

Can you add a photo, or link to the eBay entry so that we have a better idea what you’ve got?

Paul.

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

Gentlemen, a discussion on the merits of product A v product B does not help the discussion, nor will it enlighten people.

 

Both of the major commercial products will satisfy the requirements that have been stated.

Sorry Iain, it wasn’t a discussion about merits.  It was to find out what iTrain can do because the publicly available information that I can access doesn’t go into sufficient detail.

Paul.

18 minutes ago, ITG said:

A (manually driven) loco is marshalling wagons across 3 sidings, and using a loop (B) off the main line to order them, by ongoing uncoupling/running round etc. Two (automated ) trains are using the main line, and one makes an automated stop in loop A (parallel to loop B). This automatically forces the second train to take loop B, so shunting must stop, and indeed clear loop B (or stop*) If the shunting loco is continually running to and from the 3 sidings (with no sensors), iTrain will regularly be ‘surprised ‘ by this intrusion, as it doesn’t know where the shunter is until it hits loop B, by which time the second main line train is heading for loop B. What iTrain does is reserve blocks ahead for routes, and so can manage potential conflicts, buts it’s effectiveness to do so will be much weakened by locos arriving into blocks  if it doesn’t know where they’ve come from or going to. And if there’s no sensors, that info to enable that calculation will be missing.

In TC that is trivial to manage.  It has the concept of a shunting zone, which would lock out loop B to automatic running whether there was a train there or not. I don’t know if iTrain is clever enough to do this.

On our club layout using an ancient version of TC we have manual operation in the sidings and a lockout that prevents routes being set in or out when the lockout is operated.  If you can put conditions in iTrain routes and test for routes set as a condition in the lockout then that could be applied easily too.  Or a condition on the use of the loop B block.  Surely iTrain can do something as basic as this?

Paul.

6 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Ah yes! - you had me worried for a while.

That is an awful lot of signals you are going to need to add - do you plan to make these or buy them?

Andy

Make by bodging kits.

The easiest will be the two way shunt signals.  I have some Eckon (or Berko, whichever are kits rather than made up) three aspect round topped heads that I will remove the backboard from and fit GRG LEDs in place of the supplied RYG.

I have ideas for what I need to do for the main signals, and bits to try, but it’s all theory and no practice at the moment.

Paul.

13 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

you can only arrive at the two long platforms although you can depart from the bay.

17 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

So does this mean carriages have to be shunted across to the bay before they can be re-used? Or do they all just leave as empty coaching stock - I must admit to being mystified by a station with such nice long platforms that can only take inbound traffic. I rather imagine a black hole for stock forming!

Andy

Isn’t communication fun!  I knew what I meant, but I can see exactly how you have interpreted it differently. :-)

Here’s the current signalling plan which shows it better.
 

Arriving trains on the Main can only access the two long platforms, although departures to the Main can be made from all three.  The branch can only access the bay and one long platform.

The bay will mainly be used for parcels vans, though there are a couple of DMU departures that need to shunt in there to release space on the other platforms.

Paul.

2 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Do you have the ability during export of the BMP to increase the resolution - many codes allow you to bump up the dots per inch.

Yes.  I’m already getting a “big file” warning when I export.  Current setting is 10k, not sure over what distance (or area), fairly sure it’s not d.p.i.  May be some experimentation later today.

Paul.

8 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Paul

 

I save my drawings in MS Paint as pngs, no colour problems.

As far as I can tell I can only export the plan as a .bmp.  Then saved as jpeg once I’ve finished adulterating it.  It’s the way the conversion to .bmp happens that causes the problem.

Paul.

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I'll be in the demo area too, although whether I'm actually demoing or just talking b0ll0cks remains to be seen...

I’m aiming to assist you with the latter.

Paul.

1 hour ago, dibateg said:

The capabilities of the Ersa soldering iron are well demonstarted by it's abilty to solder the brass bar. Just awaiting the lamps and finishing off.

And using bar won’t half give some strength!

Paul.

9 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Paul that is looking fun and helps set all in perspective. I assume it is a through station and is that some form of branch bay platform? The through platforms look nice and long too.

I assume it will in the end have full working signalling.

Andy

The real station was a through station.  Mine isn’t.  I have a convoluted back story to justify!

Yes a branch bay.  Part of the fun is that you can only arrive at the two long platforms although you can depart from the bay.  The long platforms will take 2+6 and each half of the split platform will take a three car DMU.

Paul.

I’ve been thinking about how to get the layout built with future proofing in mind.  Have you any thoughts on which feedback input module you would use, or not yet?

Paul.

On 28/10/2023 at 21:39, Andy Keane said:

Paul, Have you put up a track plan recently - I am losing track of how this all joins together.

This is Heath Town station on the middle level.  The points I have just laid are shown in brown.

I was going to colour all the track in various shades, but the bit map export was “leaky” so the “fill” command went everywhere.  I had to insert pixels in black to join up the lines before colouring the inside.

Paul.