5BarVT

I've also ordered some more Brutes today for the Train Spotters to sit on at KM.

Brutes were too low. GPO trolleys for comfort.

Paul.

P.S. Glad you’re back and feeling better. Mind you, I could tell from Clive’s thread that you were bored! (Poor Clive.)

Actually it looks to me like the signals are set for the Class 22 and the train in platform 7, and that 34007 has passed a signal at danger.

Agreed, except that a spam going TO Exeter would be leaving from the other end of the station!

Paul.

Bob,

Over 45 years ago (!) I used GEM mercontrol using the individual lever and more recently I have used a similar method with a H&M motor that I couldn’t fit in the right place. In each case I just bent the end of the wire through 90 degrees and put it up through the hole in the centre of the Peco tiebar. The cork stops the wire dropping out. (Lift the point slightly and be patient and persistent ‘til the wire goes in.) I didn’t use cranks as the mercontrol system can be shaped round corners as long as they are not too sharp (experiment to try). With the lever frame, you will probably need some throw reduction - usually by an omega loop. They used to be available separately (mine were brass and I’m not sure if they soldered to the control wire) or whether the control wire itself could be bent to that shape.

Paul.

Opinions please..... Top or bottom?

Bottom plus for looks. The plus is to shorter the drive stretcher: cut off the dimpled end level with the outside of the rail (with the switch rail ‘open’ that side). It’s what I will be doing (but haven’t done yet).

Paul.

And best wishes from me too.

Paul.

in the 80's it was just the Waistcoat, and pretty grubby at that from what I remember.

Apart from p-way in the summer when it was the waistcoat worn as shorts and very faded.

Paul.

Much the same as bridges (which may be easier to find photos): if there is room between the Sleeper ends and the abutment/tunnel wall the cable troughing will continue through hard up against the brickwork, if not, then the cables will go on hangars attached to the wall face.

Paul.

Interesting use of a Standard Route Indicator with a Ground Position Light, I haven't seen that before, it's technically banned under standards.

Bit behind in my reading as I don't always frequent this area of the forum. Sort of hinted at in some of the following posts: it's not the size of the tin box that matters, it's what shines out of it. So an SI sized box displaying MI sized indications is fully compliant with NR standards and that can only be known if a photo of the signal off is available. Number of displays required may have driven a larger box but still with MIs.

Paul.

.In systems where the shunter shuts it in it's up to them to confirm the train is in and complete before giving the ground frame release back to the Signalbox.

 

 

strangest ‘single line’ I work along is the line from Aylesbury to Claydon, you pick up an annetts key token from the machine in Aylesbury loop and head on your way however when you get to Calvert it’s not unusual to see 2 more trains/locos sat in the sidings there!

From before the days of Aylesbury Vale Parkway, shut inside with the shunter confirming train complete and out of the token section does require the shunter to understand how the system works. Not a problem 40 years ago (in my opinion) but not as reliable these days - see RAIB report for shunter returning token with train still sat on single line!

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/two-trains-in-the-same-section-at-aylesbury

Paul.

Indeed I was. I would have also said that they were ‘flat’, however thinking back, the connection into the Depot at the KEB end was up a short steep bank where as at Gateshead E there was a flat crossing of the West Curve. I also remember that walking along the bank opposite the Depot the drop got larger as you went West. Since then I have discovered that sidings would usually be laid flat, so I assume that a falling gradient on the main lines is what was happening.

A good place for seeing what was lined up outside, no chance of ever getting in!

Paul.

Like the bus on the bridge. Just as I remember.

You could always take more even more inspiration from Gateshead where the former sidings opposite the depot started at track level and 'rose' along the length of the depot area with a retaining wall down to the tracks. (Or more probably, the tracks fell away towards KEB Jn and the sidings and depot were level.)

Looking forwards to whatever you decide.

Paul.

I should be put on the naughty step for my comment: it wasn’t as innocent as I made out! You’re dead right for Porthmellyn Road as your siding is long enough to leave stock in. At Par (from what I can see on the reduced pdf) there isn’t a trap so nothing can be left in the spur - my take is that the spur would be to get a loco between the Branch and the Loop without blocking the Up Main (in the days before Auto trailers and DMUs). I guess there would be a box instruction to cover leaving the empty before making a move to/from the Mains, not quite sure how the signalman could see though. Looking in more detail at the pdf, I don’t think the disc does apply to the toes in the branch to main connection as there might be a possibility of leaving a train in the wrong place inadvertently so going right out behind 15 shunt on the UM would be required for anything too long for the siding. Must get round to joining SRS to get access to the full copies.

Happy Christmas by the way!

Paul.

I love that ground disc in the picture of the pannier - if somebody did that on a model railway (hint) they'd get a right telling off from some folk (not a hint).

What's wrong with it? It's at the toes of the points to which it refers (both sets presumably). (Says he, trying to act all innocent like!)

Paul.

Congratulations.

Paul.

The second one is a brilliant example for a 'hidden' continuous run.

Many thanks for posting.

Paul.

Still a bit of three track between Rugby and Nuneaton: Brinklow to Attleborough and it includes the bit with the canal adjacent to the line.

Go for it!

Paul.

So I have priced up the signals

Absolute aspects. £1150

Cr signals £560

Wow. Think I’ll be scouting EBay !!!

Stevie,

As others have said, as client you are discovering that signals are expensive! :-0

So having discovered that what you thought you might like is more than you can afford let’s see what we can do to help.

First: you said a long way back that you wanted modern liveries - a layout with modern trains soesnt have to have modern signalling (can do but doesn’t have to). Oxford until very recently is/was early ‘70s signalling. I can remove some signals that way.

Second: not all signals have to be visible, just pretend that they are off scene or hidden.

Third: by defining the operating methods, some signals can be replaced with stop boards.

Fourth: all spread out on Simon’s plan the signals look OK (plan is fine from that respect), but your layout has much shorter distances in some places so a reduction of signals will actually look better.

And last: start small and add as finance permits - there are legitimate intermediate states that will be perfectly prototypical.

 

Let’s start with the depot: you don’t need any of the OD signals. I know you said a Depot system would be nice - as an intermediate stage you could just have the ‘indicators’ protecting the shed doors (OD 6/8/10/12). All the Depot points would be hand points and to prevent accidents to the tanks on the spur you could say that the point allowing access is locked with a point clip except when tanks are put in there or removed. A ‘STOP Await Instructions’ Board at the toes of the fuel road points is all the signalling needed.

 

OE102 could be assumed to be off scene in the fiddle yard. OE118 can be hidden round the corner and in the tunnel. Probably a bit of a push to say OE120/2 would be hidden, but careful extension of view blockers could achieve that.

 

OE105 can be moved back to where OE201 is then sports a sub signal to go into the Depot. (OE200 remains for Depot exit). Make Goods Loop 2 a siding and 309 hand points, make OE113/5 stop boards and put a shunt signal on the toes of 308A (3 route indications, but they don’t have to be working). That removes the indicator from OE204 and the PLJI and route indicator from OE108. OE107 does not need a PLJI as there is only one route from the signal (to DM) and trains are starting from rest. OE122 becomes a shunt signal.

 

 

There is an even more minimalist solution but I don’t think that is what you want. Make all the sidings hand points and provide shunt signals at 302A, opposite 306B, 306A, and clear of 311 points (with one of the traps moved to be 311B).

 

Price that up and see if you like the cost savings! And it will still be prototypical.

 

Critical comments from the client, the designer, and other observers awaited! ;-)

Paul.

Yes, I'm not sure on the double slip numbering, I couldn't find a nice example of numbering quickly, so I just went by Paul's numbering in post #47, which was slightly confusing!

I can be: just ‘cos I know what mean doesn’t mean everyone else will!

Apologies for being absent while discussions proceeded. What is shown on Simon’s v3 isn’t quite what I meant. Think of a peco double slip - the four switch rails at each end of the slip move together so one end will have one number and the other end a separate number (either of which may be shared with another point end if it forms part of a crossover). Simon now has access to an example through the professional route.

Paul.

Our best hit was an uncharted gas main.

In the autumn of 1975 the Oxford Signalling Techs told me that the mole plough had found an unmarked 6" water main at Islip. They wondered if there had been watering facilities there at one point but it seemed a bit unlikely.

Paul.

32nd December?What planet are you on?

Same one as me - I thought everyone knew it's the day before the 33rd.

Paul.

I believe, having overheard a massive row between a driver and a guard once, that the rule book forbids the propelling of loaded passenger vehicles.

Certainly permitted if you are (supposedly) asleep. Caledonian sleeper Edinburgh portion is propelled onto the back of the Glasgow portion at Carstairs. Similar goings on at Edinburgh with the highland sleeper.

Paul.

Sadly Whitley Bay is a shadow of its former self and Spanish City is no more.

Paul.

Trains Seventy-One Annual, which my parent bought for me for Christmas 1970...  It had three articles about the last days of steam, including a lovely Shap-based photo essay by Ivo Peters.

Snap! 15/- decimal price 75p it says inside. Not my first, I also have Locospotters Annual 1965, 66 and 67.

Paul.

That's my morning gone....

What's really special is that you can change the opacity of the overlay to show a current map underneath and now you can also see how the area has changed and where the railway used to go.  Off to Alexandra Palace now.....

It's a brilliant site isn't it. I have 'used up' many hours following old railways. I once gave the website details to a SouthEastern driver manager and the next day he said 'I got nothing done last night'.

Happy wanderings,

Paul.

Very nice, very relaxing. Thanks.

Nothing wrong with the soundtrack other than the film is old world not new!

Paul.