Metropolitan H

Emma, Thank you very much, that is a very useful photograph - just what I needed. Now to lay plans to get some appropriate signal heads made by rapid prototyping / 3D printing means to fit 3mm LEDs. Kevin, To answer your questions look at www.harsig.org/Metropolitan.htm - particularly the 1926 / 1956 Widened Lines .pdf file. You will see that all the Met and Widened lines signalling was done from one 44 lever signal box - Box F - and that similar arrangements prevailed at Aldersgate / Barbican and the other stations. This is getting ever more interesting. I hope I can do it all justice. Regards Chris H

Kevin, Thanks for the links. I will have to buy the ICE paper - unless you know of another way? - but it looks to be answering my questions and worth reading, As indicated elsewhere I thought you were aware of the change of area, which came with the insertion of the terminal road and working name change from "Dog Lane" to "City Road". There were a number of factors that drove the change: - As the available space is to put it mildly "a bit tight" - equivalent to 6ft x 4ft in OO - and I want a double track circle line, a very "Inner" urban scenario works better for the scenic (?) treatment. - The goods sidings are sort of based on Vine Street - but not as expansive. - The terminal road ideas come from a sort of amalgam of Moorgate and Liverpool Street (Met). - The N2 / N7 and quad-art set workings into Met territory were off the GN lines - not the GC. I know this means I shouldn't run any Met steam locos bigger than an E class 0-4-4T or F class 0-6-2T, but Rule 1 applies and I will be happy to ensure clearances will accept a H 4-4-4T and K 2-6-4T or any other loco I fancy. As others will have noted I'm already mixing periods with the M-V Bo-Bos and a British Westinghouse "Camelback Bo-Bo running together. So niceties about the 1925-30 period and signal types are a bit nominal - but while this is all coarse scale O "Retro" style modelling it did cross my mind that I ought to get the signals "Sort of right". When there is more progress I might start a new topic stream - if there is any interest. For the moment this is my statement of intent. Regards Chris H P.S. - I would happily run a "S" Stock train alongside the B-W loco if the opportunity comes along. But that is probably very long-term wishful thinking, did you see that pink animal fly-past? CH

L49, Thanks for the tips. I will get a copy of the Bancroft and Talbot book and try to work my way through the District Dave site. Lord of Narnia, Tinplate Dreadnoughts are available - see attached - but Saloon stock will have to wait a while, till I get the layout running properly. This is very much retro-modelling for fun, so don't expect too much. Regards Chris H

Gentlefolk, I'm currently building a coarse scale O gauge layout based on Met Railway practice east of Baker St towards Aldgate with an approximate dateline 1925 - 1930. It has occurred to me that I need to think carefully about the types of signals in use and their placing. I've seen a 1926 diagram that shows colour-light signals used in the Kings Cross to Liverpool St area, but I can find no direct history of the chronology of the signal types used on the Met? - Can anyone advise: - A good write up of Met Railway signalling practice and types upto 1933? - When and where the Met first adopted colour-light signals in place of Saxby and Farmer semaphore types? Regards Chris H

Not when you are examining the inside of the engine room and the owners representative decides to fire it up without warning us first. Sounded like a cement mixer full of big nuts and bolts and it hurt - took a weak for my ears to recover and then not properly. The smoke in the shed was eye wateringly awful too. However, we did give an acceptance to work on one engine at the forthcoming Ruislip Depot (LT) Open day - that would be circa 199X (when X is small). Regards Chris H

Sir, I find the photo in post 10602 fascinating regarding the end of platform detailing - do you have a date for the picture? - I'm assuming it is mid 1950s and that the lamp pole (with shackle attached), the other stayed post and the location cabinet are yet to be added to your marvellous model. Regards Chris H

Another fascinating early line - to the north of P'boro - was "Lord Willoughby's Railway". It might help with the IOE&MR story, or just confuse matters. Regards Chris H

Sounds like a reasonable excuse. You will be pleased to know real progress towards getting my space habitable again has been made - as well as the trip to Ally-Pally on Saturday. Regards Chris H

K - I thought Edwardian was suffering from the Flu - like wot you had - not the plague? Edwardian - I hope you recover soon. Regards Chris H

Any progress this week? Regards Chris H

Interesting - It is very like the modern "Spratt & Winkle" couplers, but working the other way round. On the S & W couplers the hook is arranged to be pulled down by a magnet and the loop is fixed - they work well. Regards Chris H

That Trix "Meteor" train looks very like one of the 1950s / 60s "TEE" (Trans Europe Express) diesel set - possibly the Dutch (NS) ones. Regards Chris H

Tsk! Tsk! - I had two train playing days in a row - much to my surprise. I now have some Slater's wheels for you - amongst other things. Regards Chris H

I like all three, as they tell a complete story. Is it my imagination or are the little people moving around on the platforms between photos? Regards Chris H

"Yellow" actuates the lamp. Do I get a prize? Regards Chris H

I can second that. It does help if you can develop selective deafness and have a modelling workshop - with lockable door - at the end of the garden. Chris H

Edwardian, Since I first commented on the two-tone green effort, I have looked more closely at your pictures and the Elettren catalogue pictures. I now believe your coach to be one of the Elettren ones, with the middle vertical window bars removed between each close spaced pair. Interesting. My suggestion re. lifting the whole body with a packer still stands - but first I think you need some paint stripper. Thanks for posting the further pictures of your fleet of four-wheelers. Something struck me as slightly odd regarding the Wisbech and Upwell coach, so I went looking at drawings and photos of the real ones - which confirmed my suspicion. Sorry to be a nuisance, but on your W&U coach the body headstocks / bufferbeams are set too low - on the real ones the buffer beam / buffers sit just above the floor level, while yours are fitted so the top edge is at floor level. The extension bracket bits on the underside of the W&U coach buffer stocks were in reality to transfer the higher level buffing forces down into the ends of the underframe longitudes - otherwise one heavy shunt would split the bufferbeam from the u/frame at floor level. If the buffer beams were set at the right height it would very neatly match the height of the other two four wheelers in your pictures. I still think the ideas are good and like the green / white coach. Keep at it. Regards Chris H P.S. - I've got a D&S 7mm scale kit for one each of the W&U four-wheel and bogie coaches - still awaiting build many years after acquistition. P.P.S. - The W&U coach wheel diameter was small 2ft 6in - 2ft 8in - so you want 10mm - 10.5mm diameter wheels in 4mm scale - try "Low-Mac" wagon wheels) CH

If it were me contemplating a rebuild of the bogie (made by "Pocher" ?), I would look very closely at the possibility of lifting the whole body - on a packing piece - above the underframe / floor unit, to bring the cantrail and waist rails to the same height as those on the four wheeler. The edges of the packer could be left plain and slightly proud to represent the bottom body-side rail, or finished flush with the bottom of the match-boarding with the joint grooves extended down across the packer edges. I would not then see any need to change the window apertures / glazing bars. Hope that makes sense. Regards Chris H

K, I note the aluminium suggestion and will consider, In the meantime I was thinking 6mm ply deck and sides - cut by the supplier into good square and regular strips - with good quality strip-wood handles. Sides will be deep enough to prevent vehicles diving off a cassette, but low enough to not impede railing / coupling access. I'll do sketches over the w/e. Regards Chris H

Don't forget the Bideford, Westward Ho! and Appledore Railway (The only UK railway to include an "!" in its title). They had some rather nice open balcony bogie coaches - but they also had centre buffer couplers and side-skirts on their Hunslet 2-4-2T locos, there was no physical connection to any other railway and a certain amount of roadside / on road running. Regarding the WC&PR coaches, Les Darbyshire published a drawing in the late lamented MRN magazine back in the 1960s / 70s as part of the series of Stephens lines drawings. Regards Chris H

K, "Paltry" goes well. An alternative might be "Brick Lane" - in recognition of all the surrounding walls. Or you could go grand, either Spitalfields, Norton Folgate or Tobacco Dock, a small layout might deserve a large running in board! Perhaps we might discuss the FY ideas and length of siding on Saturday at the local show. Regards CH

K That looks even better as it brings in the "full-frontal" opportunity and makes room for a sector plate FY. Question 1 - Why is the throat turnout quite so far from the FY end? - If it came a little further you might just get three bogie coaches in. Question 2 - What will you do with the other Y turnout? Question 3 - have you thought of a further RH turnout to give a siding - locos for the use of - alongside the release road? Regards Chris H

Clive, It was me that put up the posts regarding my paternal Grandfather - Arthur Alexander Holmes. To put a bit more of a human aspect on the history Grandfather is seen below, with Pattie the family dog, by the gates to Peterborough Minster circa 1950. The key points were that the signalman on duty was in deep shock, so Granfather took over the working of Westwood Box till the end of the shift. That way they got traffic moving again - including using the signalled routes through New England yard, normally not used by passenger moves. Regards Chris H

K, Not so sure about the Chatham side, but from the list of slithery things depicted the poster is definitely upside down for display anywhere in the British Isles. Regards CH P.S. Kirtley P - I'm very impressed by Saltdean and some of your interesting methods. Well done and keep at it. Regards Chris H

If we are talking the Edwardian period, it could be a Photographer's studio - remembering that was John Ahern's profession. Regards Chris H