Hando

Like the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway, the Padarn Railway wasn't Standard Gauge. The Padarn was specifically 4' gauge. I started a thread in the narrow gauge forum which, at one point (on page 1); we discussed the idea of bashing a RTR Chassis to make a Padarn Railway Hunslet tank engine (here-->): http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140473-strange-gauge-oo-gauge-track-for-narrow-gauge-locos/. (Sorry, took quote all the way from Page 1, not exactly relevant now! )

Well, the Chimney, Side Tanks, Name Plate, Sand Boxes and Ash Pan remain from Velinheli (some parts may have been cannibalised from other locos) at the National Slate Museum, so you could build a loco around that, if you wanted to create a 4' gauge "Padarn Heritage Railway"! I mean, there is a Padarn worker's coach at Penrhyn Castle Railway Museum as well as a Slate truck transporter wagon. (I think there is also an early Padarn Railway worker's velocipede at Penrhyn). So who knows? Its possible to recreate the line!.. Have you read my 4' gauge prototype thread in the narrow gauge forum?: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140473-strange-gauge-oo-gauge-track-for-narrow-gauge-locos/

The Strat was a sad affair, the line was in the wrong place at the wrong time and had ended up being ignored by two larger companies (the GCR and Midland) that just weren't into buying up the line for what it was worth.

I made up the phrase "BTE" (hence quotation marks)

The Easingwold and North Sunderland weren't narrow gauge. They were independent railways, owned by an localised independent railway company, made up of businessman from the surrounding area, who operated the line (as the line it connected to weren't willing to lease the railway), which there were very few of; they were built cheaply with little infrastructure, but predated the Light Railway Act of 1896. The Bishops Castle Railway is what is called "BTE" (built too expensively) and goes into the category of independent railways, another example is the Potteries, Shrewsbury and North Wales Railway, which the Shropshire and Montgomeryshire Light Railway was built on. What tended to happen was the railway company would have very little investment and interest from larger companies, then splash all the money on building the line. They would go into receivership and then close or be taken over a few years later. This happened during the Railway Craze of the early 1860s as bills to build many hundreds of railways flooded the Houses of Parliament. Schemes failed left, right and centre, as those that got an act of parliament often wouldn't be built, due to a lack of investment or would end up as a "BTE". "BTE"s would utilise second-hand rolling stock to cut costs as they were very low on budget and close to being in debt, but then the problem would arise of having to repair both the line and rolling stock, especially the locos. This would become too expensive; causing the line to run down and eventually meet its demise.

Eugh! You've given me a headache John!

I liked Wakefield's quarry layout White Peak Limestone and Tarmacadam, calm and breaking apart, like their track! But it was really a simple, yet very well designed layout.

Hmm... It would definitely make thing more complicated when trying to build it. However- anything goes in the name of scale...

There is a picture of one of the Bagnalls from the Porthywaen Limeworks Railway in the link below: I checked this by using the Narrow gauge railway Museum's website and they have a Bagnall builder's plate: http://www.narrowgaugerailwaymuseum.org.uk/collections/industrial-railways/whitehaven-quarries-and-porthywaen-limeworks/ The solution to the standard gauge issue is to use P4 as standard gauge, as it is closest in scale, it makes life easier when trying to build 4' gauge railways to 1:76 scale.

A look at the picture of the departmental Ruston at Horwich makes me think how great it would be if the Steeple Grange Light Railway had "Wren" "Dot" or "Pet" or a replica of either engines puffing down the bank to Middleton! One can dream...

I'm starting to worry that I look like the Forum Police or the Met -one of the two.

My goodness, I think we need a government inquest into sem's response!

Let's derail (if you pardon the pun) that part of the discussion!

In the comments under my last post I mentioned the Gwalchmai Light Railway, a fictional branch line near to Aberffraw. Here is a map and 'history' I have created of the line (historical inaccuracies in italics). The red line shows the Gwalchmai Light Railway, the black line the RAF Mona extension, constructed in 1915, meanwhile the blue line is the Aberffraw Railway. The black-dash line is the Aberffraw Railway (Llangefni Extension) Act line, part of which was planned was constructed (the yellow line), except under a different Act of Parliament in 1880, after the Llangefni Scheme failed. This was the Capel Mawr Railway, a line built similarly to the Aberffraw Railway, as its conception implemented by the Aberffraw Gabbro Company, owned by Thomas Gwyn. It was built due to the fact that Gwyn had bought a quarry for the Aberffraw Gabbro Company in 1875, in anticipation of the Llangefni Extension. It never came and the quarry industry at Capel Mawr didn't take off as quickly as Gwyn would have wanted. After a few years of slow progress, Gwyn decided to create a new scheme in 1879, called the Capel Mawr Railway, the proposal was more successful as the newly planned line would be much cheaper, so there was much more investment from Llangefni. In 1880, the Capel Mawr Railway Company received the Capel Mawr and Llangefni Railway Act, allowing the railway to be constructed. The LNWR operated the line from the outset after an agreement with Gwyn and the Aberffraw Gabbro Company. The quarry at Capel Mawr closed in the 1880s: like that at Penrhyn, connected to the Aberffraw Railway; making the line partially redundant. However- it continued to run, but with only passenger and farm traffic to keep it going. Eventually the branch received a Parliamentary service. The Capel Mawr branch finally gave up the ghost in 1932, as it was too expensive to run with too few passengers and goods to supply it.

Ah yes, inclined Cliff lifts! I love them, although they don't give much scope into modelling a landscape, but what makes them intriguing is that they are very mechanically interesting in that some are water-balanced which use simple physics and often the views they can provide can be nothing short of spectacular. It turns out that there aren't many lifts around 4' - Standard gauge, some tend to be less, like Lynton and Lynmouth Cliff Railway at 3' 9'', while others such as Saltburn Cliff Lift are Standard gauge, whilst some like the Constitution Hill Railway in Aberystwyth are more than Standard gauge. The gauge can vary dramatically.

So what about 4'16.5 and 4'16.2, again we bump into the numbers problem; but it allows to look away from scales confusing everyone. It would be different from standard OO layouts as all the locos are miniscule, a real treat for the eye!

Ok, how about P4-16.5 and P4-16.2? Edit: Waaaaaay too many numbers!

I really meant P4 as the standard gauge as the scaler, so that OO gauge is what 4' gauge is meant to represent, e.g P44 means 4' gauge to P4 standards as opposed to 4' gauge on P4 track, like O-16.5 is O narrow gauge on 16.5mm (OO) track. I can understand the confusion though... I'm probably wrong about the OO-FS, so sorry in hindsight.

All stock building would either be kitbashing (as Nile suggested on page 1) or scratchbuilding. 16.2mm would really be for finescale P44 (I'm going to start using my gauge terms that I created, so bear with me) modellers, which is fine but not quite my forte.

My head hurts.

Plateway modelling is a whole different shabang as there were very few plateways, horse tramways or waggonways that had locos (Pen-y-darren, Middleton ect.) I live near Loughborough and I know that there used to be a plateway connecting the Charnwood Forest Canal and the Grand Union Canal. It was built by William Jessop (one of Outram's colleagues at the Butterley Company) in 1794 and was the first edge-railway in the world built between 1789 and 1794; outdating the Lake lock Rail-road, with fish-belly rail, however it closed in 1808. There are very few remnants of it left, apart from Nanpantan Wharf. However, the rails have been pulled up and a few stone blocks are scattered around in odd places I came to this knowledge when was writing a semi-fictional history of a fictional slate railway in Leicestershire, which used some historical accounts I obtained from several historical group's and council's PDFs and basis on several of the Welsh Railways. I was going to build a saga of layouts on. This got de-railed (pardon the pun), when I realised someone else was building a garden railway of nearly the same places; just when I was writing it. One day, I may build the Swithland Railway...

Locomotive gender politics?! What a strange place Rmweb can be!

That's interesting, see if I was modelling the Mount Washington Cog Raiway, I would do it in OO scale, using H0 track for the gauge of the Railway, with finescale OO track to represent Standard Gauge, to show that Mt Washington is (only just) a narrow gauge railway

It's not graphic design, its barbary! But, somehow I don't think they'll take that on-board Try teaching that "ALL locomotives are female" to a 6 year old...

I didn't think that far ahead! Oh well, it makes things easier now.