Ken 63388

I accept Porcy's evidence that the photo Alcanman posted cannot be 65859. It was a while ago when I sent a message to BR Database informing of the errors with the class J27 data. In the meantime it is best to doublecheck the data against other sources.

The photo of the J27 at Blyth looks like 65859 to me. I've pointed out earlier in this thread (page 5) that some of the shed allocation data (and therefore possibly other information) for class J27 locomotives has been entered incorrectly on the BR database website. According to 'Shed by Shed part 3 (North Eastern)' by Tony Walmsley 65859 was allocated to Blyth between 4/66 and 8/66. I did send a message to the BR database informing them of the error(s) but I assume no corrections have been made.

I have a small book by Doug Hardy called 'Scarborough 50 years ago -1959 Occurrences' which mentions a crossing movement at Robin Hood's Bay in August 1957. Fairburn 4MT tank 42085 was working a passenger train from Scarborough towards Whitby and K1 62005 (now preserved) was Light Engine. Unfortunately no other details are given. The class 40 that worked excursion 1Z26 on 19 May 1964 over the Whitby Scarborough line was D352. In June 1959 K1s 62001/3/41/42 were all allocated to Thornaby, though 62041 didn't stay long. Prior to this ten different K1s had been based at Stockton including the four transferred to Thornaby. K1 62005 was based at Darlington between 7/52 and 9/59. K1s were common at Saltburn. They may have been small enough to have been turned on the turntable there without needing to go to Skinningrove. The Great Marquess worked a three coach special (for the BBC I think) to Whitby on 13 April 1964 via Pickering.

I've checked the credits for the 'Steaming back to the Southern - Vol 2' DVD. The script was written by Neil Wooler, the narrator was Peter Fairhead and the editor was Philip Metcalfe. Ken

The Steam World Archive Series volume 2 Video/DVD 'Steaming back to the Southern' contains some footage taken at Basingstoke on Saturday 12th September 1964. This shows BB/WC 34037 Clovelly returning the 'Farnborough Flyer' to London. This was an air display special train organised by Alan Pegler and had been hauled in the down direction by Flying Scotsman. The narrator states that the train mainly consisted of Metro-Cam Pullman cars. Only four of the coaches can be seen in the footage; the first coach is a Pullman brake (i.e. older type) and the following three coaches are Metro-Cam 1960 types. Ken

I'm afraid I've only just noticed this topic. Anyway I've attached a couple of (poor quality unfortunately) photos of the goods' yard at Whitby which were taken in late December 1973. Ken

Alan, I ordered the Oakwood Press 'Whitby - Loftus Line' book a couple of weeks ago without realising that it was a reprint. I'd browsed through the original version when it was first published but decided not to buy it as, like you say, it concentrated on the economics of the line and contained no new photos. My main interests are the locomotives and rolling stock used on the line and details of train workings during BR days, especially unusual ones such as excursions etc. There is however one chapter ('The Suez Specials') that I don't recall seeing in the original version which I found to be of interest. This chapter gives details the of special trains that ran from Whitby to Redcar and Marske for ICI workers during the Suez crisis in the winter of 1956/7. This explains why two L1 locos (67763/5) were transferred to Whitby shed at that time. During this period there was also a second special (a three coach push pull set hauled by a G5 loco) which ran out from Middlesbrough as far a Hinderwell in the morning. This presumably explains why Middlesbrough shed received two G5's (67323 & 67337) at the same period. Ken

For anyone who is unware there is a selection of good quality photos (mainly colour) of railways in the Guisborough area on Flickr. These were mainly taken by John Boyes. Ken

Alan, You should have received a PM from me. The photo of D5153 at Guisborough with train 1Z54 circa 1961, which was mentioned earlier in this topic, has appeared in a recent book titled 'First Generation Eastern & North Eastern Region Diesels in Colour' by David Dunn and published by Book Law Publications. Ken

Unfortunately, at least for some of us, No 65837 was not based at Whitby. I assume this information was obtained from the BRDatabase website. The shed allocation history shown on this site for 65837 I believe should apply to 65857 (the allocation history shown for this loco is also incorrect). No 65837 was based at Percy Main from 8/50 to 11/62 according to the book 'Shed by Shed - part 3' by Tony Walmsley. A quick check through a few ABC locoshed books confirms this. Ken

The number of the Q6 in the photo taken near Brotton is 63389. The tender attached to 63389 has full length coal rails. No date is given but the photo of the Q6 on the viaduct in Saltburn woods was taken in May 1955. If you do a Google search e.g. Q6 63389 at Guisborough then you should be able to find a photo of this loco on the coal depot incline at Guisborough on 30/3/55. Hope this helps. Ken

Alan, In the summer 1963 WTT the following parcels ran on weekdays: 3D04 arr Saltburn 9.3 am 3D06 dep Saltburn 10.30 am 3D02 arr Saltburn 5.5 pm 3D07 dep Saltburn 7.30 pm In addition the passenger workings below were steam hauled: 2D50 dep 4.30 am Darlington & arr Salburn 6.0 am 1D57 dep 7.45 am Saltburn & arr Darlington 8.47 am 2D57 dep 5.9 pm Stockton & arr Saltburn 5.51 pm (SX) There is a photo in the book 'British Railways Past 7 Present No 14 on page 51 of 4MTT 42477 near Marske working the 5.9 (17.09) SX Stockton - Saltburn. The coaches appear to be Mark 1 non-corridors. Did you ever see any of the rarer locos that appeared at Saltburn from time to time e.g. tender pacifics, Black 5s, Jubilees etc? Ken

In the summer 1962 and 1963 passenger timetables only the evening Newcastle - Guisborough and return through trains are shown as having a miniature buffet car in the formation. Ken

Alan, The WTTs I have list only passenger trains (plus parcel trains and light engine movements associated with passenger trains). At least from the summer of 1960 the Guisborough pick up goods normally arrived mid morning. In response to your other queries, the North Eastern Railway Association (NERA) have published a facsimile of the 'Working of Local Freight Trains - Darlington District from 8th June 1953' document. This gives details of the Lingdale and Kilton mines branch workings at that time. NERA have also have another publication available titled 'Line Diagrams of the North Eastern Railway: Railways around Cleveland'. The diagrams show all features such as signals, ground frames, signal boxes, sidings etc. The Guisborough to Brotton, Lingdale, Kiltonthorpe and Priestcroft branches are all included but the North Skelton to Saltburn West line is not. Did Maurice Burns note the running numbers of the DMUs used on the last day of passenger trains on the Guisborough branch? Ken

Alan, In the 1963/4 Working Timetable there was a train which departed Middlesbrough at 7.56 and arrived at Guisborough at 8.18. This is listed as Diesel Pcls 3D71 and did not stop at any intermediate stations. The stock would have then formed the 8.30 Guisborough to Middlesbrough train (2D71). I don't know for certain but I would be surprised if this was split from a Newcastle train at Middlesbrough. The Newcastle trains, which started working through to Guisborough at the start of 1961, were worked by South Gosforth (52J) units. All other passenger workings were worked by Darlington units at this time. In the summer 1961 WTT train 3D71 was listed as an Empty Diesel Unit which only ran as far as Nunthorpe, arriving at 8.08, before returning to Middlesbrough at 8.40 as 2D71. Ken

Alan, I saw D8588 and D8589 at Guisborough on separate occasions. They were working the daily (Mon-Fri) pick up goods. The guy I knew at work (mentioned in post #75) who was a signalman at North Ormesby for a period during the 1960s noted the following passing the box there: D8588 3/4/64 D8589 4/5/64 D8590 21/5/64 D8591 26/8/64 It is possible that these workings (or some of them) may have been the Whitby pick up rather than the Guisborough/Stokesley one. Ken

The original bridge at Saltburn was arched and there was an accident in the late 1950's involving a double decker bus in which, if I recall correctly, some people were unfortunately killed. Frank Wilkinson (aka Pal) was the regular driver on the SMS Saltburn - Stokesley service. Russ - expect a PM from me soon. Ken

My Dad was a bus driver for SMS. The reason we moved to Guisborough from North Skelton when I was a kid (see post 87) was because my Dad transferred from SMS's Saltburn garage to Guisborogh. The Saltburn - Stokesley service also used to run to Thirsk until the early 1960's. My Dad was the driver on the last run. My brother and I were just about the only passengers. The 1961 built bridge at Saltburn is shown on the (hopefully) attached photo. Ken

Hi Russ, When I moved to Guisborough from North Skelton in summer 1960 the pick up goods continued to Boosbeck and returned to Newport via Redcar. After a while this changed and the pick up returned to Nunthorpe and then worked to Stokesley I believe. I am not sure when this change occurred. I've seen a photo dated 1/5/62 of the both lines at Slapewath occupied with stored bolster and plate wagons. The change may have occurred when Lingdale mine closed in early 1962. The museum at Guisborough is small and was only open on market days. I think it is closed during the winter months. Ken

The first time I saw mainline diesels at Guisborough was during the summer of 1961 when all freight traffic to and from Skinningrove and the remaining three ironstone mines was diverted via Hutton Gate due to the construction of a new bridge at Saltburn. These were all class 25s and they bypassed the station and goods yard. I've seen a photo of D5154 and D5156 at Carlin How double heading a train back to Newport via Hutton Gate on Wednesday 9/8/61. Diesels started working the pick up goods regularly in autumn 1962 and up to the early summer of 1963, when Thornaby lost most of its steam allocation, classes 25, 27 and 37 plus Q6s and WDs all appeared at random. After this diesels became dominant but some steam locos appeared again in 1964 when Thornaby acquired some Q6s when West Auckland shed closed e.g. 63344 & 63398. From April 1964 Clayton class 17s were also used and I recall seeing D8588 & D8589. I've also seen a couple of class 40s at Guisborough but I can't remember any details. The last steam loco I saw on the pick up goods was J27 65817 one day in summer 1964. I assume the colourlight signal referred to in previous posts was the one located at the bridge on Sparrow Lane. There is a colour photo of it on display at exhibition in Guisborough museum. It was mechanically operated and had a counter balance as used with semaphore signals. I don't know what type of LMS coaches were attached to D5153. They look as if they are steel bodied, Stanier designed I assume. It is difficult to see any detail on the second coach. The first coach does not have a porthole toilet window as far as I can tell. Ken

Hi Alan, Q6 63388 worked to Guisborough on the pick up goods several times between mid March 1963 and the end of June 1963 when it was transferred away from Thornaby. My birthday is in mid March and I received my first ABC Combined Volume that year, so 63388 may have been the first steam loco I underlined. The first diesel loco I underlined was D5113 which had also worked to Guisborough on the pick up goods. I don't know much about the appearance of D5153 at Guisborough. On closer inspection (no pun intended) of the photo it looks like two ordinary ex LMS corridor coaches behind the loco. There is certainly two vehicles, not just one is I believe is normal for an inspection train. The loco is displaying the headcode 1Z54, which suggests the train worked from Newcastle. The photo was taken during the summer months, probably 1961 but I can't rule out 1962 as I don't know when D5153 received a yellow warning panel. In addition to a photo of Q6 63389 on display at the Guisborough museum (taken 30/3/55) there is also another photo of a Q6 with the pick up goods on an unknown date. You may be interested to know that the loco is 63405 and the date was 22/5/63. Ken

With reference to post #70, I can supply the following details: The note below appeared in the May 1964 edition of 'Railway Magazine': On March 2nd 1964 an inspection special was run from York carrying the Chief Civil Engineer to Tees-side. The train was headed by B1 4-6-0 61031 Reedbuck. The train was worked to Guisborough and the on to the closed mineral line from Guisborough signal box to Boosbeck and over the badly cracked Slapewath viaduct, about 2.5 miles east of Guisborough. I assume the WD referred to in post #70 was No 90339 (56A), a photo of which is shown in the book 'Guisborough past and present' and is also displayed in the Guisborough museum. I saw this loco and its train, which was stationary roughly where the distant signal was located just east of Belmangate bridge, on Thursday 1st April 1965 at lunchtime (~12:30). I found out many years later from someone at work who was the signalman at North Ormesby crossing box on that day, that the train had worked from Dinsdale PW depot. The loco was noted in RO May 1965 on Darlington shed ex-works on Sunday 27th March 1965. Ken