Wickham Green too

t'rain rather than train !

Three an' a half chains dead slow ....................... and that's only the 4mm scale model !

54 minutes ago, LMS2968 said:

You can add H.A. Ivatt moving from the GS&WR.

Maunsell ( with a 'u' ) came from Inchicore too, of course. ( And Bulleid went in the opposite direction.)

1 hour ago, Steam here! said:

...... I'll be using them for my branchline, purely because I have a freelance layout running, locos and rolling stock from different eras, regions etc:

 

........ strictly in accordance with Rule 1 !

That second picture should be on the 'Looks like a Model' thread !

24 minutes ago, bbishop said:

But the W's were.  Bradley describes the trials of May 1948,  after which they were banned from passenger traffic.  Bill, 

One trial at a speed far greater than the loco was designed for ...... and when the Fairburrns were already on the horizon : hardly conclusive  - at least the L1s never turned up !

What sort of speeds were your H16s running at on their holidays : Bradley's table of miles between shopping for the moguls and S15s makes interesting reading.

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

..... although it doesn't look too good in that photo.

May be the very reason somebody took that photo !

1 hour ago, bbishop said:

 

.......... the Green Tanks (the H16 class built for the cross London freight traffic) enjoyed their Summer holiday job hauling the Ascot race specials without falling off the track.  Bill

Unfortunately Maunsell's equivalent goods tanks - the 'W's - were never allowed to show what they could do on summer holiday jobs ............. but they didn't have any record for falling off the track doing what they were designed for. The Rivers, of course, WERE designed for higher speeds and were found to be perfectly acceptable on track supported on something better than beach pebbles.

Hmmm ........ yes, a railway room the size of Ally Pally would permit quite an impressive layout !

30 minutes ago, DOCJACOB said:

Something to do with sighting distance to buffer up and also had to work bunker first because of smoke issues as vaguely recall 

Nowadays no problem - just stick a CCTV camera on the front ! ....... I suppose they could have used a dedicated brake van wired for bell signals - like a pull/push set - though a crew of three wouldn't have helped the economics.

You'd expect ashes to be dropped or thrown on shed rather than anywhere near the workshops - though there might be remnants of a fire still in the 'box it shouldn't have been significant if workshop attention was planned.

Each batch was built for a specific area of operation and the BILs generally kept to the Brighton / coast / Pompey areas until well into BR days. The HALs generally stayed on the Maidstone & Gillingham or Waterloo - Reading / Guildford / Alton services 'til the '51 stock displaced then from the former and they mixed in with the BILs. So a BIL on the Eastern Division would have been a rare sight but mixing elsewhere very common in BR days.

incidentally ..... I had to look up what classes 401/402 were ! 

3 hours ago, prtrainman said:

According to Bradley the first D1s entered traffic in 1921 so were part of the SECR stock until the Grouping in 1923. Not sure what livery they wore during those years, but it wasn't the ornate SECR lined one seen on the preserved D etc, They were some of the last 4-4-0s in service on BR, some not being withdrawn until 1961, so besides all the Southern Railway livery iterations some would also have appeared in BR lined black with both early & late crests. In BR days they appeared on all 3 divisions of the Southern Region, including the western one.

The prototype 'E1' was finished specially in glossy black - but all the other rebuilds would have been grey until they got Southern Green.

13 hours ago, tetsudofan said:

Guernsey managed to escape from the docks and managed to find itself a brake van:

 

Judging by the company it's keeping I'd guess it's escaped to somewhere beyond its namesake !!?!

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'd be really surprised if there was in fact a great pent-up demand for an SECR van - rather a different matter once it was made available. Supply creates demand.

Must admit I was totally gobsmacked when I saw something that looked very much like an SECR van on Rails' stand at York ...... yes, I've got two but it's not a prototype that I ever dreamt of putting on my Christmas/wish list !

According to the British Locomotive Catalogue 4-4-0 No.485 & 0-6-0 No.150 were completed in July '21 and 0-6-0 No.151 in December - so the latter should be the loco you're looking for !

17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Harry Wainwright. He was an incompetent manager who allowed a backlog or repairs to build up having mishandled the closure of Longhedge and transfer of work to Ashford and was asked by the directors to resign. As is well known his background was in the Carriage & Wagon side (nominative determinism?); the rather handsome and reasonably competent locomotives that pass under his name were the work of the Chief Draughtsman, Robert Surtees (ex-LCDR) and, one presumes, the Ashford and Longhedge drawing office teams.

In Bradley's words "It is true that motive power problems did arise in 1912-3, but these were caused by the directors' insistence that Longhedge Works be closed before its capacity had been fully overtaken by the extensions at Ashford. As frequently occurs with directorial errors, the blame was allowed to fall elsewhere and Wainwright was asked to retire .... " ......................... no, I've no idea whether you're right or Bradley - but the quality of the locos produced & rebuilt by the team that Wainwright inherited / assembled is in little doubt.

13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

....... A B1 can be distinguished from an F1 by the number on the cab side. .......

All right - if you insist " ... apart from the tender and number, of course, is there any way to tell a B1 from an F1 ?." ( I didn't really think that needed saying ! )

Yes, a D1 would use the same mechanism and basically the same tender as the D but - while it is, indeed, 'another SECR 4-4-0' - it's a very different looking machine ..... and suitable for very different operating conditions.

Or a 2-8-0+0-8-0T would make it a Beyer Garratt ......... but I think Andy WD probably hit the nail on the head : without the final '0' the second '8' must be carrying wheels ( Would have been simpler to make it a tender loco ! ).

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

O1 and F1 from 1903, so not exactly earlier. B1 I'll give you, from 1900. 

Their origins are earlier, they are stylistically earlier and production could probably be back-dated to the Stirling originals should there be a proven market ............... but yes, I hadn't strictly checked my dates.

Incidentally, apart from the tender, of course, is there any way to tell a B1 from an F1 ?.

Mansell on the S.E.R. comes to mind ........... another political appointee.

50 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

.... It will be interesting to see if we go forward from the Wainwright Classes, or backwards to Stirling and Kirtley. I would, of course, prefer the latter! .........

.... my personal preference would be the other way and an 'E' would be a relatively simple re-hash of the 'D' - though commercially a duplication ! ............ jumping forward in time I'm still amazed that a certain well known manufacturer never resurrected their 'L1' in any ( Railroad ) form - presumably the tooling's gone ; it would be a fairly simple re- hash to backdate it to an 'L'.

( Earlier ? ...... 'O1', 'F1', 'B1' yes please ! ............................. and while I'm compiling my wishlist .................. )

........ or a Meyer ?

3 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

......... different manufactures interpretation of bauxite initially varied quite wildly. ....

..... maybe different film manufacturers interpretation of bauxite too !!?!

I WILL, I WILL ................ an' if Hornby are listening you can be certain they'll announce exactly what I want the moment I commit !