chris45lsw
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Posts posted by chris45lsw
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I don't know if I am furthering the topic much by posting pics of my SECR set (arrived yesterday!) posed with several different SECR locos, but here goes anyway.
I know these would have been main line stock at the time the livery represents, but there are no really suitable locomotives for that, yet, so the next best thing would be the Hornby H class 0-4-4T, 308, which doesn't look entirely out of place at the head of the rake.
The SECR C class 0-6-0 locomotives were really intended for goods work, but could be called upon to work secondary passenger services, or empty coaching stock moves, so, with that rationale, here are two of Bachmann's C class locos, 592 in the elaborate SECR livery, and 271 in the simplified livery that followed.
And finally, here's the 3-set in its entirety.
I wouldn't describe them as purely main line stock, even when new. They were 'go anywhere stock' - anything from expresses through semi-fasts to outer suburban. Anything except the inner suburban services.
Chris KT
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Great to see new Bulleid coaches, but it seems that once again (and its not just Bachmann doing this) the potentially most popular livery BR(S) Green is in most cases being kept back for later releases (the exception being the 2-set). At least I have some current Bulleids to keep me going in the meantime. And as I've said elsewhere, please Bachmann can you add a Diagram 2406 loose BCK to the range asap.
Yes the d.2406 BCK would be an obvious addition to make to the range - after all there were 40 of them (and only 13 d.2405s in the 2-sets 63-75).
And Bachmann have also omitted the d.2017 TO (45 built) even though it featured in their old range. Several went to the ER and ScR in 1965/66 and were painted maroon accordingly.
Chris Knowles-Thomas
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I have the book "Bulleid Coaches in 4mm Scale" by S W Stevens-Stratton. According to this, the diagram 2019 corridor thirds (coach numbers 12-130), which Bachmann are to produce in SR livery as 34-775 loose vehicle, were delivered between December 1948 and November 1950, ie well into British Railways time. Although the coach may have been in Malachite, it would not, I believe, have carried Southern markings. Even set 790 itself did not enter traffic until October 1947, so less than 3 months before the demise of the Southern Railway.
Are Bachmann aware of this?
Yes but Bachmann are doing one of only five D.2019 TKs, numbers 1932-1936 which had 10" window vents (26-130, of course, had 15" vents). It will be liveried in SR style but will have "S" prefixes to the number.
Chris Knowles-Thomas
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Great to see some new Bulleid coaches, especially the shallow window versions. But what’s with now both Bachmann and Hornby (Maunsells) prioritising Crimson and Cream as the BR livery on Southern coaches. I know we’ll get them in the end, but why not a bigger range of BR(S) Green versions among the initial releases? And I agree with others that a Diag. 2405 “loose” BCK would have been nice.
Otherwise I think the range seems reasonably balenced. Let’s hope Bachmann can bring down the time from announcement to delivery, which is some ways is as important as what they’ve actually announced.
The 'loose' BCKs were diag. 2406 - diag. 2405s were in the 2-sets 63-75.
Chris KT
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I've never modelled the Pullman gangway adaptors before, and I reckon all the blue-grey Portholes would have had them added, so I gave them a bash. Keeping things simple, it's basically an enlarged top flange to the British Standard gangway, and clips either side of it, roughly halfway down, sometimes the heights of the clips are staggered, sometimes they are level. You can buy an etch for the clips, but i'm just adding angled pieces of wire to represent the locking handles, for the top flange i'm employing a re-shaped office staple, fixed to the top with rapid-drying skin adhesive. The completed gangways are painted black, with a cream inner door. Note the removed upper steps and warning sticker/plate, for running under 25kv sections. BK
Non adaptor fitted British Standard gangways have a clip roughly half way up on the right hand side. This is to enable BSGs to be clipped together. When an adaptor is fitted two more clips are fitted, one each side lower down, and they are always, I believe, the same height. So an adaptor fitted BSG ends up with three clips - one on the left and two on the right.
Chris Knowles-Thomas
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More than just 2 lengths. Each year of the SECR's existent almost had its own variant of these coaches.
Yes indeed, as on many pre-Grouping railways, SECR carriages got longer over the years eg 45, 50 and 54 foot brakes preceded the 3-sets of 60ft stock of 1912-1915 modelled by Bachmann. Indeed these plus ten 3-sets built 1915-21 without birdcages and the (in)famous ten compartment thirds were the the SECR's only 60ft stock. They did go on to build a boat train in 1921 with 62ft carriages. Most of the coaches in the 54ft birdcage 3-sets which preceded the 60ft sets ended up, heavily rebuilt, on the IoW.
Chris KT
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Bluebell Railway have 1061 and 3363 on its books so there is more than one still around.
Yes but I said there is only one 60ft birdcage surviving. I think there are around 6 preserved birdcage brakes altogether but apart from 3410 they are all 54ft or less so not as modelled by Bachmann.
Chris KT
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I think that some of the birdcages have been preserved. If British Railways did not repaint them green they would have remained crimson when the H class got a late crest and electricity warning labels.
The last 60ft birdcage 3-set was withdrawn in October 1958 (set 620) while the BR crimson set modelled by Bachmann (595) went in July 1958. SR locos received the late crest from March 1957 so in theory there was an overlap but I think electrification labels were post 1958 (1959?).
Only one of the 60ft birdcages survives in preservation - BT 3410. It is, as yet, unrestored and needs a lot of work!
None of the sets were repainted in Southern Region green. Most were withdrawn in crimson though some probably ended their days still in re-varnished malachite green.
Chris KT
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the RCTS GWR loco book part 10 and in Casserley & Asher's g
Hello,
I believe the following is all correct, GWR inherited a W4 Peckett loco that was Numbered as '1' and named Hercules. I believe
this loco was sheded at either Danygraig or East Swansea ?
What I am searching for are any photos of this loco in the years 1945 - 1959 ?
There must be some available ?
Cheers, Ian
It was never a GWR loco. It was acquired by BR(WR) in 1948 from the Ystalyfera Tin Works which was in liquidation. It was Peckett works No. 810 (was this definitely a W4, by the way?). It was overhauled at Danygraig in 1948 when it received a GWR safety valve. From July 1948 to withdrawal in Jan 1954 it was shedded at Gurnos, a sub-shed of Swansea (Victoria) (87K). There's a pic in the RCTS GWR loco history Part 10 and in Locos of BR by Casserley & Asher and no doubt others.
Chris KT
Chris Knowles-Thomas
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The firsts had evenly spaced compartments with the same dimensions throughout, whereas the composites did have larger firsts and smaller thirds (or seconds as per later in their lives). I would have to check the drawings for whether the middle compartment on the later ones with three firsts and four thirds kept the first class dimensions. that would be another example of what i said in my earlier post, where a first class compartment is simply downgraded.
Without wading through my books, from memory no Maunsell firsts were ever downgraded to third/second. Though 13 'Continentals' and 21 'Ironclads' were in 1954.
Chris KT
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d
The firsts had evenly spaced compartments with the same dimensions throughout, whereas the composites did have larger firsts and smaller thirds (or seconds as per later in their lives). I would have to check the drawings for whether the middle compartment on the later ones with three firsts and four thirds kept the first class dimensions. that would be another example of what i said in my earlier post, where a first class compartment is simply downgraded.
Because the first had 7 x 7ft 1.75in compartments while the compo had 4 x 7ft 1.75in and 3 x 6ft 3in compartments it meant that the compos had more spacious lavatories than the firsts. In the d.2303 compo (3F/4T) the exterior dimensions were, as said, the same as the d.2301 (4F/3T) but inside the inner first was made into a third by reducing the compartment width to 6ft 3in by adding additional bulkheads.
Chris KT
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What a shame, I haven't ordered very much from Falcon but what I did was excellent. I didn't mind waiting the very short 6 weeks to get my kits.
We need suppliers like Samantha and Falcon in the hobby for those of us who love to build kits. Kits of prototypes that the 'big boys' won't touch with a bargepole.
There really some massive a$$holes about that ruin things for everyone.
If you're reading this Samantha, I'm really sorry these fools forced you to shut up shop. The service I get from you is first class. Thank you for doing what you do!
Cheers
Dubya
Well I ordered two 'etches only' L&SWR coaches in October and was quite happy to wait 6 weeks as warned on the website. In fact they came in about a week and I'm very satisfied with my purchase. I'm sorry if this avenue is now closed and relieved that I ordered when I did and didn't leave it for 'another day'.
Chris KT
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These three are all in the category of "I've designed a 0-6-0 with a front end so heavy it needs extra support to spread the weight" - perhaps considering what effect such weight on the leading axle of a 0-6-0 would have on the track on entering a curve.
Perhaps the leading wheels could be justified if you enlarged the driving wheels for greater speed. Perhaps a larger boiler or enlarged smoke box
for a superheater, a new technology coming in at that time.
Real world examples of such an enlarged 0-6-0 loco could be found on the Caledonian Railway, Glasgow and South Western Railway and the survivor of this type of inside cylinder 2-6-0 in Ireland.
http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/storloco4.html
https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/keyword/gswr;nbl/
https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/IRISH-RAILWAYS/GREAT-SOUTHERN/i-4gmmTNM
They all seem to have fatter boilers.
The Irish survivor (461) is actually from the Dublin & South Eastern Railway.
Chris KT
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I ordered my two in (I think) 2012 and paid for them in the shop to lock in the pre-order price three or four weeks ago, nothing yet.
It just happened that I was down that way but I'm beginning to wonder if, because I did that, they think I intend to pick them up in person.
John
I ordered one set in 2012 (August, I think) and one in 2015, and they arrived yesterday. So, presumably, Kernow are working on 2012 orders at the moment.
Chris KT
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Hornby's 8 compartment brake third ((2636-2640) and lavatory brake compo (6401-6405) spent their whole lives in '2-LAV' sets 42-46, which were unchanged apart from 46, ie:-
42 = 2636 + 6401
43 = 2637 + 6402
44 = 2638 + 6403
45 = 2639 + 6404
46 = 2640 + 6405
42-45 were withdrawn between Nov 1956 and June 1958. In June 1958 set 46 was increased to 5 cars with three ex SECR 10 compartment seconds and used between Clapham Junc. and Kensington Olympia. Unfortunately it was withdrawn in April 1959 following collision damage.
Some of the 31 x 9 compartment lavatory thirds were in sets but the majority ran 'loose', so they're not a 'problem'.
As said, Hornby make the 6 compt lavatory brake third (2625-2629) simply because it has the same body shell as the lavatory brake compo. Unfortunately they were incorporated in '2-LAV' sets 51-54 & 56 with LSWR 56ft lavatory brake compos which are not, of course, available ready to run. Ultimately two, 2626 & 2627, became 'loose' in 1948 and 1950 respectively. So to run them 'loose' in S. Railway days you would need to exercise 'Modeller's Licence'. Incidentally 2626's companion in set 51 was 6474 which now resides in the National Railway Museum.
Chris Knowles-Thomas
Typo in my previous - there were 38 lavatory thirds (not 31).
Chris KT
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Thanks Steve, Now If I could but and L1 like yours I'd be happy! I usually start by brush/airbrushing the black parts with a sort of grimy black/brown mix, under the running plate, cab roof and smokebox on any black locos - although with anything black I repaint them with satin black 'British Paints' areosol cans, as I think it gets rid of the plastic looking sheen you get, but still leaves a relatively smooth surface to work on.
I'm glad you think it's subtle too. I think I need to try and inlcude a gentle transition of colours, there is the faintest hint of a rust colour on the lower part of the smokebox, and on the ashpan but it doesn't really show up in pictures. A little variation is good I think but I don't want to overdo it.
The techniques are just a mix of the usual, some dry brushing, paint removal with thinners etc. The WC is done in much the same way but is much easier to do, simply apply some of my own thinned out wash, wait for it to dry and then wipe off with a rag and cotton buds. I think in future I'm going to start gloss varnishing before I weather, but obviously with some refinement i'm sure I'll be confident going at the rest of my stock!
I had a feeling this would be the case, I might just save them for any pre-grouping un-rebuilt or unmodified. Although I may need some new wheelsets as I did fit them to the LSWR rebuilds - yes, yes, patience is a virtue (that I may learn one day), luckily they aren't too expensive.
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Ahhhh, Duke, as usual. an absolute wealth of information, thank you so much for taking them time, to both write and format your replies in a clear and easy to read way, I'm sure it is of huge benefit to not only myself, but many others too.
Just to clarify, set 44 only ran as a 2 car set its entire life? I shall have to figure out where the other coaches fit, some more renumbering possibly! I had noticed the brake ends being 1 number different per set infact, as on both set 209 and set 328 that's the case. One of the books I have on maunsell coaches also explains the reason behind this, being at work and it not being to hand, I would assume/recall it has to do with them being built in batches.
I'm currently sitting on 25ish coaches, but If I carry on the way i'm currently going i'm sure i'll catch up to your 365 (one for every day of the year!). I must confess that southern coaching stock appeals to me far more than goods stock/wagons, with a few exceptions. I have purchased a few more books to try and bring myself up to speed. Blessed to have the LSWR rebuilds released in malachite, the gate stock and the Birdcages all hit the market at around the same time. Roll on some re-tooled Bulleid's please Bachmann.
Hopefully will have another update tonight!
As always thanks all for reading!
Hornby's 8 compartment brake third ((2636-2640) and lavatory brake compo (6401-6405) spent their whole lives in '2-LAV' sets 42-46, which were unchanged apart from 46, ie:-
42 = 2636 + 6401
43 = 2637 + 6402
44 = 2638 + 6403
45 = 2639 + 6404
46 = 2640 + 6405
42-45 were withdrawn between Nov 1956 and June 1958. In June 1958 set 46 was increased to 5 cars with three ex SECR 10 compartment seconds and used between Clapham Junc. and Kensington Olympia. Unfortunately it was withdrawn in April 1959 following collision damage.
Some of the 31 x 9 compartment lavatory thirds were in sets but the majority ran 'loose', so they're not a 'problem'.
As said, Hornby make the 6 compt lavatory brake third (2625-2629) simply because it has the same body shell as the lavatory brake compo. Unfortunately they were incorporated in '2-LAV' sets 51-54 & 56 with LSWR 56ft lavatory brake compos which are not, of course, available ready to run. Ultimately two, 2626 & 2627, became 'loose' in 1948 and 1950 respectively. So to run them 'loose' in S. Railway days you would need to exercise 'Modeller's Licence'. Incidentally 2626's companion in set 51 was 6474 which now resides in the National Railway Museum.
Chris Knowles-Thomas
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Oh well, things don't always go according to plan. I got home about 4.45pm switched lights on, and bang, downstairs circuit gone. Never mind, I have emergency cover on home insurance, until of course when I ring them up. Electrical faults not covered. I'm beginning to wonder if anything that is likely to occur is covered at all. Anyway, no club dinner for me, as I was waiting for emergency bloke to come. Main fuse blown, and a bill for more than the cost of an A3, but at least I have lights again. And I had a candle lit sandwich, as the candle didn't seem to want to heat anything else.
Here we have 60533 starting away after quite a long rest.
and then we're back to the foreigners. This is a notanarthur, though it looks like one to me, except that it is black.
And got smaller wheels :-)
Chris KT
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That would be so well received. Surely there's an 0-6-0 chassis that would fit properly, and I think they already have the 6 wheeled tender? (available on one of the KA's?). That being said - with the popularity of the Bachmann C and The H in their pre-grouping liveries, someone might take the hint and look at options for other 4-4-0's, E's D's etc...
But back on topic, i'm really hoping that one of the retailers has some extra stock of the Olive green H class as hattons seemed to with the SECR version. And even though it stayed in that livery until later on, I need one, to repaint black
Of existing rtr 0-6-0s the MR/LMS 3F/4F and the C class have the same wheelbase, ie 8ft + 8ft 6in.
Chris KT
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In an idle moment, I did a quickie tot up of prime candidate B-sets:E116 - 7 pairs (introduced 1924)E129 - 5 pairs (introduced 1926)E140 - 41 pairs (introduced 1930)E147 - approx 52 pairs (introduced 1933) (with an additional 10 or so vehicles built as 'singles')
How many E145?
Chris KT
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I'm still struggling to find an answer...the truth must be out there! I think yellow and black lining would be most appropriate, on the belief that lining was changed from b/w to b/y post war. Can anyone confirm that. I've searched on line and through the books I have, and just can't find anything.....thanks
Edit: Just found details that I think confirm yellow. I'll go with that, unless anything new comes to light...
Thanks for looking
I can confirm that the lining should be yellow. All the L1s were painted malachite between May 1946 and Sep 1948 except 1753 & 1782. As you say the last one to lose the malachite was in June 1953 (31756).
Chris KT
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Afraid I can't help with identifying the builder but would the wheels be conversions from standard wagon wheels? That it has thin axles would fit with this notion.
Given the 12 spokes more likely converted loco carrying wheels?
Chris KT?
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That would be nice Chris, but with the best will in the world I can't foresee four different types (plus one variation) appearing in RTR. An updated E140/E145 is likely to be the best we can hope for.
Nothing to do with Toplights so I'll shut up now!
I wasn't suggesting all these should all be made - merely suggesting that Miss Prism's list to pick one from could be expanded. Personally if a new model was to appear I'd like an E147 but I'd also be happy to see a re-vamped E140/145.
Chris KT
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Not surprising the Pannier moulds are knackered. I wonder how many thousands Mainline and now Bachmann have shifted from those tools! And it would be difficult to significantly improve on the Mainline moulding, which remains remarkable for its time. (Was it 1980 they first appeared?)
The 57xx/8750 Churchward/Collett pannier remains an essential though in the RTR oeuvre, and I can understand Bachmann being keen that Hornby (or anyone else) shouldn't steal their GWR cashcow.
I completed the Toplight poll today (first time I came across this thread) but there are some errors/missing better examples in the list of choices IMHO.
The corr brake third should, of course, be D47 (NOT E47).
E83 is a 57ft corr brake compo (not a corr compo) and would be a better choice than the 56ft E82 as I'm sure a manufacturer would prefer one length of underframe (ie 57ft).
Corr compo E85 is 56ft (not 57ft) so a better choice for the reason stated above would be the 57ft E88 corr compo.
The slips are a bit confused!:-
F14 was a 57ft single ended slip
F15 was a 57ft double ended slip
F16 doesn't appear to exist?
F21 was 70ft - the only slips built to this length
Chris Knowles-Thomas
Can a M7 or 2P chassis fit under a Triang L1
in Modelling Questions, Help and Tips
Posted
I'd have thought the Hornby T9 chassis would be the best bet?
L1 wheelbase is 6ft 3in + 11ft 2in + 10ft, driving wheels 6ft 8in.
T9 wheelbase is 6ft 6in + 10ft 0in + 10ft, driving wheels 6ft 7in.
So, in theory, just move the T9 bogie forward a little and it will be very close.
Chris KT