purplepiepete

Izzy, In my case I think it's a mix of age and early moulding issues. The chairs do seem thin / brittle around the base and break in half (some worse than others) so I guess the injection process (whether heat/plastic type/moulding) was not quite what is it nowadays. I have also used older 7mm chairs on previous layouts (now converted to 4mm) and not had this problem, so agree it was a quality control and/or design issue on 4mm items. Pete.

John, I suspected this topic had previously arisen, primarily because a lot of 'secondhand' C&L (and earlier) items appear on eBay at, what seems initially anyway, a bargain price. In fact the ones I bought have Alan Gibson packaging so they may well be 40+ years old which is quite a surprise. It's no wonder that the plastic has degraded somewhat ! Anyway, good suggestion re mixing these in old / new / half chair combinations. The only slight concern is that does this still work ok when forming curves, or is there a danger that the gauging can 'slip' if the chairs don't hold the rail fully ? Assume this may not be a concern as long as the majority are set correctly and curves formed correctly. As an aside, not sure whether it is best with custom-made curves to set one side, leave to dry, set the other side, curve to shape then lay, or lay with one side done, set the curve then lay the other rail 'in-situ'. With flexi-track this is obvious, but with custom made I guess this also depends on the sleeper base type - in my case it's mostly with pre-formed thin ply panels, but I also have some individual ply sleepers to use with a template. Pete.

Thanks Rowsley, I would normally do that but all the turnouts are built. Just need to do the plain track (onto ply sleepers) which does require a lot of chairs. Pete.

Mark, that's a possible option thanks and will initially soften them at least. I find it a lot easier to thread chairs onto the rail whilst still on the sprue though - unless there is a technique I have missed ! Pete

Neil, Thanks for the suggestion. I did wonder about that, or maybe even a brief 'warming' in the microwave, but considered that a bit too risky ! I'll give it a go in a tea mug, one sprue at a time. The failure rate is 50%+ so anything is worth a shot even though I didn't pay that much and, in theory, have enough spare. Once on the rail they are ok and take the solvent as long as only slight pressure is applied to attached them to the sleepers. Pete.

This is probably stating the b. obvious, but beware when buying secondhand K&L / C&L plastic chairs unless you want to end up with a pile of broken bits ! I recently aquired a large quantity off a well know auction site only to find the plastic had hardened and degraded so badly that, upon trying to thread them onto rail, most of them just fall apart. My bad as they say, and I doubt there is any way of 'softening these' (without melting them !), but if anyone has any suggestions (other than binning the lot and buy new !) then I would welcome them. Many Thanks !

John, Any idea of the status of this project - particularly with reference to EM gauge ? The website only has an update on the availability of OO gauge track with EM and P4 offered as a crowd funding option for £150 ? It may be useful for the owner to post updates on target funding as it's risk / reward for any punters taking this approach.

yep - but might be a bit chilly in winter right next to the canal !

Hmm - not sure ? It's listed on the estate agents details as the 'Steam House' but, as you say, unlikely it was a loco shed. Maybe contained a stationary engine for rope working wagons or barges along the wharf or similar ?

Wow - that could be a very interesting home given plenty of time and funds ! Some pics of it in 'better days' and a map snapshot of the track layout as it was early 1900's. Could potentially make an interesting LNWR / Lilleshall Co shunting layout ?

Very informative David, and it shows how difficult it is to protect any website now given the attention they receive from hackers worldwide. Like yourself I had personal involvement in designing and specifying systems to prevent external attack when I worked on corporate IT Infrastructure Projects, and it's a very costly and challenging job. I hope Phil has factored all this in to the new website, especially if he is going to be processing card / e-payments and holding personal information. Personally I would let a 3rd party do all this and take the risk - hence my previous comments re Paypal, ebay etc.

Agreed, ebay is not everyones 'cup of tea' but one only has to look at the popularity of bidding on C&L (and Exactoscale) items to realise the potential. However I shall watch developments on the new C&L website and wish Phil well in launching this at a difficult time. Pete.

Speaking as a former regular customer this is a real shame for Phil, but the website is a mess. I don't know how much due diligence was paid when he bought the company but I suspect he has made the same mistake as many would make in buying a professional looking 'working' website which behind the curtain is a mess of poor code, security holes and a maintenance nightmare. Unless a fortune is spent on firewalls and continuous vulnerability monitoring it is, IMHO, just not worth the effort now. Clearly not my choice but if it was me I would ditch it all and create a basic front end store operation with links to Paypal and / or an eBay store, take the hit for commission charges, but improve your customer service and reputation by 100%. If Phil 'prefers' exhibitions and trade stands anyway, then why bother with all the hassle ?

Very nice wagons ! Does anyone know if there is any O gauge Lilleshall based stock available or transfers to convert a 'standard' 5 plank PO wagon ? I am working on a small 1920's period layout based around Nantmawr and some quarry based stock would look the part. Thanks.

Look forward to a review John as this appears to be the way ahead for future development. Not keen on the superglue idea though - no room for mistakes !

John, many thanks for the update. Any idea if Butanone / MEK could be used on these ? I guess they are not ABS and I have no experience of the plastic used in 3D printing.

David, that's a good price for a copy of a fairly rare publication - it appears that my copy was purchased directly from Lill Co for the princely sum of £2.50 back in 1980, probably by my late Father. For info Moorland also produced an excellent book 'The Mines of Shropshire' ( in about 1976 I think ) was has a small but interesting section with photos and descriptions of the Lill Co Mines. Peter.

On the subject of chairs has anyone any experience of the Shapeways 'Off the Rails' products ? The range and images look good on the website but it's hard to judge the quality and fit without some photos or users with some experience. Main issue is that the cost seems excessive - even for 7mm scale ! https://www.shapeways.com/product/JUV5AMVW3/chairs-for-one-60ft-track-panel

Couple of pics of 'modern' steel bloom vehicles - I think you are correct re bogie bolsters being the mode of transport in earlier years. I believe bloom is the term used for the thicker square rolled blast furnace product (per r/h wagon load) which is then typically hot rolled into thinner billets / ingots etc but no doubt those with better knowledge will correct me !

Quite hard to find a secondhand copy these days but let me know if you need anything. You may be correct about rolling at New Yard as the following page refs. this although it may just be a company product of that site.

Hi David, Some info on the Lilleshall rolling operation. Peter.

This is a familiar story - in my case it was bank transfer payments. What I would add is Phil has always eventually sent the items and also exchanged incorrect items - in my case 4mm fishplates sent instead of 7mm ! When I rang he did admit his stock was not ideally 'located' and mistakes happen. This was a few months ago but lead times then were 6 - 10 weeks. Far from an acceptable service level - especially when payments are taken up front - and patience wears thin waiting for the post every day.

True, but with the demise of High Street shopping due to exorbitant parking charges / travel costs etc I don't think this makes much difference anyway. Traders have moved out to cheaper areas to base a business. Back in the day (1960's in my case) a visit to your local model shop was a real treat. Nowadays most prospective modellers would browse the internet. I also think the interest in model railways (like other hobbies) amongst the younger generation has suffered due to changes in society, family time and budget constraints and a image of it being for Dads and Grandad's only. Maybe this was always the case - after all how do kids get involved - and there is still appeal with the like of the Thomas type events helping to promote the hobby.

True, I guess the larger stores like Hattons and Rails Sheffield survive because they have a big on-line presence. Chester Model shop (recently improved) and Modelzone both had very poor websites.

Used this shop many times since it opened and sadly have to agree - I think what went wrong is called on-line shopping / ebay etc. Shops hit by big hikes in rentals and business rates in places like Chester will always struggle to compete (as happened to Modelzone). Sadly I think the days of model shops on the High Street will soon be history. Bagnalls in Stafford used to be my favourite model shop as a child - now long gone.