Brian Kirby

Having mentioned the Cheona DMU book from 1995, I have to say Chapter Ten on High-Density suburban units, and the mis-labelling of many of the drawings, leads to great confusion. If anyone reading this has their own copy already, perhaps they could double-check and correct any mistakes I have made myself? Starting with page 89: (Ignoring underframe details) Figure 182: This is Class 116 DMBS with later added gangways, also suits Classes 117 and 118 if a headcode roofbox is added. Figure 183: This is an original Class 117 or 118 DMBS, or 116 or 125 without the roofbox. Figure 184: This floorplan represents gangwayed Class 116,117,118 DMBS and also original builds 116/7/8/25 by deleting the gangway. Figure 185: This is a Class 116 original TC or TS centre trailer (same body). Figure 186: Opposite side of figure 185 above. Figure 187: Floorplan of later gangwayed Class 116 TC Figure 188: Floorplan of original Class 116 TC. Figure 189: Floorplan of later gangwayed Class 116 TS. Figure 190: Floorplan of original Class 116 TS. Figure 191: This is an original Class 116 or 125 DMS, also suits original 117 and 118 by adding roofbox. Figure 192: This is a later gangwayed Class 117 or 118 DMS, also suits later 116 by removing roofbox. Figure 193: Floorplan for later gangwayed 116/117/118 DMS. Figure 194: Floorplan for rebuilt Class 125 DMS allowing through movement in case of fire. Figure 195: Floorplan for original Class 116 or 125 (95 seat). Original 117/118 were 91 seat. Figure 196: Original Class 117 or 118 TCL. Figure 197: Later gangwayed 117 or 118 TCL. Figure 198: Floorplan of later gangwayed 117 or 118 TCL. Figure 199: Floorplan of original 117 or 118 TCL. Figure 200: Floorplan of Class 115 TCL. Figure 201: Class 122. Figure 202: Class 121. Figure 203: Floorplan of Classes 121 and 122. Figure 204: One of the Class 131 parcels conversions from Class 122 (55013?) Figure 205: Opposite side of figure 204. Figure 206: Floorplan of Class 131 (other conversions the door positions vary) Figure 207: Class 122 DTS Figure 208: Class 121 DTS. Figure 209: Floorplan of Classes 121 and 122 DTS. Figure 210: Class 115 and 127 TS. Figure 211: Opposite side of figure 210. Figure 212: Floorplan of Class 115 and 127 TS. Figure 213: Class 115 or 127 DMBS. Figure 214: Opposite side of figure 213. Figure 215: Floorplan of Class 115 and 127 DMBS. Figure 216: Class 125 TS. Figure 217: Opposite side of figure 216. Figure 218: Floorplan of Class 125 TS. Figure 219: Class 127 TSL. Figure 220: Opposite side of figure 219. Figure 221: Floorplan of Class 127 TSL. Hope that helps, all comments or corrections are very welcome. Cheers, Brian.

I've been spending ages on the interiors for my two Lea Valley (Class 125) sets, all are re-arrangements of the Lima mouldings, with several re-thinks along the way.The first job is to correct the seat spacing in the middle of the centre cars, having gotten rid of the toilets. These vehicles had a unique arrangement of five internal sections, allowing for smoking and non-smoking, a presumably unrequired need for the same in first-class that was never applied, and perhaps a ladies only compartment, all very baffling? Another complication, is that as a result of some engine fires on their Class 127 sister units, on the St.Pancras services in the 1960s, it was decided that Rolls-Royce engined units would have their seating altered to allow access throughout the vehicles, with extra external steps and grab handles added, for easier evacuation to ground level. So I made two different trailer interiors, one original, one modified with through access. I also modified one of the Driving Motor Seconds the same way, the good news is the driving brakes already had through access as built, only extra steps and grab handles need be added. Later on, I was studying photos for the umpteenth time, when to my horror I noticed that all London Midland Region Class 127 vehicles were altered, but Eastern Region only altered the driving cars (with the RR engines and fuel tanks). My modified centre car was wrong! So there was more work putting it back to original. Curiously, the Albion-engined Class 115 had all these extra steps from new? So here are my two initial centre car interiors, the one with through access turned out to be pure fiction, didn't match anything else so was rebuilt (see below). Incidentally the various fleet seating totals bear out the changes, the 125 DMBS were always 65-seat, the trailers were always 106-seat, the DMSs were 95-seat, but were altered to 91-seat. The Cheona DMU book isn't much help, most of the high-density unit section is very confused. Here's the offending centre interior (top) rebuilt to match it's mate, and below are the early and the late DMSs. Cheers, Brian.

"Leaf Green" is my unofficial approximation of one shade (2), although it is an officially recognized colour. When I was researching and building Class 126 Inter-City units, some early 70xxx units seemed to be in (1)"EMU" green and others in a slightly deeper shade (my (2) Leaf Green theory). Class 126 cars in the 50xxx series seem to have appeared in either both the (2) Leaf Green or darker still (3) Brunswick Green, the last built (including the two 59xxx buffet cars?) were probably in (4) BR Olive Green, as were any subsequent repaints in the 60s. The various batches of Class 120 Cross-Country sets seem to have gone through all these various changes of shade, as did the Class 116 suburban sets. Which DMU does one paint in Precision's "Pre-1954 green", it must surely only apply to EMUs originally, until 1956??? BK

Sorry John, I disagree with your second choice of colour, it should be the Brunswick loco green or the intermediate leaf green shade, which when brand new and freshly applied can look quite bright and cheerful in sunshine. However, they will darken with age, but will not get as dark as the final olive shades. I'm puzzled by Precision's quote of pre- and post-1954 Greens(?), the earlier colour was applied only to EMUs from at least 1951, until the advent of the 1956 Inter-City DMUs, followed by the 1957 Derby Suburban DMUs and some others. The 1954 Derby Lightweights were painted in the darker "Brunswick loco green", which carried on into the 1956 Derby Heavyweights as built. Derby Suburban units appear to have carried various shades of green, starting with the light EMU green in 1957, followed by a slightly darker version akin to "leaf green", which in turn was followed by a reversion to Brunswick loco green. Then BR decided to replace all of these various shades with a new standard olive green, which gave off a yellowy oily look when new, ER Lea Valley DMUs were repainted in an even darker shade. Then you can add on to all of these green liveries, the weathered versions of each, making a very complicated and confusing subject. I would suggest that an as-built GRCW Class 122 should be painted in either "Leaf Green" or "Brunswick Green", the later Pressed Steel Class 121s would appear in the darker "New Standard Olive Green", which will be the difference in shade that Chris Leigh witnessed in the early 1960s. Some Class 122 would be repainted in the new olive shade. I have modelled Class 116s in five shades of green now, you could say i'm hedging my bets! Cheers, Brian.

STAINES WEST STATION (GWR) Whilst we mention this well-known Class 121/122 bubblecar destination of yesteryear, let's play spot the old station on Google Earth. Note how it is now surrounded by new housing, but a chunk of the platform area survives. BK

Thanks for the photo Chris, very nice scene. Now I ask myself, is it Colnbrook or Cowley? Knowing of Chris's infatuation with the Staines West branch, it's probably inspired by the former? As Chris will already know, the station building at Staines West is an amazing survivor, and can still be seen on Google Earth, although it takes a bit of finding. It is now completely cut off from any railway, and has been done up all posh, and surrounded by new houses, although it is still larger than it's new neighbours. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe it started life as a large private house, then was converted into a station building? Cheers, Brian.

A special request to Chris Leigh (Dibber 25 on RMweb). Hi Chris, You mentioned earlier, how you had partly based your Class 122 livery research, on your own bubblecar conversion made some years ago. I, and i'm sure many other members, would love to see photos of your model on this thread. Didn't you say it won an award or something? You must have a few images on file. Cheers, Brian.

And here's a faded blue Lea Valley set, with it's windows being added. I remember riding on these Class 125s, to and from my school's sports ground at Oakleigh Park in the early 70s. They were much faster and smoother than the rattling and vibrating Cravens units, these were the greyhounds of the DMU world. Most were unemployed on the weekends, and would be parked up north and south of Finsbury Park, even up the gradient to East Finchley. On one occasion, returning to King's Cross late afternoon, a fairly empty Class 125 rolled into Oakleigh Park station heading south (ready for a rush-hour departure from KX), and the driver was reading a broadsheet newspaper as he drove, with his hands on the controls underneath. The paper quickly disappeared when he spotted an inspector on the platform at Finsbury Park. BK

Thanks Signaller and John T, The shades of green are getting darker, here's my darkest so far, which represents the weathered version of the final DMU olive green. This is still a work-in-progress, another Derby 3-car, this time an ER "Lea Valley" set in late 1960s condition, as running on the GN from King's Cross. These started life on the GE section from Liverpool Street, but were transferred to the GN around 1968/9. The bodies were very similar to the WR units, although the centre cars had a slightly different arrangement. The big difference was under the floor, with Rolls-Royce engines and semi-hydraulic transmission, rather like as used on today's Sprinters. My best plan so far is to use the engine mouldings off Hornby Class 110 power cars. Cheers, Brian.

Thanks Timbo, the destination blinds were from an old Modelmaster transfer sheet, which are okayish, but their typeface is a bit suss, and the choice of destinations are in many cases, rather more suited to 1980s and 1990s operation. By contrast, the sheets supplied with the new Dapol 122 bubblecar are superior in style and selection, hopefully a different sheet will add even more variety with their forthcoming Class 121? Better still would be if Dapol eventually made these sheets available separately as spares. BK

Many Thanks to Bernie and Colin, Here are two more images, this time showing the two cab fronts, complete with blue insulation tape cut square for DMU codes, although they really do need some lamp-irons. I nearly shied away from showing these, as they are a bit "warts and all" (five times actually size on a large screen), but here goes . . . . . BK

I've got good news for fellow RMwebber Rembrow, and his nice Gloucester Class 122 Driving Trailer seen above. Photos reveal that their inner ends were originally lined green (1958), but presumably got dirty very quickly, and were repainted black quite soon afterwards (1960)? So far i've only found pics of the later Pressed Steel Class 121 DTSs with black ends, so perhaps a lesson had already been learned? Well i've learned something today. I've built various green DMUs, but haven't gotten around to making any green DTS yet, although I have done blue and a blue-grey versions, i'd better put one on my to-do list? Cheers, Brian.

Here's a lined green 116, this is the same Brunswick Green as on the previous unit, but the combination of lining and the quirks of digital photography, have made this look brighter than it really is. Note the late Michael Mensing image in use as a screensaver for inspiration, taken at West Bromwich c.1960, it's an unlined 116 in the second livery. MM was a prolific photographer of green DMUs, and has left us with many valuable and historic images. BK

I dread to think how many units i've got, but I derive pleasure from them, so the more the merrier. They keep me out of the pub too. BK

Hi Ray, In this early livery the cab handrail should be longer, and was in fact a combined handrail/gutter pipe, running from the cantrail to the very bottom of the body. As I said last week, it was perhaps a bit too much to expect the manufacturer to cover this variation, but since you had your's apart already, it would be an easy job. By the way, your home-made mixed up paint looks more accurate than the manufacturer's body paint. Cheers, Brian.

Nice job Rembrow, although I would have used a darker shade myself on a 122, even though you have added a darker coat on top. Shouldn't the green and the lining continue around the inner end, it was certainly seen on either the Gloucester or Pressed Steel single car trailers, or both? I would use fresh Brunswick (loco) green on a Gloucester 122, and the darker and more yellowy DMU olive green on a Pressed Steel 121 and trailer, that was the distinction between the two shades, especially when weathered, I think this is where Chris Leigh was getting confused? One other thing, you don't seem to have replaced the pair of over-length Lima naughty windows behind the cab? It's a bit of a chore, but does improve the appearance 100%, or should it be left to sad old DMU nutters like me? Can we see your trailer alongside the Dapol 122 please? Well done anyway, Cheers, Brian.

Yes, well spotted Cheesysmith, when I built the light green unit, the original intention was to paint that one blue, and I forgot to change the cab handrails. I shall amend the mistake in due course, but it's not a high priority, cos nobody else seems to have spotted it, but then again, everyone's gonna know now! The other cock-up is on the medium green DMS, where i've added the new rear window section. For some strange reason, I have forgotten to remove not one, but two water filler caps, all the other sides are okay, how did that one get through? This is another head-scratching area, as built and prior to refurbishment, 116 driving cars seem to either have a water filler mounted further forward, or none at all? Lea Valley sets are also different in this respect. All very confusing. Cheers, Brian.

Excellent detective work Chris, thank you very much, you are a star. I am slightly surprised to see that Paytrain working started, before most (or even any) 116 sets had been converted, the change is also earlier than I had imagined? However it does look as though there is a very neat watershed, between green non-corridor and repainted blue gangwayed sets. I am very tempted to add one (or two!) blue gangwayed 116s to my fleet.The remaining area of confusion is with centre trailers, was the 1968 mixture of TC and TS a hangover from the inclusion of the ex-Newport all-second sets? Did the availability of first-class travel in the Cardiff Valleys finish with the commencement of Paytrain operation in 1968, with the TCs temporarily de-classified, before permanent downgrading during a works visit. One more question, if I may, was conversion work done locally, or at Swindon Works? Cheers, Brian.

Many thanks for the info above Chris, my only reference was the Modelmaster DMU book, which only covers every few years. I was wondering how the all-second trailers would fit in and be used later at Cathays? Now of course all South Wales trailers ended up as all-seconds with gangways eventually, that all seemed to happen sometime between 1967-72, and probably coincided with a repaint to blue, do you have definite dates for de-classification and/or gangway-fitting, and the introduction of pay-train working in The Valleys? BTW, did anyone spot the extra bogie steps on my blue DMS, TC and TS above? These were added to non-corridor DMUs (Class 115/116/125/127) after a spat of fires in service, it was soon realized that passengers had difficulty exiting in an emergency, with no gangways or lower steps. I don't think this applied to driving-brake vehicles, since passengers could already vacate to the track via the driver's cab or guard's compartment. Alterations were also made to the interiors, with extra doors and/or openings added through each car. If you think 116 liveries are complicated, the interior changes involve even more head-scratching? The Golding/Cheona DMU book does help here to a certain extent. Cheers, Brian.

Thanks again chaps, Here's another Class 116, this time in their second livery, with a darker green (Mid-Brunswick Green, which was near enough loco green, like used on early Derby Lightweights). This is a 1957 first-batch unit, that must have been repainted, since it was probably in the lighter shade when built? The centre car is not the usual composite, but one of ten units with an all-second trailer, although the bodyshells are the same for both. These were used initially on the Eastern and Western Valleys in South Wales, from Newport to Pontypool and Blaenavon, and Newport to Ebbw Vale and Brynmawr respectively. These services were discontinued in 1962, and the units were re-allocated to the Cardiff Valleys fleet. Close-up digital photos are so merciless, i've just spotted two mistakes on the side shown here of W50129, how did they get overlooked(?), all my others seem correct in this respect, can you spot the cock-up? This pic shows my interpretation of first and second liveries, i'll show a lined-out 116 later. There's another mistake here on W50901, in my defence I was originally going to paint this blue, then changed my mind and forgot about a certain detail, but what was it? (Correct on the one behind). These little errors will be corrected at their next works overhaul (gnashes teeth). Incidentally, I studiously picked out the tops of every door droplight with a silver line, to represent the metal window locks, but in photos it looks like a reflection, looks better in the flesh. Cheers, Brian.

Thanks Chaps, Here's a second batch (1958) 116 in weathered original green, which was basically the same shade used on EMUs in the 1950s, it deteriorated to a powdery pastel green. Not all early units were repainted until the late 60s, this unit has whiskers one end, yellow panel at the other, to reflect two periods. The green inside ends might be a mistake(?), on darker green units the side colour wrapped around the corners, as far as the vertical handrail, with black beyond. When they started lining out some units in the later shades, the colour and lining stopped on the corners, with all-black ends. It's difficult to find clear pics showing between cars, within a unit. All unpowered cars have been lowered on their bogies, but I still have to lower the DMBS vehicles, and re-engineer the motor bogies. BK

Here are some more side-on pics. BK

Hi Everyone, With body painting completed, i've been busy fitting out my various Class 116 Derby 3-car units. You cpuld argue that this is modified ready-to-run (from Lima 117s), but I reckon the rebuilding work, especially on the centre cars, qualifies as scratchbuilding, and besides I don't really want two parallel threads. All 116s started life on the Western Region, and partly to do with regional boundary changes, and partly due to WR service reductions, many were later re-allocated to Eastern, Midland and Scottish depots, these retained their non-corridor status until the late 1970s/early 80s, whereas those that remained on WR, had been fitted with gangways by the early 1970s. Here are some rail blue cars, as running on the Great Northern out of King's Cross, and from Cricklewood on the LMR. Cheers, Brian.

Apologies Will, I forgot to answer this earlier. Regarding my Lima W55019 conversion, it's not a rebuild from Lima 117 shells, this is based on one of the late Lima issue, when they produced a RTR 121, before Hornby got their hands on it, but i'm sure you'd sussed that already. On a Lima 117, the roof welds are moulded proud as ribs, curiously on their 121, the weld joins were modelled as grooves(?). So as part of my conversion, I filled in said grooves and then rubbed it all down, this left fairly convincing lines/scars to represent the weld lines. I was replacing all the roof vents anyway, the 121s had ridged dome vents, the earlier 122 class had shell vents. NOTHING IN THIS POST CONCERNS THE Dapol 122! BK

Now you think the Dapol 122 should be even lighter than it is??? Thanks for showing the picture Chris, but I would say your M55010 depicted is still DARKER than my doctored repaint above. As supplied, Dapol's 55000 with whiskers, is a luminous avocado bath on wheels (with a rhubarb and custard interior). I would argue that my humble thinned black over-wash has brought the colour back into near enough the correct zone. I suspect these exterior and interior colours have put off a number of people from purchasing this particular version. The model is supplied in supposedly brand-new ex-works condition (1958), the photo on page 40 of the "Heyday Of The DMUs" book shows how dark it could have been, even allowing for alleged colour distortion, it cannot have distorted it that much? Enough of my opinions, what does everybody else think? Cheers, Brian.