Brian Kirby

Hi Clive, It's spelt/spelled "roofs", not "rooves", but people pronounce it/them either way. My split pins were bought at a show some years ago, i'm sorry I can't remember who sold them, might have been Wizard Models, I think Eileen's Emporium sell them as well? My size is 18mm x 1mm diameter, the length isn't crucial, these are too long for 4mm anyway. The good news is the offcuts can be refolded to make new mini-split pins, one 18mm pin had enough meat on it to make three supports on these roofs, a lot cheaper than using machined handrail knobs. The other option is find a supply of half-round 1mm brass (or similar) wire, which of course is all a split pin is. Another method is to bend up office staples (like I do for magnetic uncoupling), but these are square section, which have other handy uses like lamp irons, or those tricky handrails around the cab corners on 4CIGs and VEPs, etc. BK

My Southend unit passengers need flushing loos, so it's on with the water pipes that feed the roof tanks. For this job i've used 26 gauge wire and split pins, the nice thing about the latter, is that they can be fashioned and crimped for virtually any job, whereas handrail knobs come in various lengths and sizes, plus they will only accept certain sizes of wire. Methinks I should add some kind of round pod, where the pair of pipes enter the roof. BTW, on the prototype both pipes are feeding in, but only one pipe would be in use when filling, depending on which side the supply source stands. I have a sneaking suspicion that these roofs originally had shell vents, but 1950s photos aren't that clear, later images show ridge dome vents as moulded by Replica, but the difference isn't that obvious. The 1956 roof vent layout is another slight mystery, there appear to be fewer vents fitted, understandable in open saloons, but even the individual compartments appear to only have one vent each (usually two in loco-hauled), so I may remove selective vents? The rough marks on the buffer beams, are where the unrequired inner buffer shanks have been sliced off. Next job is adding all brakevan and cab handrails. BK

Good point about luggage racks, but then how many people fit them to their regular coaches, although suburban ones are "more in your face"? I'll pass on this for now, however it was done, it would have to be very neatly applied, or it would spoil the look? In 4mm scale we tend to look down on trains, you'd only see the luggage racks/nets from near track level. BK

For speed and convenience i'm using Replica interiors, with a few Southern Pride bits for the first-class and full-width end seats, the latter mounted directly inside the ends, which double up as mounting brackets as seen above. Now of course all the interior mouldings have to be chopped up and re-arranged in order, i'm cheating slightly with the open seats, the real things had 3+2 seating per row, the mouldings are 2+2 seating intended for express stock, but who's gonna notice with the body back on? The first photo shows the rebuilt interiors for the 8-compartment Motor Brake Second above, and the 9-compartment Driving Trailing Second (without toilet) below, these were made from Replica BS and S mouldings respectively. Notice the big chunks missing from the seats, these are a relic from the clip-fit requirement, hopefully this won't show when inside the body? Incidentally, you may have noticed that I have had to slice off the top of a bulkhead on the MBS (top left), this is to clear the pantograph well, handily, the bit chopped off can be used to fill the void between the well and the roof proper. Next is the interior for the DTS with toilet (DTSL?), this is fashioned from a Replica Mk1 TSO interior, to give a 3second+loo+5second pattern, an untouched example is shown above for comparison. All tables have been chopped out, which leaves the floor slightly uneven, but again it shouldn't show with the body on, I can always add some plastic slabs in their place. Lastly the tricky one, the Trailer Composite Semi-Open, this requires a 3first+loo+6second pattern with side-corridor for first-class. I may have cheated in the case of 3+2 versus 2+2 seats, but I have created the distinctive offset access to the second-class toilet, with the odd 1+4 seat arrangement by the door. The real pair of toilets were completely separate with a central wall running lengthwise, my toilet interior looks like three baths and a filing cabinet, they are merely upturned spare tables to brace the bulkhead walls, since the toilet interior will not be on view of course. First-class seating and corridor panels are Southern Pride. Note the SP end seats already affixed inside the body. BK

I don't intend installing lighting at this stage, but totally agree regarding some RTR lighting, far too bright for pre-1960s stock. The old-style yellowy tungsten bulbs gave a much cosier atmosphere, albeit bad for reading, modern stock is so bright, it's like sitting in someone's kitchen. The same happened on the London Underground, the District Line's 'R' stock had horrible bluey cold fluorescent tubes fitted internally, along with drab grey panelling and maroon/grey seats. By contrast, the District still had the older 'OP' stock as well, which had the warmer tungsten bulbs, a yellow and green interior, and nicer looking seats. Many tube stations were quite dim back then too, at least you couldn't see the dirt, then bit by bit fluorescent lighting took over, it was all quite dazzling at first, it gave me headaches, until I got used to it, or else they tuned it down a bit? BK

As previously mentioned, I don't like clip-fits, especially the tighter variety, there's always the danger of distortion or breakage, especially in the case of "cut-and-shuts" like here, with the various new joints on the bodywork. So i've chopped off all the offending clips and brackets, and have installed my new end brackets, which are also drilled and tapped for screw-fixing. Two of the cars on these units were all-compartment, the other DTS with toilet had all-open seating, the Trailer Composite had open seating in second-class, and compartment with side-corridor in first-class. For the ends with compartments, my method is to affix a separate full-width seat to the body end, with added packing blocks to achieve the correct height for the floor. When set, these can be drilled and tapped. The main section of interior will be attached to the floor. For the inside of driving cabs and luggage end of the MBS, I mount a new bracket, made from chopped-up plastic angle. I'm using Replica suburban interiors for the compartment cars (suitably chopped-up and re-arranged), for the open seating i'm using Replica's MK1 TSO type, with the tables cut out, which saves a lot of time. I've also added a few Southern Pride suburban seats for the ends of the open stock, i'll probably also use SP for the three first-class compartments. One slight snag with the Replica chassis, are the angled ends, which don't sit on the new centre brackets quite as well as a completely flat floor would. To get around this problem, i've added plastic blocks to the inside of the ends, to act as corner pillars, which will support the body, plus the usual centre angle bracket, but with this mounted higher up to clear the floor, since it will only be for retaining the screw in tension. Cheers, Brian.

Hi Kelly, There's nothing like a good old chopped-up cut 'n' shut, they're definitely good for the soul. Taking the plunge is half the battle, and you've passed that stage with flying colours. I find some Replica parts don't fit totally perfectly, there's a bit of jiggery-pokery involved, like with a lot of kits. The other half of the battle is getting thing's nice and square, especially difficult when cutting across whole bodyshells, i've also found some bodyshells come slightly banana-shaped lengthwise, at least with 1950s suburban stock you can fix this by cutting the door lines, then patching and re-gluing. When using strong glues (unavoidable), the parts can warp slightly as the glue continues to dry, a bit like The China Syndrome, so the following day the joint needs a bit of hands-on correcting and bending back into shape. Keep up the good work, the rewards are satisfying, especially when you got a version that nobody else has! Cheers, Brian.

Thanks to everyone for their input here, i've double-checked my copy of BR Fleet Survey 11, and Chris is absolutely right, Chapter 8 confirms that the 1961 Class AM8 was referred to as "Southend Augmentation Stock". Clive is right to say Class 302 require new cab-fronts, it's not just a case of larger cab windows, the cab-front angles are also different. As Cheesy and Clive say, the correct term for this stock seems to have been "1956 Southend Stock". I remember riding on these units in the mid-to-late 1970s, they seemed to be rather unloved in dirty plain Rail Blue, and gave quite a rough ride with their BR bogies, compared to the smooth-riding qualities of the Gresley design bogies fitted to many other types. To be fair to the 307s, I used them off-peak, when they were almost empty, the springs were no doubt tuned for carrying crush loads during peak-hour, which would probably have made them smoother riding? These units were always ugly ducklings, made worse with rebuilds in 1960/61, and again in the early 1980s, they just got uglier! Regarding the Replica parts, i've never been a fan of clip-fit bodies, and the three pairs on each Replica body make things very tight, which can create distortion and potential breakage. Unfortunately thanks to the clip-fits, large chunks of their moulded interiors are omitted to clear them, but hopefully this won't show too much with the body on, just don't add lighting! Add to this, the raw chassis require slight filing back to fit inside, and the bodies seem to sit too low on the solebars. So i'm cutting off all my clip-fits, and replacing them with end body screws, my technique with interiors is to chop off the end-seat, and affix this to the end bulkhead, then the seat is drilled and tapped to receive the body screw, other positions will use brackets. The main section of seating is now fixed to the chassis, which helps to reinforce the latter and keep things nice and straight. BK

Hi Everyone, I mentioned on Clive's nearby Class 304 build thread, that I had part-built some similar bodies for a sister unit, these had been put on the back-burner, while I was busy with another project. I don't want to impose on Clive's thread, so i've started this new thread, hopefully this will also help to get things finished? I've modified the Replica bodies and cabs thus far, to represent a 1956 Class 307 (Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria) in original condition, although I could still re-convert it into a Class 302, as seen on the LTS line. Quite why I want a 1500v DC unit is beyond me, I don't have any 1500v catenary, and the period is a bit early for me, plus I don't even model the GE area! So this is a bit of a vanity project, I just fancied one in the early m.u. light green, I might not even install a motor bogie, instead it could be a dead load being hauled to or from the works. I'm not even sure what these units were called when built at Eastleigh in 1956, although I vaguely recall the very 1950s sounding term "Southend Augmentation Stock"? In 1960/61 these 32 units were extensively rebuilt and converted to 6.25/25kv AC, thus becoming Class AM7, and after 1968 were referred to as TOPS Class 307. Later AC units copied the coach layouts and designation of these 1956 units, but the latter had to suffer several physical changes, including changing the order of the cars within each unit. Where the later units had motors, resistances, rectifier, transformer and pantograph all within the 55 ton motor coach, the AM7s had to have a rectifier and transformer added to the existing equipment. This may have made the AM7 motor cars too heavy, or perhaps there was insufficient room, or the chassis were not strong enough? The result was the new AC pantograph, rectifier and transformer were instead located on the adjacent Driving Trailer. Cheers, Brian.

Hi Martyn, It's looking good, how do you find all the time to push this project along so quickly? I've just thought of another job you've got to do . . . . . ., Swindon DMU bogies had different and quite distinctive spring planks in the middle, I spent ages cutting off the originals, and even more ages gluing-on triangular pieces of plastic, but it was worth it. Another Swindon DMU characteristic was much deeper solebars than those found on most other classes, can you add this to your chassis, although it would probably involve replacing all the steps? Cheers, Brian.

Looking good there Clive, but . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . you haven't altered what will become the three first-class compartments on your Trailer Composite, these should each be 5 to 6 inches wider per compartment. As you will no doubt already know, most second-class compartments are 6'3.5" wide, which squeeze down to 6'2" in certain cases, but one inch difference isn't noticeable, however first-class compartments on a Class 304 are 6'8" wide, which are noticeably broader, and are easily spotted in a train. You could cut out this section, separate each one, re-affix them individually to the body, then fill in the gaps, or is that just for fussy nutters like me? Of course Messrs Bachmann and Replica have been flogging their Compartment Seconds labelled up as "Composites" for years now, how do these people sleep at night?! On your newly-cut large square windows, you've got a lot of work ahead, adding the external window frames somehow, which at the same time would give the end uprights a prototypically sturdier look, than the usual compartment windows. On the whole though, this is a quicker and easier way of building certain units, I do have a half-built Class 307 unit myself, knocking around somewhere, using these same body shells. I'm afraid i'm not a fan of the Replica motorized chassis with the raised false floor. With all the work involved in building emus, I at least want to see a full-depth interior, with the option of unmutilated passengers added. Not keen on Replica's suburban seating mouldings either, with great big chunks of seat missing, to allow for the body clip-fits. Grumble, grumble, moan, moan. Cheers, Brian.

Yes, you're right Mike, my units do have a good geographical spread, from WR Cross-Country units, and Scottish Inter-City types, to ER and Midland Derby suburbans, but i'm modelling what I remember, perhaps i'm recreating my childhood?! To answer the query about roofbox destinations, they're nothing special, just plasticard, filler, and elbow grease, the labels are Modelmaster, which are not the perfect style, but they'll suffice for now. Here's my blue Class 125 hydraulic set, which differs from the green unit with some detail alterations on the driving cars, namely an amended interior on the DMS with through access (but still no gangways), plus extra steps on both for emergency evacuation, after the fires on their LMR Rolls-Royce cousins. Oddly, the ER never bothered to fit extra steps to the centre trailer, whereas LMR retro-fitted steps to all vehicles on their 4-car Class 127s, although any immediate danger was within the driving cars, above the fuel tanks and engines. Equally oddly, LMR Class 115 (Marylebone) with Albion engines, were built with steps to all vehicles from new? I've given my blue unit a slightly flat weathered finish, to reflect their run-down state by the mid-1970s, i've just noticed in one of my pics, that one of my extra steps has broken off (gnashes teeth!). Cheers, Brian.

So here is the first of my two Lea Valley hydraulic dmus (Class 125), just to re-cap, they are complete rebuilds of Lima 117 units, rather more work involved than "modified RTR", I think they deserve to be within the "Kitbuilding and Scratchbuilding" section. All three vehicle types have had their bodysides re-arranged, the most complicated was the centre Trailer Second, which involved removing the toilet section, chopping each bay up into reduced length individual sections, to get things back within a standard length shell, with spare bays added. The Driving Motor Second was created from the regular Lima DMBS, with new window sections to the rear, replacing the guard's van section, and both driving cars have had their non-scale long windows, behind the cab, replaced with standard size apertures. The roof detail has been replaced by cast shell vents, the interiors have been rebuilt, with two versions to reflect different periods. All bodies have had their gangways removed, and been lowered on their bogies, motor bogie wheels have been turned down, new couplings are fitted, Bachmann narrow on the ends, Airfix narrow couplings within, and all underframe detail on the driving cars has been removed and replaced with scratchbuilt components. This green unit is painted in mid-60s to early 70s dark green shade, which they would have carried in their final years out of Liverpool Street, and their first few years on the GN King's Cross lines. Cheers, Brian.

I've made an alteration to the chassis exhaust pipes, removing the end upsweep, and making the horizontal section longer, compared with above. We're almost there now, ready for final re-assembly of all six cars. BK

Hi again Martyn, I can't claim sole credit for the choice of Class 117, but I was in the room when the idea was discussed, and remember giving it the thumbs up. You seem to lower your DMU floors a slightly different way, I cut out a square section around each bogie pivot boss on the chassis, but not for re-use. Instead I glue a new slab of plasticard in the recess above the floor, and drill a new pivot hole through this. This lowers the floor on to the bogies by around 1mm/40 thou of an inch. Either method will be fine. Thanks for clearing up my confusion over Trix/Liliput Mk1s, interesting to hear about them being sold late on in Chester, in the Liliput years (1970s - mid 80s) irregular batches of various British Trix models were still being produced in Bala, which is not that far from Chester? In London, we used to receive deliveries of Trans-Pennine units and odd LNER locos, about twice a year/once in a blue moon, they'd all sell out in about a week, then nothing for another six months. Bala was quite useful for buying odd spare parts like dmu bogies and AC pantographs. Cheers, Brian.

I've never owned any Trix/Liliput Mk1s, although I am aware of them, I was brought up a Tri-ang kid, until I wore long trousers, then I started buying old Kitmaster Mk1s! I remember Trix did a BSO and a Miniature Buffet (RMB), but what was the other one? Completely agree about lowering the Lima 117 chassis, makes a world of difference, suddenly it stops being a toy, and becomes a scale model. Do you cut a square hole in the floor, like me, the motor bogies are more difficult? In a previous life, I used to work at MRM Co.Ltd (King's Cross Models) in York Way, we were the nearest train shop to Eisenmann & Co. in Grays Inn Road, then the Lima importers/distributors, before Riko took over in the mid-1980s. The boss at Eisenmann (Dave Whalton) would often pop into MRM, between bulk deliveries, to pick our railway brains for new ideas, with which he could report back to Lima in Italy. Along with the Deltic, one of our suggestions was the Class 117 dmu, partly because my boss Tony Dyer used to commute on them! When first produced, they only made either a powered or un-powered DMBS in blue or green, the trailer composite, plus white-blue and blue-grey liveries didn't appear until a year or two later, they never made a proper DMS for the other end. It was pointed out to them that the model moulds could be tweaked into producing a 3-car Gloucester Cross Country set, but that idea went on to the back burner. The last Lima model idea we supplied before Riko took over, was for a Class 25/3 diesel, but this was dropped when Hornby announced their very similar Class 25/1 model. I've still got all the photos, taken by staff member Mike Warburton, for this project. Cheers, Brian.

It's looking good Martyn, i'm all for alternative (and quicker methods than my own build), good idea using the 3.8mm scale bodies, the windows will be just that bit closer to Swindon DMU size, perhaps the Mainline BSKs and SKs (with their under-sized windows) could be used in a similar way, if you can still find any secondhand? The main reasons that I made my own sides, were to get the window size right, to get the window-spacing right, to avoid all the joins which would need smoothing down, and to give the sides the correct profile/tumblehome, with straight above the waist, and curved below, whereas Mk1s had continuously curved sides. It hardly shows, it didn't bother my mate Paul James, when he built his Class 123 and 124, and they look excellent. Building the non-gangway full-width cab needn't be that scary, I made my sides full length to include the driver's side window, and angled the ends to match the full-cab profile, then just needed to add the cab front. For my blank fronts, I cut out one over-size square of 20 or 30 thou, scored a horizontal line across and below where the front windows will be, then cut two vertical tapered slots down the middle, but leaving the very middle uncut. Then you can fold, file and glue the cab to the right shape, all a bit like Origami. When set, the new over-size cab can be glued over the ends, in the perfect position. When this has set hard, the excess plastic all around can be trimmed off, and all joints and folds can be reinforced on the inside with spare plastic. The cab windows can then be marked out and cut. I made my cab roofs by chopping up triangles of Mk1 roof off-cuts. Of course you may have already thought up your own method. Your next bit of fun, will be building the centre TCK with first-class spacing and the centre pair of doors-in-windows! I like the seats in your interiors, they're better than mine, my passengers have to sit on cold flat slabs of SP plastic. Incidentally, the 5xxxx and 7xxxx bodies have a lot of common features and similarities, but "John 59401" pointed out to me that the toilet windows on 5xxxx stock are slightly narrower. HTH. Cheers, Brian. (I must stop doing Derby units, and get back to finishing some of my other 126 cars, ah well back to the DMU grindstone)

Hi Martyn, Finding pics of inner ends is always difficult, i've had this problem with several classes of unit, scrapyard pics can be useful. As far as I know, the end steps on Class 126 would have been removed, especially on the 5xxxx series that would run under catenary approaching Glasgow Central, perhaps they have been replaced on the preserved unit? Both 7xxxx and the later 5xxxx vehicle types had LMS/BR shell vents, except for the two final-build 5xxxx buffet cars, which had ridge dome roof vents. On the above Class 125 chassis, I have now revised the routing of the horizontal exhaust pipes, making them flatter without the end up-sweep. More pics to follow. Cheers, Brian.

It's liquid. BK

It's not the retailer's fault, and it's not Royal Mail's fault, the security clamp-down blame lies with the terrorists. We all know we can't send flammable liquids by post, so that cuts out paint thinners, glues, along with cellulose and enamel paints, plus any spray cans. Since the liquid bomb scares on aeroplanes, this Royal Mail ban has been extended to all liquids. The latest shock for me, when ordering from a well-known retailer near Widnes, was that they couldn't send grass flock powder by Royal Mail anymore, it would have to go by courier. Apparently our parcels are now routinely scanned at central RM depots, any liquid or powder detected, is viewed as potential explosives. Quite understandably, when the couriers stop carrying these products, we'll all be stuffed. Such is the times we live in. Cheers, Brian.

I had wondered if I could re-use any of the Rolls-Royce engine moulding on a Hornby 110 dmu, but of course the Class 110 has the smaller six-cylinder engine, so alas any similarity ends there. The Class 125 and 127 driving cars were fitted with pairs of eight-cylinder engines, which were much bigger beasts, coupled to hydro-mechanical transmissions, using hydraulic torque converters to accelerate to 45mph, then switching to direct mechanical drive up to 70mph, today's Sprinters use a very similar system. From a modelling point of view, a lot of this equipment is hidden behind other things like battery boxes and heat exchangers, and even then cylinder heads and manifolds are pointing inwards, so not a lot can be seen. Here are my interpretations of the four sides of the first two driving cars. The big square lump in the middle is the radiator/heat exchanger, the tube sticking out it top left should be the carriage heater, lower down is the exhaust for the nearest engine, which itself is behind these. Large battery box to the right, and the fuel tank for both engines is far left on one side behind the cab, with the vertical straps. BK

With perfect timing, my good friend Mark Jenkins of this parish, has come up trumps with an image from the June 2013 issue of BRILL. This shows the interior of the TS, and confirms my guesstimation of the glazed bulkhead arrangement, many thanks Mark, no more lost sleep for me! Meanwhile, now comes a tricky part of the conversion, namely the rebuild of the under-floor engine detail. I started by completely removing the Lima engine moulding, this represents the smaller 150hp engines, and will be re-used on my ongoing Class 126 fleet. Besides the new detail, I also need to build new box-work to hold the Lima weights, mainly for the powered vehicles, although I built them all the same. Now I have begun to add new battery boxes, fuel tanks and radiators (the big bits), next come the finer details and pipework. BK

The mystery continued about the five internal sections of the Class 125 Lea Valley centre cars, i'm sure allowance was made for first-class, no smoking in both classes, plus a ladies compartment, in the end they were produced as second-class only, with or without smoking, but still with the five sections. So for the transverse bulkheads, should two be glazed and two plain unglazed? On an original Class 116 the trailer compo had plain walls between first and second-class, but glazed within classes. So I started off with plain bulkheads in my Lea Valley centre cars, knowing that two should be glazed, but which two? Photos of these units are not plentiful, clear pics of the trailers are even rarer, finding interior shots is impossible. Luckily I found a pic on the Railcar website, showing one of the two centre cars that went to Derby RTC for fire testing, you can just about make out that all four bulkheads are glazed, which now makes perfect sense. So here's a pic of my six painted Class 125 interiors, first left is an original DMS layout, second from left is a centre TS (which now needs windows in all four bulkheads), third is a DMBS, fourth represents a rebuilt DMS layout with through access, fifth is another centre car, to which i've now added the bulkhead windows, last is another DMBS. The cream tops to the seats represents the leatherette seat tops. The seats immediately behind the cabs should be the regular 3 + 2 pattern, the mouldings are 2 + 2 here to clear the bogie pivot, but i'll leave them for now, they won't be that obvious with the bodies back on. BK

Hi Clive, As far as I could determine, the non-gangwayed Class 116 and 125 DMBS cars (65 seats) had through access as built, from the driver's cab to the guard's van, but I can't see why that was originally necessary? After the Rolls-Royce engine fires in the 1960s, on the ER only the DMS vehicles were rebuilt internally, which involved removing two bulkheads and four middle seats, reducing the seating from 95 to 91. The DMBSs didn't require internal alteration, and the TS cars were left untouched with 110 seats, presumably because there was no immediate danger from burning engines and fuel tanks? (Whereas LMR altered their TSs, lavatory cars already had through access). Class 125 driving cars gained the extra external steps and grab-handles, in all four corners, but again not the ER TS centre cars. The Railcar UK website has proved very helpful with this, and this linked page (below) confirms that only the rebuilt DMS cars warranted a new diagram. Some of the Cheona suburban diagrams don't show an internal cab sliding door, is this an oversight by the draughtsman, or were some units really built like this? Cheers, Brian. http://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-125/numbering

Hi Martyn, Yes, the Cheona book shows the main Class 126 underframe variations, with the correct positions for engines, etc. It also shows the body variations of the 7xxxx and the later 5xxxx series, but beware that some of the small windows should be different widths, as detailed some pages back on this thread. Elsewhere in the book, some liberties have been taken with engines depicted, for example Rolls-Royce and Albion powered units are shown with regular 150hp engines. BK