David Siddall

Indeed, no hijack intended... Alan and I were just dodging the potholes down memory lane ;-)

David

Cow Gum, I didn't realise it was still available. Happy memories from years ago when working as a paste up artist!

Now sold as 'Toucan Studio Gum'... I guess you'll also remember galleys set on an IBM Selectric, Letraset and blue chinagraph pencils then – happy days? ;-)

David

I've never thought about different wheelsets having different sound qualities.  What I have noticed, though, is on my layout the new track I have laid is pinned down to the cork which is itself glued to the baseboard.  The "original" track was glued to the cork and the difference in noise level between the glued and pinned track is really noticeable - the pinned is so much quieter.  I think that will change however when I ballast the track and fix that with dilute PVA.

I've sworn off PVA for ballast fixing Rod. Having gone to the trouble of creating individual 60' track panels I just want to hear wheels on rail joints :-)

I've heard Copydex suggested as an alternative for ballast fixing (if you can tolerate the pong) and I'm also going to try Cow Gum (which smells less offensive). Neither go solid and Cow Gum can be thinned – I know this about the latter from my mis-spent youth in design studios before computers. I spotted a tip (on Warspite's thread 'Minimum space O Guage Layout') which said that when using flexible adhesives pushing a thin blade through the track bed before drilling any holes avoids ending up with a gummed-up drill bit.

David

That's an ingenious solution Rod!

Interesting though that you're still experiencing a bit of noise even with that magnificent ABC drive unit! Depending on speed I've managed to fine-tune the standard Easybuild motor bogie down to between a very muted growl (not unlike the sound of the real thing) and almost silent by patiently tweaking the relationship between the worm and gear. It's also a very smooth starter and slow runner even on a very basic DC controller (a Combi believe it or not!) – not in the Hymek's class but not bad IMO and will probably improve further with running-in :-)

I guess it must be the EB bogie axle spacing which means that sag in the Delrhin chain is inevitable. As you say one less link is too tight – I actually broke a link finding that out! I did think of trying an idler gear to tension the chain in the same way as cam belts are tensioned on cars but felt that it would be too visible. I concluded that any chain slack – which on my 121 isn't for some reason quite as pronounced as on your example – will only be noticeable when viewed at track level which my creaky back and ultimately my layout design wont allow.

Looking forward to seeing the full 4-car unit in all its glory :-)

David

PS:  I'm just wondering whether your solution to keeping the chain out of sight might actually be adding noise issues?

PPS: I'm also wondering whether the EB-supplied wheels are especially sound conductive... I noticed that test-rolling a pair through my ballasted turnout created more racket than when I did the same thing with one of my Hymek wheelsets???  #justarandompassingthought

Bearing in mind how long a certain r-t-r manufacturer is going to be keeping us on tenterhooks for their '08', or the slippage in the due date of the new Class 14 'Teddy Bear' kit I'm so looking forward to, I'm not overly concerned about the extended lead time for the relaunched 'Links' – particularly as they're being produced by a one man specialist supplier (apparently now referred to by the government as a 'micro business enterprise!)

...I'll just look forward to being able to buy some when they're ready.

David

I used the 'sandwich' frame method as explained by Barry Norman in his book Landscape Modelling.  I can recommend it, even though Kelly Bray is not designed to be exhibited.  It has withstood the rigours of 10 years in an unheated outbuilding with no sign of warping.  As Don points out, make sure the frame is deep enough for Tortoise motors, if you are going to use them.  I did not and had to spend time making horizontal mounts for mine.

Agree on all counts with one proviso... the potential for ultra light-weight boards to behave like a guitar's sound box and amplify track noise! Having diligently and time-consumingly created mine using this technique for the first time I now rather wish I'd stuck to 'low-tech'.

If you do go for the 'sandwich frame' method I'd suggest you'll need to factor in some form of underlay and avoid any form of accoustic connection twixt track and boards (...and definitely avoid PVA for securing ballast!). Either that or fill every box van you build with foam and install DCC sound in all your locos ;-)

David

...roughly how many sleepers are there in a 1m length of (60' panel) track? I'm trying to get a measure on how much track a bag of 100 sleepers will build....

Um... the real track experts would know but I had to go upstairs and count them. 2 x Timbertracks 60' panels (just over 1m) = 52 sleepers.

Still reeling slightly from the citation but as my middle daughter frequently reminds me... "Most things are your fault Dad, even if they aren't!" :-)

However... since your new project will undoubtedly be awash with all the atmosphere and superbly observed modelling of Treneglos it'll be a compulsive and inspiring 'follow'. Nuff said really... :-)

David

PS... (and here comes the heresy)... on a compact branch layout which'll only feature short wheelbase motive power you might like to try A5 turnouts rather than B6s?

Well... I might have discovered a use for cork after all. I've just laid some thin sheets 'around' my trackbed using (lots of) double-sided tape and it does seem to have reduced the noise levels a bit – I guess it's acting as a dampener. The racket from my light-weight baseboards, even with track and ballast fixed with Copydex to 5mm foam-core board secured to the boards' surface with double-sided (to raise the track above board level and produce a ballast shoulder) was disappointing to say the least! If I build another layout I'm going back to hernia-inducing, old-fashion 'uncivil' engineering – solid PSE frames and equally solid tops! Apart from being quieter (IMO) they're a (insert expletive of choice here) site quicker to build!

I'm also going to pack any Slaters box vans I build in future with closed-cell foam... they're like little sound boxes otherwise :-/

David

PS: I agree with you Chaz... Copydex isn't all it's cracked up to be. Fortunately I've only done the headshunt and a couple of feet so far. I did a test piece last night using (yet more) double-sided carpet tape to secure a short piece of track to its foam-core trackbed. First layer of ballast stuck to it surprisingly well after a bit of finger tamping, second layer secured using the traditional dilute PVA/drop of washing-up liquid method currently drying. Fingers crossed, the trick appears to be to prevent any PVA coming into contact with the baseboard.

I'm waiting patiently in the queue for some of these 2nd generation Lincs too... for all the reasons stated elsewhere. I've also finally got to the stage of have some stock to uncouple :-)

David

Some time ago, having seen my forum postings, Peter Harvey (trading as PH Designs) asked me if there was anything he could help me with for Dock Green. I asked him for some etched brass gas lights. He sent me a drawing of the fret he designed and a couple of etches followed very promptly.

I have some of Peter's replacement step etches for my Hymek... the etching as you say is superb – and the metal origami's a bit impressive too :-)

David

What a superb-looking model...

... and whilst reading your thread (in some awe I should add) I spotted a familiar view in your layout photos... your back-scene image looks just like the view over the river towards a certain market town at the southern end of the M50 :-)

David

Nice work Chaz! You've also just given me an idea for what to do with my extensive collection of wooden coffee stirrers – I knew they'd come in handy one day :-)

David

...and the destination indicator boxes look like they'll need a bit of attention too after looking at a couple more pics: http://tomcurtisrailgallery.weebly.com/uploads/6/9/0/3/6903499/55033chinnor280609.jpg and http://www.hondawanderer.com/55032_Droitwich_1991.jpg in particular – still Westdale for me though on the basis of the more representative bodyside profile.

David

Very nice work indeed Chaz!

I've got a lever frame in mind and those Ambis levers look like they'll be just the job :-)

David

I reckon we should tip a 'fair play to Easybuild' into the conversation too just so as neither manufacturer gets the idea we're having a pop – just discussing possible enhancements from a personal preference point of view. I was fortunate enough to be able to spend a fair amount of time talking with the Easybuild guys at the Bristol Show last January and they openly and pragmatically acknowledge that their use of a common bodyside profile for all their coaching stock and DMUs (if I remember correctly it's an extrusion to Mk1 profile) allows them to offer a larger range of prototypes more economically.

I'm just happy we've got such a choice of DMUs in (IMO) reasonably-priced kit form – I'm still going to have a try at that cab roof mod' though ;-)

David

Hi David

 

I understand what you mean about the cab-ends ...One thing I do think, though, is the effect that the headcode box can have on the look of the front end. The size of them as manufactured and where they are placed by the modeller does alter the look.

 

I did have a look on Google for 121s and came up with these photos of the prototype of Jon's model!! Hope it's useful.

 

http://www.urban75.o...rdiff-bay-line/

Great reference pic's Rod and much appreciated – they confirm everything I've been thinking and I've not seen them before. And I certainly agree with you about the roof boxes!

Looking at all the photos carefully I feel that trying to get the front edge of of the cab roofs on a Westdale model to sit back flush with the top edge of the cab fronts might be worth a shot. I don't want to detract from anybody's efforts (if I could produce something even a fraction as good I'd be very, very happy) however even Brian Daniel's pair of 121s (photos here and here) show a similar degree of overhang in that area to your model and to Jon's. This suggests to me that perhaps there's something about the kit as it comes which leads builders in this direction?

And Jon, that's a superb model of 121032. I've actually traveled to and from 'the 'Bay' on the real thing. Sadly though, as I recall, it didn't stay as pristine as in the photos Rod found or as you've modeled it for very long after introduction (particularly internally ;-)

David

Well.... I'm thinking that Westdale were at the Bristol Show last year Rod and so hopefully will be again in January. And I suspect there will inevitably be photos as it'll be my first attempt at motive power kit-building in 7-mil and therefore the outcome will almost certainly be enhanced if at some point in the process I allow my friends to point out that I've stuck something important on upside down ;-)

Twixt now and then I've set myself the challenge of looking at as many photos (prototype and model) as I can lay my hands on because I'm not convinced that even Westdale's cab-ends are sufficiently 121-ish for my tastes and I need to work out what it is that's bugging me about them. I have a feeling that the upper section is a bit too vertical as cast and that the corner radii of the cab-front windows may also need reducing. I further suspect that some builders have had a bit of a battle with the join between the top of the cab front and the roof – I've seen a couple of models that seem to have what I can only describe as 'eaves' – if I've got good references and a clear picture in my mind of what things 'should' look like I'm hoping I'll be able to produce a reasonable representation.

Meantime I've planning to build a traverser (third time lucky?), to comple and wire my first full-length run of track (14' turns out to be rather more time-consuming than I'd imagined since I'm hand-building it all apart from in the fiddle yard), powering at least one point and maybe even finishing that blessed brake van!

A 'to do' list that some of the more prodigious modellers on here could probably rattle through on Boxing Day afternoon, but for me... well, we'll have to see ;-)

All the best... David

Thanks for the pic's Rod, much appreciated. I think that confirms several reasons for me to head down the Westdale route.

David

Looks like you've thinned the ends of the blades Rod... and included a 'set' in the curved stock rail (which I didn't realise should be there until too late for my first two turnouts!). Nice, nice, nice... in fact so nice I might just have to get some JLTRT tie bars for my next two :-)

David

PS: I'm guessing that one of your DMUs is Westdale and one is Easybuild? You couldn't post a three-quarter view of the Westdale could you (...if you've got one that is?). I'm now pondering whether attempting to modify an Easybuild 121 to get the side profile closer to prototype is the way to go?

I used three short pieces of Peco Individulay plastic point timbering to replace the missing sections. Unfortunately I haven't managed to make the joints invisible - the point is laid on cork, which has militated against getting a totally level "bodge". However I think the result compares favourably with Peco's nastiness in this area.....

Nicely done sir and yes it does! I'd suggest that those joints are far less visible than you imagine. Viewers will be far more taken with the overall impression than such a tiny detail - indeed I wouldn't even have spotted anything if you hadn't mentioned it (...I was just about to type 'pointed it out' but I've inflicted enough dire puns on your thread already ;-)

David

Grief... if those with the gurt box are the 'new, improved' version from Peco I'm glad I chose to toil along the pothole strewn path road to building my own! And they've still got hinged blades even after the extensive modification you're undertaking down at the push-me-pull-you end! OK, I know (as someone will no doubt point out if I don't acknowledge it) hinged blades are fine if you're happy to model 'heel switches'.

None the less... 1) I'm sure they'll blend infinitely more sympathetically into your superb scenic modelling after the makeover, and 2) you'll be unlikely to end up to be cursing them to quite the extent I did my first handmade attempt when it defied the passage of my Heljan Hymek (fortunately now resolved ;-)

Bon voyage...

David

Modelling on a restricted budget? I 'resemble' that remark ;-)

Really looking forward to seeing how you progress what must be close to the ultimate in 'compact and bijou' 7-mil layouts!

David

 

Any tips on how to remove fibres from your fingers though?

Errr... one of my first jobs (about three and a bit decades ago and therefore not as well covered by 'elf and safety' as it is today) was GRP lay-up using chopped-strand mat for a boat-builder in Dartmouth... only did it for a while but I suspect I still have shards of the stuff embedded in the fleshy bits of the palms of my hands.

Doesn't stop me using a glass-fibre brush though, they're one of my favourite weathering tools. Nowadays though, being older and (allegedly) wiser I do wear light-weight disposable gloves. Have no desire to add to the subcutaneous collection :-/

David

Well 'stone' me, what a truly magnificent load of old ...'cobbles'! I reckon that's that corner of your layout well and truly 'sett' up then Chaz?

Well, someone had to say it..... I know, byeeeee :-)

David

PS: But seriously... a superb piece of patient and determined modelling - fab-u-lous!

The words 'mightily impressive' come to mind in respect of that trackwork!

David

Also really liking those Grampus wagons - might just have to be my next wagon kit :-)