David Siddall

Thought these may be of help.

Nice one Mike... an email to see if BRM have that in their back-copy list is on my 'to do' list :-)

Pleased to hear my layout has inspired you ...someone called Raymond Hodson took them over from Richard Tarpey. I do have a contact number for him so will give him a quick call.

It certainly did Alan... appreciate your offer to give Raymond Hodson a call, it would be great if we could get these autocouplers available again by some means or other.

David

David

Having Googled 'Lincs autocouplings' there appears to be a Gauge O Guild PDF data sheet: http://www.gauge0guild.com/manual/04_D4_2_1_2.pdf which quotes the supplier.

If the supplier (quoted when the Data Sheet was produced as Richard Tarpey) is contactable I'm wondering if he'd be prepared to either produce some more or licence someone else to do so?

What I find so attractive about these (and there's a photo on the Data Sheet to prove it) is that they can be used alongside three links without being intrusive!

David

David,

 

Factory Lane Sidings is my layout and uses the Lincs Autocouplings which I believe are sadly no longer available. I have a few etches left for my own future stock building. The system is very simple and comprises a bent length of steel wire which pivots. When in tension they stay "coupled" and when stock is pushed the magnet attracts the steel wire and allows them to pivot apart. The "hand in the sky" is not really supposed to be there, sometimes the couplings don't always pivot away from each other properly (more down to my poor alignment of the couplings I think)!

 

Alan.

Finding the vid' of Factory Lane Sidings on YouTube was one of my principle inspirations for changing up to 7mm Alan (especially the auto couplings), and I've watched it many times since (usually when I need a reminder of just how appealing a compact 7mm layout can be and how much I want to build my own!!).

Is there any chance you could photograph one of the 'Lincs' etches so we can have a look? I'm pretty sure I can visualise the principle and wouldn't half mind having a go a recreating something similar. Given the 'blackening' treatment I'd have thought the steel wire hooks would be almost invisible from normal viewing distances.

David

I've been admiring the couplings used on the second layout featured in this You Tube video, Factory Lane Sidings. They're visually very subtle and seem to be equally responsive to hidden magnets and 'the great hand from the sky'.

Those photos definitely knock any suggestions that you can't create superb flowing track formations whilst using Peco turnouts into a cocked hat then... very, very nice! (#ducksandruns ;-)

However I cannot think of any dairy traffic in the forest.

Whilst it's not 'the Forest' as such this photo shows a pair of tanks stabled on the 'up' side at Severn Tunnel Junction:http://trainsferriesbuses.co.uk/fast35stj.jpg. Slightly further west this shot was taken at Cardiff: http://trainsferriesbuses.co.uk/7092milk.jpg. Both photos show Hymeks in blue with full yellow ends which should suggest the period.

I remember seeing a book about railways in the Forest of Dean...

It's a surprisingly well-covered area... Amazon currently lists quite a few titles to tempt you :-)

D

Ah, happy days, driving to Hemerdon and Dainton on summer Saturdays in the 1970s/1980s.

Happy days indeed... there's only one word I can use to describe a work-weary Hall attempting to start a heavy freight after being held in the loop at the foot of Dainton and that's 'volcanic'! The 22xx banker being thrashed senseless on the back was pretty impressive too. Pairs of 'Warships' and later single 'Westerns' being caned up the bank with 13 fully-laden Mk1s in tow on those summer Saturdays you mention (particularly if they got checked at the Aller Junction gantry) were also an awe-inspiring experience. The bridge in this pic' was my favourite vantage point - just as I remember it even though this shot claims to have been taken in the 50s (...the comment which accompanies it about the loop's removal seems a bit odd too as I recall it being in place in the late 60s, possibly even the early 70s :-)

I once quite fancied modelling somewhere like Tintern Quarry. Thanks for the tip - I'll do some more research of this area.

Tintern was definitely a Hymek haunt as late as 1971 and here's the evidence - 7094 in blue with full yellow ends on ballast hoppers: www.railphotoprints.co.uk/index/detail/12740/D7094-Y-NetherhopeHalt-050571-DCC390.jpg.html

And here are some nice Tintern Station shots from earlier days including Pannier 6439: www.urban75.org/photos/wales/tintern.html

I'll see if I can find some local evidence for milk traffic.

D

With that stock list I'd suggest you've got an almost inexhaustible list of 'might-have been' locations... according to a quick bit of research principle depot allocations for Hymeks were Bristol (Bath Road), Cardiff (Canton), Newton Abbot and Old Oak Common. Chuck 22s into the mix and you can add Plymouth (Laira) to that list. If you add known 74xx allocations my guess your options cover anywhere between the West Midlands, the eastern Cotswolds and Cornwall!

However... if you want rural with heavy industry and major construction projects in unexpected rural locations through the 60s and early 70s (such as might explain the presence of the Presflos) that suggests somewhere between Bristol and Newton Abbot along the M5 corridor as the A38 was upgraded and the motorway was pushed westwards. Have a look at the area between Exeter and Newton Abbot, and at the Heathfield area north of Newton Abbot in particular. The remains of the Bovey Tracey/Mortenhamstead branches and the Teign Valley Line were surprisingly long-lived. There was a big creamery close by at Totnes and Newton Abbot had its own coal-fired power station (a mini version of Battersea), a large goods yard and there were numerous stone quarries to the north east towards Exeter. OK, I'll admit to a bit of bias here as this was the area in which I grew up and spent countless hours spotting between 1967 to 1975/6 - either perched on the low roadside wall overlooking the western end of Newton Abbot station; or for an even better vantage point dodging staff in the Motorail terminal at the eastern end. My two other favourite locations (easily bikeable) were the occupation bridge by the the signal gantry at Aller Junction (...I'll never get used to it now be referred to as a 'divergeance'), and the little over-bridge by the 'down' goods loop 'starter' at the foot of Dainton Bank.

Another strong contender I'd suggest, particularly if you want to keep your former LMS milk tanks closer to home and justify everything else on your list would be to a location within a triangle drawn with its eastern corner at Gloucester, its western corner at Chepstow and its northern point at say Ross-on-Wye. They say all sorts of things go on in the Forest of Dean and in railway historical terms it seems that they almost certainly did. Coal, stone, dairy produce, industry and construction plus anything else you care (or dare) to think of!

Both of these areas comfortably avoid doing either South Devon or Cotswold 'cute' and would be great contenders for the scenario you're creating ;-)

D

PS: I've lived in and around Monmouth for the last 20 years or so, so the latter area comes recommended on the basis of local historical research of which there's boatloads available - including contemporary video on YouTube.

Not a livery expert but I have seen a shot of a green hymek on the Hemtock branch, not sure if it is 7005 or not but I am not sure if Hymeks were frequent visitors to the branch.

I know it's wandering off-topic a tad but Hymeks at Hemyock are an interesting distraction while I wait to see how long it takes Butanone to secure moulded chairs to plywood sleepers :-)

The Oct 2011 Railways Illustrated article suggests that they were quite frequent visitors. Quote: "...(Hymeks) made more and more appearances if one was available at Exeter".

D

I believe that the Hemyock was hauled by an 03 for a few years, at least on the Tiverton Jct- Hemyock section.

'Lifting the Hem line' (Railways Illustrated, October 2011) totally supports that belief Brian quoting '2140' being the first in September 1963. The article also features some cracking blue diesel era colour photos of 22s (63xx) and 25/0s; plus a black and white of Hymek 'D7005' with small warning panel/white cab window surrounds on empty tanks on Feb 14 1971. Can't see whether there's a solebar stripe so the Hymek could either still be in green or maybe (my favourite) 'chromatic' blue? Any livery specialists know which it was? The article also states '5530' ('31112') worked the milk tanks to Hemyock on October 31 1973 and that the line was given an official loading restriction for class 37s!!! Apparently the line enjoyed a much greater variety of motive power in its final days than during the steam era when it was the preserve of a regular 14xx, '1451' (occasionally subbed by '1405')!

.... a couple of tanks, a mineral or two and perhaps some vans" is exactly what I want to replicate on my freight-only branch line.

Some lovely inspirational shots of 'The Milkie' on the Highbridge Branch here Stephen, plus more delightful short branch freights on the pages to which this one's linked. There IS a shot of an 03 hauling two BR standard brake vans en-route from Bridgwater to Highbridge to collect the milk from Bason Bridge on 16 June 1966 at the bottom of the page but I can't find the pic' I'm sure I've seen of the return working ...wish I'd bookmarked it!

I know I said I wouldn't be looking 'till tonight but I'm taking an early-doors Friday. One of the benefits of self-employment ...though I will have to give myself a verbal warning later for skiving ;-)

I have seen pictures after the withdrawal of passenger services with a class 22 and a midland BG (I think it was a 50' stanier brake) but I can't remember seeing any with a southern brake vehicle. I could be wrong of course.

Was worried the memory was playing tricks on me again but if you've got access to a copy of Paul Karau's 'Great Western Branch Line Termini', Volume 2, there's a cracking full-page shot dated 1952 on page 74 showing what I'm pretty certain is an ex SR 'BY' 4-wheel van attached to three milk tanks being shunted a Hemyock by the branch' 14xx.

Photos of a right old variety of '6-wheel tanker' types throughout the 'Hemyock' section of the book so plenty of evidence for what you're suggesting Stephen.

D

PS: For something a bit different, I'm sure I've also seen a photo of a blue liveried Class 03 diesel shunter on a short train of milk tanks plus BR standard brake van on the Highbridge branch shortly before it closed. Duty calls but I'll see if I can track the pic' down this evening/tomorrow.

I think Slater's already do 7mm plates. Have a look on their site for X7073EX and X7073UD.

Thanks for the item ref. numbers Bill, the lack of an in-site-search facility on the Slater's site means I probably wouldn't have found them otherwise: https://slatersplast...e.php?code=7073. No pics anywhere on a Google image search though so maybe I'll invest a couple of quid to see what they look like. Hopefully like those shown in Trevor H's pic's?

D

....... Those United Dairies plates are very nice.

If the 7mm scale United Dairies plates aren't readily available to order on their own is anyone interested in getting together and commissioning someone to etch some? I'm in for buying at least four pairs and if someone could supply the plate dimensions and a really good 'square-on' prototype photo (so I can identify the font) I'll happily produce the artwork if it helps keep costs down.

D

PS: 'Karhedron' you're definitely talking my language now... 'mixed' trains are the 'raison d'etre' behind my layout plan. Rarely seen in model form but so worth doing! Operationally they add an additional 'shunting puzzle' dimension to a small terminus layout on which activity would otherwise be a bit limited by the late 50s/early60s.

PPS: I think the van type used on the Hemyock runs was an ex-Southern 'BY' (as modelled by Slaters). Unless of course someone knows differently????

These 6 wheelers are quite forgiving through turnouts if you look carefully there is no brake gear on the middle axles, so you can easily put a bit of play in them. I know they go through Peco turnouts without problems.

Thanks for that reassurance Martyn, (...breathes major sigh of relief), my minimum radius turnouts will be A5s - just a tad tighter than Peco's standard 'medium'. Inspired by Hemyock to justify its post-Beeching survival my fictitious branch would have needed a major rethink if that hadn't been the case.

Now according to the photos I've amassed it looks like it would it be acceptable to turn out a couple or three Slaters models in 'silver' (for want of a better word) livery with United Dairies plates. If so... anyone know where I can get the plates?

Hardly a hijacking dear boy... more like you just managed to ask all the questions I didn't know I needed the answers to yet! I'll be following avidly. One (several) of these are on my shopping list and they'll have to run through my turnouts so the first one aint that far away ;-)

And ooo errr! Look at those 'Baby Warships'!

D

If there was ever a colour chart for canal water I doubt you'd find blue on it ... brown, nearly black (on the industrial BCN), even rusty red, but in 30+ years on the cut I've never seen blue. To misquote Terry Pratchett, whilst urban canal water is generally thin enough to flow there are occasions when its only slightly too runny to plough!

Good on ya 'Black Sheep', so many modellers seem to think that as long as you plonk a narrow boat on a bit of water the rest of the canal infrastructure is OK as a bit of a caricature. Hope you'll post some photos when you're finished? Here are links to a couple of particularly nice photos I found on-line which show an unladen full-length 'motor' alongside a wharf on the Shropshire Union Canal, both illustrate the various height relationships I was talking about...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-D1tTIvgsp58/TYD3iNfl5iI/AAAAAAAAEio/EpKCZiNgmpg/s1600/Wheaton+to+Market+Drayton+002.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-38mG-tHvU-w/TYD3P8KiYvI/AAAAAAAAEik/68ZE1lt50h4/s1600/Wheaton+to+Market+Drayton+001.JPG

Today's canals are a great deal shallower than they were in the days of commercial traffic and if modelling this scene it would be reasonable to depict the water levels as up to the bottom edge of the wharf-side coping stones.

When fully-laden with a heavy cargo a 'motor' like this would have regularly run with the water up to the strake which runs from below the colourfully painted top-bend on the bow back to the counter (stern) which would leave only the white-painted top panel on the counter showing above water. The topsides of the hold would be a foot or so above and parallel to the surface (in fact you can just make out a waterline mark in the first photo where a some point this has recently been the case). Some captains ran them so low in the water (particularly when carrying coal) that splash boards were required to prevent water coming over the sides and into the hold.

David

Can I make one suggestion, not so much to do with the material you use for the water but with the way it's presented. Inland waterways water levels are pretty consistant within each length between locks and rarely more than a couple of feet or so below the level of towpath or wharf surfaces. A fully-loaded 70' narrowboat would work with a minimal freeboard (again about a couple of feet - or less!) and when offloading by hand, as was frequently the case, it would have been unnecessarily hard work if the contents of the hold had to be lifted higher than was absolutely necessary.

As a canal enthusiast and a former narrowboat owner one of the things that tends to disappoint when I see a canal modelled is dock-like walls towering above narrowboats. This would only have been the case in deep walled cuttings, empty locks or where boats ventured into seagoing territory such as in some of the former Port of London docks where they were brought alongside larger ships for cargo transfer.

...there could indeed be a lot of work involved, it could be worse, if you modelling in 4mm 'OO' (sic) then you would have the sleepers and sleeper spacing to have to contend with too!!

 

Definitely BTDT... my 'improved' Peco OO/HO pointwork took forever (and was somewhat frail after the extensive surgery). One of the reasons for the jump to 7mm/O gauge is that I should now at least be able to see what I'm hacking about if I choose to head down that road!

JUst think of them as old heel switches...

After a hasty Google of 'heel switches'...

Good call Don! It's clear that there's even a UK prototype for Peco's two-part hinged point blades! Kieth Norgrove's 'Grosvenor Sidings' web site features a photo of a GWR 15' 'loose heel switch' at Old Oak Common taken in 2000: http://www.norgrove.me.uk/resources/images/tierods-4.jpg.

So my next challenge is careful examination of prototype photos of BR(W) branchline track layouts to see if I can spot one which still had 'loose heel switches' in the period from the mid' 1950s to mid'1960s? I can already cite the Fairford branch as featuring full signalling and operational signal boxes into the latter part of that era on my 'justification for including things in a model' list. If I can identify an example of a 'loose heel switch', attempting to emulate the Ramchester team's superb efforts (but with the visible over-centre spring assembly removed) could well be the way to go.

Though (dammit) I'm still not certain that anything originating from Beer will be capable of replicating the flow and geometry I see in a prototypical formation when viewed from above... well, not without considerable time, effort and butchery anyway? Decisions, decisions...

 

PECO points can be cosmetically improved as we have done on Ramchester but it took a lot of time and effort. I doubt if it would have taken any longer to use C&L parts.

Now that looks the business (great detail photos too)... just the sort of evidence I was hoping for, thanks 'HSB'! However I was heading towards the same conclusion as you about the amount of work involved. However, if I could lay hands on some cheaply enough second-hand it'd certainly be worth a go on the basis of what you've achieved. When I was working in 'OO' I removed everything visible in the mechanism leaving just the tie bar and managed all the latching and switching from point-motors. I guess it depends on the importance one places on the view from above – I see from the photos of 'Stapley' in the current 'Hornby Magazine', and now from your photos, that Peco have persisted in two-part blades in 'O'. Hmmm???

I'm just about plucking up courage to order my first C&L 'turnout in a bag' David... if you (or anyone else) have any hints and tips they'd like to pass on about your experience with C&L's offering they'd be much appreciated. Particularly whether their laser-cut timber bases might be a better option than plastic sleepers?

Likewise, if anyone has any thoughts about whether or not Peco's O guage points can be made to come closer to hand-built appearance that would be appreciated too.