gresley

Hello Gresley

 

I wonder if the article was referring to the batch built in 1959 that had roller bearings from new?

 

Brian

Hi Brian and BR(W),

Regarding Brake vans fitted with roller bearings.   There is a picture of Brake Van No B954874 (page 46 of British Railway Wagons  No 5 by G. Gamble).   The caption states " was built to diagram 1/507, lot 327, at Darlington works in 1959. It has roller bearings and hydraulic buffers."   Alas, there is no mention of its use.

gresley

Hello again, Gresley.

 

In his book, King's Cross Lineside, 1958-1984, David Percival wrote (p.68):

 

In order to improve deliveries from the last-mentioned port, roller bearing axleboxes were fitted to a batch of the most modern vans in the late 1950s. Known as 'blue spots', from their prominent identification marking, the vans were rostered at the beginning of 1958 to the 12.30pm from Aberdeen and the return 'empties' from King's Cross at 11.40am.

 

I will be speaking with David in the next few days and will check this with him.

 

Brian

Hello Brian,

Apologies.   I stand corrected.   My source was a publication, NOT a BR pamphlet, and it states that the roller bearing fitted vans were put into service in 1959/60, on the Aberdeen - King's Cross fish trains specifically,  there being 3 sets which worked in a "merry go round" system.

gresley

Hello Gillbert

 

I have extracted the following from some BR Circulars of 1958. It looks to me as though you are perfectly OK to run Blue Spots in 1958.

 

Brian

 

4 Jan 1958       

Fish Vans E87000-E87274 urgently required by C&WE, Doncaster for equipping with roller bearing axleboxes and lettering “To work between Aberdeen and King’s Cross only”.

 

15 Mar  1958

Fish Vans E87000 to 87274 not bearing the Blue Spot identification are still required at Doncaster

 

2 Aug 1958

Aberdeen – London Fish Vans still sought:

E87086, E87114, E87131, E87161, E87179.

 

23 Aug 1958

Aberdeen-London Fish Trains. E87179 still sought by C&WE Doncaster.

I believe that the Insulated Fish Vans were not actually fitted with roller bearings until 1959/60.

gresley

 One of the things that Andy Rush told me was that there was virtually no fruit traffic on the ECML, as London got its fruit from the South and South West. If I have any fruit vans at all, they should be attached to local services. Pity really, as I rather like them.

Alright Gilbert, so, no Fruit vans.   I see the way things are going.    10 Fruit vans = 1 new loco (mixed traffic).

By the way, there were NO Blue Spot fish vans in 1958, so be careful which ones you acquire.

gresley

The tankers are sitting there while I decide what to do with them Jonathan. They used to be in one of those things I misguidedly thought to be a goods train, until our dear departed friend Andy told me otherwise. He wasn't able to find any train in which they might be seen, though there was a petrol installation at Huntingdon, and there are photos of tankers sitting in the siding to the North of the station obviously waiting to go somewhere. Having said that, I haven't found a single photo of a goods train at PN with them in the formation.

 

As I said, I'm still pondering, but I think their most likely destination is Classifieds, along with some sand wagons I bought years ago because it seemed like a good idea at the time. It looks as though both Bachmann and Hornby fish vans are imminent, so I shall need funds for a reasonable length rake of those. The cassettes are already waiting....

Gilbert,

Fish vans, yes, but what about all those fruit vans as well ?????

gresley

Please forgive me, Gilbert. I need the answer to a Great Northern question and its hardly worth a thread in itself. You and your readers will be the most knowledgeable.

 

Q: What sort of roof did Copley Hill have before it was modernised? North-light or otherwise?

 

Thank you,

 

Tony.

Hi Tony,

Must say, you come up with the most difficult questions.   Where do you dig them up from ????

Anyway, "you aint beat me yet".   Bit complicated but here goes:

Information quoted comes from 2 pubs, namely Great Northern Engine Sheds, Vols 1 and 3, by Roger Griffiths & John Hooper, Vol 1, Irwell Press, 1989,

Vol 3, Booklaw, 2000.

Vol 3 contains a photo showing remains of a section of roof after war damage, (page 79).   Not very helpful.   However, on page 81, there is a description of the building of Copley Hill Shed.

"Copley Hill engine shed incorporated a number of features that were revolutionary for the GNR.   First, the brick-built, 5-road, 305ft x 75ft depot was of the through type and featured a transverse pitch roof.   In adopting that style of covering, the GN abandoned the then standard 'northlight' pattern in favour of a design used only once before on the railway, in 1862, for the 8-road satraight shed at King's Cross "Top Shed".

Vol 1 contains a photo of top shed, (page 17).    Whilst the building shown is not specifically named in the caption, the view, together with the description given on page 13  of the actual building of the new shed, seem to identify the roof of the building in the picture.

"The new building was in brick, with a roof of a pattern new to the GNR - four slated transverse pitches, each with a smoke collecting trough running along the ridge for nearly the entire width of the building, and venting via a square chimney above each road."

I appreciate that this is a bit long-winded, but hope it is of some help for you.

Regards,

gresley

Gilbert,

Re your last sentence above:   TOO RIGHT YOU WOULD !!!!!!!

Stuart

The A5 is hauling a GCR non-corridor coach (I built one for Greenfield), probably heading for Marple. I've travelled on the modern looking EMU's to Glossop as well as the ancient looking EMU's from Oxford Road in 1958. In those days both carried EMU green, which was a kind of malachite shade.

 

Shame the sounds cannot be replicated. Like the zinging sound of coach wheels (seemed to affect Gresley bogies) as they passed through check rails on points (I think)....And the bark and ear pearcing whistle of GCR engines and clanking coupling rods.

Larry,

Can you please help ?   The GC coach behind the A5.   Do you know the Dia No and also, do you know of a source for kits and builders ?

Stuart

Regarding lamps, I have always felt that those available seemed overscale and therefore looked far too big on the front of locos. Any reccomendations as to any make of lamp that is correctly to scale (4mm)?

ScRSG,

Have you tried the lamps from the 3mm society ?

gresley

This afternoon's batch are around Nottingham and York.  Some are not of the usual railway subjects.

 

A number of the images have small white speckles.  The original prints were on a lustre paper which has a slightly rough surface and causes pinpoint reflections during scanning.  So far I've not found a way around this.

 

Bestwood Colliery J39 64750 c1953 JVol2068.jpg

Bestwood Colliery J39 64750 c1953 JVol2068

 

I know the next image has been on RMWeb before, in another thread, but I have found that this is a much better, undamaged print and it forms part of a set, now shown together.

 

Nottingham Wilford Bridge GCR Mr Everett BR Civil Engineers Dept Barrow in Furness about to inspect bridge 1953 JVol2069.jpg

Nottingham Wilford Bridge GCR Mr Everett BR Civil Engineers Dept Barrow in Furness about to inspect bridge 1953 JVol2069

 

Nottingham Wilford Bridge divers boat 1953 JVol2071.jpg

Nottingham Wilford Bridge divers boat 1953 JVol2071

 

Nottingham Wilford Bridge Mr Everett surfacing 1953 JVol2072.jpg

Nottingham Wilford Bridge Mr Everett surfacing 1953 JVol2072

 

York A1 60121 Silurian down ecs 1953 JVol2075.jpg

York A1 60121 Silurian down ecs 1953 JVol2075

 

York A1 60121 Silurian down ecs 1953 JVol2073.jpg

York A1 60121 Silurian down ecs 1953 JVol2073

 

York J27 up goods 1953 JVol2074.jpg

York J27 up goods 1953 JVol2074

 

York B16 up goods 1953 JVol2076.jpg

York B16 up goods 1953 JVol2076

 

 

York D49 pass Leeds to Scarborough 1953 JVol2077.jpg

York D49 pass Leeds to Scarborough 1953 JVol2077

 

David

David,

Thanks for those stunning pics in York station - the way it used to be.   Brilliant !!!!!

Stuart

Thanks Gresley,

 

I think I'm inclined to agree with you, despite Dad's catalogue!  I've had several notes about the loco, split roughly 50:50 for V2 and A3!

 

David

David,

According to Yeadon's Register, V2s,, the replacement of the monoblocs by separate cylinders began in 1956, the first loco so fitted was No 60886 during Apr/May 1956.

(see pages 20 and 22).

gresley

This afternoon's photos are a mix of Great Central, Liverpool and one at Kings Cross.  Just for a change there are no freight trains and some photos are taken from a train.

 

Nottingham Victoria south end 1951 JVol1345.jpg

Nottingham Victoria south end 1951 JVol1345

 

Nottingham Victoria south end from train 1951 JVol1293.jpg

Nottingham Victoria south end from train 1951 JVol1293

 

South of Weekday cross from train 1951 JVol1294.jpg

South of Weekday cross from train 1951 JVol1294

 

Arkwright Street station from train 1951 JVol1295.jpg

Arkwright Street station from train 1951 JVol1295

 

Liverpool St B1 1286 1948 JVol1292.jpg

Liverpool St B1 1286 1948 JVol1292

 

Liverpool Street B1 1285 1948 JVol1299.jpg

Liverpool Street B1 1285 1948 JVol1299

 

Liverpool Street B1 E1057 c1948 JVol1300.jpg

Liverpool Street B1 E1057 c1948 JVol1300

There are not a lot of photos of this loco, 61057, as it was scrapped in 1950 following a collision in fog while hauling (I think) a Peterborough to Liverpool St parcels train.  In this photo it appears to be numbered E1057.  It is known a number of locos around this number carried the E prefix for a short time.

 

Kings X shed K2 and V2 c1948 JVol1317.jpg

Kings X shed L1 and V2 c1948 JVol1317

 

Once again there should be some more this evening.

 

David

Last photo (Kings X shed L1 and V2 c1948 JVol 1317)   I think that is an A3, not a V2.   I dson't remember any V2s with seperate cylinders at that time.

gresley

Del,

 

I have no experience of cassettes in wood or aluminium although the latter is used on exhibition layouts and I maintain an open mind, perhaps Gilbert can research pricing and supply but I'm sure that whatever medium he chooses my workshop remains at his disposal, I have a good pillar drill and other useful tools and once the warmer weather arrives we can start production.

 

I'm just glad I'm Gilbert's mate and not his accountant, this post and we members seem to be conspiring against his bank account, if it's not another 'must have B17' it's another dozen coaches!

 

Dave

Dave,

I can think of worse things to overload the bank account.   B 17 AND another dozen coaches ?   Is that all ?????

Stuart

The image looks to be copied from the Johnson Foxline book I referred you to in the other thread you asked the question in (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57964-msl-signalboxes/?p=954408).  There is quite a lot of info beneath each photo as you'd expect from Eddie Johnson.  In fairness to Eddie & Foxline, I'd refer you to the book.

Alastair,

Many thanks.   Have now got a copy.

gresley

:blush:  Thanks Chris, shows how firmly I'm stuck in the past doesn't it? In my day, a camera was just that, I had no idea it could do videos. I suppose that means I now have to find the manual and learn how to do it. I wonder how many other things it can do that I don't know about?

Gilbert,

You'd be surprised !!!   I believe that there are even some mobile phones that you can do almost anything with -  except telephone !!!   and cameras, well . . . .

Stuart

Fatneck,

Many thanks for the pics.   Any idea of the date of the first pic ?

gresley

any photos of Hadfield West 'box ?

Located on the western end of the Up platform.

gresley

I've been looking to see if there are any manufacturered in 3mm but haven't found anything yet.

Yes there are.   I've got some.   Go to the 3mm Society.

gresley

Definitely not. DJH.

some how that dome appears to be slightly large (high).   Is it right ?

gresley

Hi Dave

 

Are you suggesting Gilbert rebuilds PN in O gauge, now that would be some layout.

 

Ian

. . . . . he's already got his eye on the place next door.

gresley

Coachman, Gilbert,

Having watched your video of London Streets, I must say that it is VERY interesting.   Of course, having "been there and done it " so to speak, it brings back many memories of a time when life was full of interest.   Girls/Ladies all wearing skirts or dresses - they actually had legs that you could see (some more, some less), instead of the all pervading unisex jeans of today.   Motor vehicles of a far greater variety.   Streets not filled with litter, (I even spotted a couple of Council Road Sweepers going about their chores).   People didn't throw their litter down as they do today.  I suppose that there was a general attitude of "self discipline" and  respect and consideration for both people and property in those days compared to today.   It all made for a more pleasant way of life.   Of course there was the negative side as well, but not so much nor so aggresive as today.

Of course, one could go on, and point the finger at the reasons, but that is not for this thread.   Sufficient to say that those who know TW, will also know his views.

gresley

Gilbert,

 

"You know it makes sense", play with the B17 for a while but let Tim work his magic on it.

 

There's been a fewcomments made on the nostalgia of the end of steam compared with preserved steam but the fact is, if we could somehow transpose the 1960's railway on to the preserved scene I genuinely believe visitor numbers would plummet. Remove the rose tinted specs. Look beyond what perhaps we would like to remember the fact is, B.R.in the 1960's as I recall was (at least in The West Riding and I don't imagine even the Western Region was any better), totally grotty.

 

I cannot remember where I left my reading glasses these days but I have a vivid memory of the steam railways and the infrastructure through which it operated, there was a pervading smell of fish, the stations were painted in an overall battleship grey if you could see the paint under years of soot and neglect, until The Beatles we lived in a world consisting of shades of grey. We knew nothing better so we just accepted life as it was but glamorous it wasn't.

 

It doesn't actually detract from my own desire to re-create the period but after Gravytrain has spent countless hours re-creating Peterborough North Station and Norman has built such perfect track you just cannot run spotless locos and perfect rolling stock (The Elizabethan excepted) even your beloved B17's.With all that in mind when I visit this Friday I'm bringing half a pound of wet fish to strap under the bay platforms to help to further recreate that genuine 1958 atmosphere.

Personally, I think that the 50s were far more interesting than the 60s, when it all just fell apart. Well, certainly after about 1963.

gresley

Ah...keyboard dyslexia, I thought it was only me.

 

I think it's something to do with getting your left hand going too quick for your lright, you hit the "a" before the "h"......my favourite trick at the moment is to miss capital letters, despite having hit the shift key, I've released it too early...

 

Nive pics again, btw, but were there any other A1's besides Bois Roussel?

Where's Alcazar? Where's Madge Wildfire? Meg Merrilies?

Yes, there were, and I've got some of them !!!!!!!

gresley

One last comment on the above. I timed the "shrieking whistle". A full 12 seconds.

gresley

PS. Gilbert, there are also some recordings made at Peterborough in 1958. Very good and atmospheric. Nothing dubbed.

My recollection is that the GN whistle, although rather feeble when just "peeped", certainly kept one informed. I certainly knew a non stop train was approaching Retford or Grantham when the driver just let the whistle rip continuously. Very high pitched, and loud too.

Amongst my library is a collection of Argo Transacord EPs and LPs. On the one entitled "Gresleyx Pacifics" Side two consists of recordings made at Retford South Crossing during August 1956. The second track has the following description: "The bells of nearby Ordsall Church are drowned by the shrieking whistle of A3 No 60088 Book Law, hurtling over the crossing with the Down "White Rose" (London - Leeds, Bradford)".. I can assure you that anyone hearing this would never say that the A3s had a "peep,peep" whistle. Having just descended Gamston Bank, I would estimate the speed to be around 70 mph at least. That crossing certainly took sopme stick !!!!

gresley