Chuffer Davies

Hi Tony et al, As a still relatively recent convert to modelling the LNER and now having built several Ivatt locomotives, the one thing that still fills me with dread is bending the reverse curves on a smokebox wrapper. Can I ask you and others on this thread your approach to forming these? There must be an easier way than how I’m doing it with the shank of a drill bit held in a vice. Regards, Frank

Hi Tony, 3ft is fine in EM. The wheel standards are common to both OO fine scale and EM and it is these that govern how effectively the wheels hold the track. The side play on the rear pony truck may need controlling depending on the clearance between the frames but otherwise everything else is much the same as for OO. Frank

Hi Clem, I recently ordered some wheels From Ultrascale for the test build of my J1 and they were delivered within 3 months. Still a long time compared to other suppliers but given the rate at which I build models as long as I order them at the planning stage they always arrive before I actually need them. Ultrascale are my first choice for wheels given their superb quality but because the range is more limited than that of other suppliers they don’t always have a suitable wheel for the prototype being modelled. It might be worth trying them again next time you need some wheels. Regards Frank P.S. Usual disclaimers apply, just a very satisfied customer.

Hi Richard, As far as taps are concerned the difference between the three types is the aggressiveness of the taper, I.e. how far you have to insert the tap before the thread is fully cut. Unless you are working in restricted space or a blind hole then a taper is sufficient for your needs. The die is used to cut a male thread e.g. the thread on a bolt. You will need some kind of die holder to ensure the die is 'squeezed' shut sufficiently to cut the required depth of thread. If you have a lathe and money isn't an issue then a tailstock die holder is the ideal but I get away with a normal die holder and if I'm using the lathe I just rest the back of the die holder against the face of the tail stock. You need to ensure the die holder is the correct size for the diameter of the die you are using. Frank

The extra weight of the loaded tanks may be all that is needed to make these vehicles run reliably. I’d try that before going to the hastle of fitting compensation units. As Tony has said before compensated vehicles are not particularly happy negotiating Peco pointwork (other than the new code 75 bullhead track) so unless you are planning to use finescale pointwork you are best avoiding compensation. Regards, Frank

Hi Jack, You appear to have been slightly confused by statements previously made on this blog. A live chassis (or split frame chassis) only causes a problem for DCC when one or both of the motor's electrical connections are earthed directly to the frame. The old Hornby Dublo and Triang loco's are typical of this construction, I have also seen this on the old Mainline split frame models. Things are always okay for conversion to DCC if there are individual wires going to both sides of the motor. The problem that sometimes occurs with metal bodied locos is where circuitry associated with the DCC chip is shorted out by coming into contact with a body that is electrically live to the chassis. This risks destroying the chip. The risk can be mitigated by ensuring the chip is either fully insulated by surrounding it with some kind of sleeving, or by anchoring it firmly in place so that it can't accidentally come into contact with the body. You don't need to buy any replacement wheels. I would recommend that you initially build your model with a standard analogue chassis, one wire from the motor connected directly to the frames and the other wire going to the copper clad pad on which your pickups are mounted. Once you have finished building/testing the chassis and are ready to convert it to DCC all you need do is replace the existing wires with the leads on the DCC chip, The input wires connect to the frames and the copper clad pad and the output wires go to the motor. Don't forget to ensure that the chip itself is properly insulated so that it can't accidentally touch any metal parts and all will be well. If the loco then runs in the wrong direction swap the wires connected to the motor around. Hope this helps. Frank .

Amazing stuff John. I particularly like the idea of the pigeon vans but in order for the viewing public to appreciate the variety of traffic passing through Clayton I think we will need to provide some kind of narration for the time table that they can read as they watch the trains go by. Another job to add to the list..... Frank

Hi, thanks for your kind remarks. The chassis is something I’ve drawn up myself and had etched by PPD. I’ve only catered for EM and P4 because of the way the loco chassis is balanced which won’t work in OO. There wouldn’t be room for the compensation beams and gearbox between the frames in OO. The loco is compensated but the tender uses CSB. I intend to make chassis etches available at cost to anyone wanting one. They will then need to source their own brass wire and tube etc to create a complete kit of parts. Cheers, Frank

Well it has been a long time hasn't it? Covid 19 has really impacted our project. We have had no access to the layout since the end of March because the sports hall in which our club rooms are housed is shut until further notice. This does not mean that there has been no progress however. We are taking the opportunity to build stock for the layout with Russell knuckling down to building his quint articulated set and I have been busy designing the artwork for the next locomotive project: the J1. John (Smart) is also threatening to get on with his Quint set and I'll be threatening him if he doesn't..... He is currently doing a deep dive on the time table and from time to time he lets us know about various excursions that ran to or through Clayton. Whilst waiting for the J1 to be etched I have used the time to build a new chassis for a Bachman Atlantic (C1). This is now complete bar some 16BA nuts that I need to detail the bottom of the spring hangers on the trailing axle. I need to arrange for the chassis to be professionally painted because the lining of the frames and wheels is way beyond my abilities. I have now added the missing detail: vacuum pipes, etc… and hope to send it off for painting shortly. The version 1 metal for the J1 arrived from the etchers this morning and I am looking forward to starting the test build. But at the same time as drawing up the J1 artwork I took the opportunity to draw up some components for the screw reversers for the J7's that I have otherwise completed. This afternoon was spent building the first reverser and I am really pleased with the outcome. To give you an idea of scale the wheel is 5mm diameter. I hope I can build the 2nd as well as the first. In between times I have made a start on building a B4 (Immingham). This loco will be used to pull an excursion that will pass through but probably not stop at Clayton. The kit is from the Great Central Models range designed specifically for P4 and EM modellers. So far I have built the chassis which is now running successfully. I have made a start of the superstructure but it is proving heavy going. If I am being kind I would have to say that the kit is 'challenging'. Not only is it quite detailed, its design is quite different from anything I have built previously which adds to the complexity. I will be happy to take a break to test build the J1. I will continue to update this blog as and when we have something worth sharing. In the mean time I wish you all good health, and I hope to see you at an exhibition in the not too distant future. Regards, Frank

Just stunning!

Hi Tony, Sound advice indeed but despite your in-depth summation there was one case which I think needs further clarification. I was taught that when soldering white metal to brass or n/silver using low melt solder (to protect the white metal) the hard metal should first be tinned with normal solder (145 etc..). Low melt solder does not attach well to brass etc. but will form a strong bond with a tinned surface. The other point worth expanding on is the benefit of using a high wattage soldering iron. The more powerful the iron the better its ability to maintain the temperature at the tip. As soon as an iron touches the material to be soldered heat will be transferred. The lower the power of the iron the more it will struggle to recover the temperature to that required to enable the solder to flow into a joint. Power is not the same as size.. I use a 75 watt temperature controlled iron but it is not physically large. As a result I can use it to solder everything I need to on a 4mm model from small white metal components to large brass boilers and frames and everything in between. Frank

I echo Ade’s sentiments. We’ve missed your contributions Tom. Good to have you back on RM Web. If no one else sorts you out with regards D&S roofs I can put you in touch with our expert on Clayton but he is not an RM Web contributor. PM me if you want an introduction. Frank

This reminds me of an occasion several years ago when we were researching Clayton railway station. The railway was closed in 1963 and completely demolished soon after to make way for housing. We set up a stand in the local church during the annual Clayton Dickensian Market with a display of pictures, maps and some static models in the hope that some of the visitors might have additional photographs of the station that they could share with us. The display generated significant interest amongst those attending the event, but despite one of only two main roads running through the village being called Station Road I was taken aback by the number of visitors who were genuinely amazed to hear that there had once been a railway station in Clayton. How could they not join the dots? Sadly despite the number of people visiting our display we failed to gain any new information about, or photographs of the station. We still had a most enjoyable day out though. Frank

Inspiring work indeed. Congratulations on a job well done. Frank

Hi Doug, You are a man after my own heart. I too like to build the underside of my models to match the level of detail on top. But as you have discovered this introduces new challenges when it comes to pick ups. Given your situation you might consider an alternate approach to fitting wiper pickups that removes them from the underside of the model. There are several methods I have seen over the years but the method I have used the most is illustrated in the following diagram. I use phosphor bronze strip but I expect Nickel Silver would be just as good. The pickup is soldered to the copper clad which itself is firmly glued to the top edge of the inside face of the frame. There are two things to watch out for with this approach. The first is that the curve at the top of the spring mustn't be so tight as to allow it to touch the top of the frame. The other thing to ensure is that the spring doesn't short against the underside of the footplate but this is unlikely to be a problem with a OO chassis. Regards, Frank

Thought you’d like to know that I received a delivery from PPD on Saturday so they are back in production albeit at reduced capacity currently. Frank

Hi Michael, I accept that the basic design that you use in your kits is much simpler than installing horn guides and I imagine also guarantees avoiding tight spots due to discrepancies between coupling rod and horn guide spacings. I think your (full compensation) system in the NB shunter is ingenious in its simplicity of construction. But the key point I was trying to make, and which you have confirmed, is that twin beams on their own do not provide full compensation. I can imagine that the twin beam approach has some benefits for P4 modellers and will offer an improvement over a rigid chassis for keeping the model on the track. But in OO and EM compensation is not required to improve track holding as Sir has often demonstrated (if not remonstrated). In these gauges the primary, if not only, benefit of compensation is to keep the wheels firmly planted to improve current collection. Anything less than full compensation will allow the weight to lift off one or more of the wheels on uneven track reducing (or preventing) their effectiveness for collecting current. This is the point that I am banging on (and on) about. I am desperately trying not to be critical, I am just trying to present information as accurately as I can in the hope it may help others to understand the principles behind compensation. Regards, Frank

Hi, The compensation scheme used in this model is unusual in that it breaks the rules. Compensation is normally designed around the three legged stool principle but this design delivers four points of support which means that it still cannot guarantee to keep all wheels firmly planted on the track. A twin beam configuration is normally paired with a central fixed beam on the third axle. Potentially all the complexity of compensation without the benefits. To correct this the modeller would either need to replace the twin beams with a single central beam (I realise that this is not easy because of how the axle bushes are arranged) or compensate the third axle. Regards, Frank

Motor? Luxury! When I started out I had to use a rubber band to power me models, you know those the postman dropped on the path outside t' front door......

Hi Michael, I'll put in a bid for one of your Q4's as well please... How far down your list is it? Cheers, Frank

Is this the LRM horseshoe tender? In which case I have one of these to build for a model of a J1 so thank you for a heads up on the construction. I have just completed the design for etches for the J1 because there is no kit currently available; unless someone on here knows differently. But thinking about it, if you do know of a kit please don’t tell me now after al the work I’ve put in on CAD. Regards to all, Frank

A lovely looking model indeed, congratulations. I personally take exception to your describing the American system as ‘the lazy option’, perhaps that’s why you have had such problems with its utilisation because as with any method it requires an understanding of the workings of the method to get it to work reliably. As a proponent of the American system, who uses it all the time combined with compensation, I take exception to being labelled as a lazy modeller and instead would describe the American system coupled with compensation as ‘simple elegance’ eliminating the need for what I always felt were fiddly and unsightly pickups on my models. Once again congratulations on a fabulous model. Frank

I think caution should be applied to old ECM controllers but it sounds like the circuitry was updated after Portescap units were launched. My experience suggests the old H&M controllers are fine as long as you don’t use half wave. Frank

Here again, if my memory serves me correctly, when they were first made available customers were advised against using Relco with Portescap motors. Regards, Frank