Chuffer Davies

I’m not sure thrilled is the term that I’d use. We already have spares enough, it is the motors on the layout now that worry me as, unlike LB, wholesale replacement of the point motors on LSGC is not a practical option. Regards, Frank

I'm delighted to report that on Thursday at the Shipley club I was able to complete the laying of the track on the spiral. It still has to be wired up electrically but as I had half an hour to spare the child in me decided to have a play. The attached YouTube link is the result of my 5 minutes of weakness. Hopefully the next time you see anything moving on the spiral it will be under power but there is quite a lot of work to be progressed under the baseboards before that can happen. Whilst others in the team continue to lay the plain track in the remainder of the fiddle yard, my attention will at long last return to cutting the track across the base board joints in the goods yard and adding the cosmetic chairs to disguise the soldered joints. We have a deadline at the end of June at which point we will have to temporarily collapse the layout to enable Leicester South GC to be erected in order for some remedial work to be carried out in preparation for the club's exhibition in September. Clayton will not be on display at the exhibition this year because we are putting on the clubs 40th anniversary show this year and we need the space for other exhibits. Whist the layout is collapsed we will take the opportunity to start the under board wiring on Clayton because this is much easier to achieve with the boards upended giving easy access to both sides. The J7 artwork has been sent to the etching company for processing. Apparently this company takes about 6 weeks to turn round orders so it will be July before I can start the test build. As I predicted the preparation of the assembly instructions did highlight a mistake in the artwork in that whilst packing the components to achieve the smallest possible amount of unused metal I omitted to copy through the brake hangers. With even more joggling I eventually managed to make space for them. I have now discovered that the tender I need for one of my planned J7 models appears not to be available in kit form. The Yeadon book describes this as an LNER Type C tender which was designed by Stirling. I am now going to have to investigate whether there is sufficient information available for me to be able to draw up artwork for a new tender kit. A definite case of one step forwards two steps back! Anyone got any info they can share? Regards, Frank

It’s lucky then that Russell didn’t see the King that I’d also taken down to club in order to check the front overhang on the outside of the curves on the spiral. I’d packed it away before he arrived. Of course as you know there is a precedent for running GWR rolling stock on the Queensbury line in the form of a GW diesel rail car that was trialed (unsuccessfully one imagines) on the line to see whether diesel traction would offer a suitable and cost effective alternative to the aging GN stock on the line. Unfortunately this is outside our chosen period for modelling Clayton so we won’t be running one on the layout under normal circumstances, but as I have a suitable model we might do a one off special to recreate the event and take photographs once layout construction is adequately advanced. Frank

Its been a couple of weeks since my last entry and so I felt it was time for a quick progress update. As suggested in my last update we have been progressing the laying of track in the fiddle yard. All the points have now been removed from their Templot paper templates and with the application of copious amounts of UHU they have now been installed in their final positions having first remembered to drill holes under the tie bars for the Tortoise point motor actuators. We have now commenced installing the plain track for which we are using SMP EM gauge track from Scaleways. As can be seen from the attached photograph the space between the walls of the spiral and the edge of the base board is quite restricted but I have checked the clearances using the 70ft Dreadnought coaches from our Hungerford layout and there is more than sufficient clearance for these and so we will be fine with the shorter Howldon stock that will actually be running on the layout. The three tracks in the foreground are at the base of the spiral, the central track being an extra siding on which we currently plan to stable a cattle train. It will be interesting to see how we get on with reversing the train up the 1:60 spiral to park it. Fingers crossed that we wont have derailment issues. Only time will tell. As well as the track that can be seen, the rail has also been laid on the three boards of the spiral that carry the line under the scenic boards at the front of the layout. To date we have probably laid around a third of the track on the spiral and I personally will be pressing on with laying the rest of it next week, whilst others lay the track on the main fiddle yard boards. At home I have now completed the CAD artwork for the J7 and I am now writing up the assembly instructions as a means of verifying that I have drawn up all the parts needed. I also find that the act of describing the assembly helps to validate that I have designed sufficient tabs and slots to ensure that the main elements of the model should fit together with the minimum risk of things going out of square. My aim is to send the artwork off to the etching firm sometime this month so I can start the test assembly of the loco in June. I personally intend to build two J7's one with a 4' 5" boiler and the other with a 4' 8" boiler. Both will have the later Ivatt cab although I will need to test assemble the Stirling cabs to ensure that the cab side sheets are the correct length and that the splashers in the cab and the cab floor fit across the cabs correctly. I will post progress on the test build of the first J7 on this blog, warts and all, so you can see how version one of the artwork turns out. There are bound to be mistakes along the way but with any luck I will be able to get round any errors as the build progresses. Regards, Frank

Just a quick update to let you know what's happening on Clayton. We have achieved the next milestone and have completed the carpentry associated with the fiddle yard and spiral. The attached picture shows the fiddle yard as of yesterday resplendent in its coat of photographic grey paint. The yard and spiral have had their cork underlay installed and any minor discrepancies in the levels at board joints have been sanded out of the cork prior to painting. After taking this picture we commenced the installation of the previously built point work and this work will continue over the next few weeks along with installation of the plain track (SMP) for the sidings and on the spiral. Meanwhile at home work continues on the preparation of the CAD artwork for the J7. My main challenge currently is determining the best motor/gearbox combinations for this model. Given it is quite a small loco there is minimal space for ballast but without ballast the loco will not be able to pull a reasonably sized train up the gradients on Clayton. One of the options that I am working on is whether I can install the motor in the tender and drive the rear axle (of the loco) through a drive shaft. This will leave the firebox and boiler completely free for ballast. I have never attempted this type of drive system before although I am aware that many modellers have successfully done this in the past. I shall persevere a bit longer with this approach therefore to see if I can come up with a workable solution that keeps everything below the footplate and fall plate. Whether this will ultimately translate into an option for the commercial kit when it is launched is still to be decided as I have not had this discussion with John Redrup of LRM as yet. I would imagine that most builders will want to keep things simple by installing the motor in the firebox but a few may be interested in the motor in tender option. As a slight distraction I was delighted to be invited to give a presentation on the Clayton project to West Yorkshire members of the Scalefour Society last night. My thanks to those members who gave two colleagues and myself such a warm welcome, and my apologies for over running at the end slightly. Regards, Frank

Many thanks to you Chris for undertaking the test build of the Q1 etches for me. You have done a brilliant job of it and I hope you have enjoyed the build despite the challenges I unintentionally threw at you from time to time. I look forward to seeing it completed in due course and running but in the meantime I can work with John Redrup to get this into production. Can you send me those pictures please? Which day will you be at Scaleforum? Regards, Frank

Hi Peter, Thanks for taking time out to respond. If you can’t make a prediction from your knowledge thus far I may just have to bite the bullet and give priority to laying the track on the spiral so we can run some tests. We made a decision early on not to resort to gadgets such as Magnahesion to increase the drawbar pull so we may end up banking shorter trains than would have been found on the prototype but this adds to the operational interest and so is not necessarily a bad thing. If we run tests I’ll post the results on here. Frank

Hi, I’m particularly interested in this topic because our new exhibition layout - Clayton - in build incorporates the gradients of the prototype but with the added challenge that the steepest gradient 1:50 has had to be put on a 54” radius unlike the prototype which is pretty much straight. At the other end of the layout we have installed a spiral on a 1:60 gradient to return the line back down to the fiddle yard and in places the radius on this drops to 48”. Early tests with a couple of our kit built loco’s indicated that they both had a maximum of around 19 wagons (vans) before losing traction. We made up the train from a variety of plastic, brass and white metal kit built vans in an attempt to reproduce a representative train on the layout. The two loco’s tested have already been ballasted with lead to the max and so adding further weight is not an option. One of these pulled the equivalent of 60 wagons around Retford with no sign of losing traction. The equivalent prototype loco’s were permitted to pull around 30 vans on the Queensbury line before requiring banking and so we are already falling short on our model. Do your tests indicate what we are likely to see on the 1:60? Will the same loco’s pull a longer train on the 1:60 or will the tighter radius have a bigger negative impact than the positive effect of the easier gradient? It will be another few months before we have the track laid on the spiral and can actually run tests to check this out and so if you have a scientific way of predicting the outcome it would be appreciated if you could share this with us. Regards, Frank (Shipley MRS)

My apologies, of course Scalefour North is before Expo EM and is hosted at Queen Elizabeth’s Grammer School in Wakefield. This always has excellent trade support, layouts and demonstrations. If your a finescale modeler who has never been to a Society show I would recommend you give it a go. There is ample parking or the venue is about a 15-20 minute walk from Wakefield Westgate station. Frank

Tony, You’ve hit the nail on the head. Importantly it is worth stressing that OO modellers who are into kit building will be equally well served as the members at the society shows and should not be put off by the fact that they don’t actually model in that gauge. As well as the many specialist traders not present at the big public shows you can also get closer to the layouts and their owners as these shows are not widely advertised to the general public and so are not heavily attended. Next society show in the season is I think Expo EM at Bracknell in May. Regards, Frank

Hi Graham, Likewise for me it was a pleasure to meet you at Ally Pally and the layout did not disappoint. How on earth you get it all into a single long wheelbase Transit is a mystery to me. Sorry I didn’t get to meet Baz the Ballast but perhaps I’ll see him at Wakefield in November. Hope the rest of the weekend goes smoothly for you. Frank

Hi, I find that if I clip a pair of x3 magnifying glasses (Eileen’s Emporium) onto my varifocals then I can work on stuff under the baseboards no problem. Regards, Frank

Hi Tony,I hope we have been able to provide a well argued and balanced debate about the relative merits of different manufacturer’s wheels. I found Mike Edge’s comments extremely informative. I do have 2 further observations I’d like to share which haven’t as yet been covered, these being that small inaccuracies in plastic centred wheels are far less of an issue for those of us that build compensated or sprung underframes. These not only allow for uneven track but also for eccentric wheel rims. It then becomes more an issue of how eccentric the wheels are and how visible the ‘limp’ is. The 2nd point I’d make is that plastic wheels are narrower than Markit wheels which can make all the difference between being able to fit everything between the slide bars in the wider gauges of EM and P4. I have this very issue at the moment with the Markit wheels I took delivery off last week in that having reduced the crank pins and coupling rods to the thinnest I dare I still need about another 0.5mm clearance on each side to avoid the crank pins hitting the back of the cross heads on the Finney 47xx model I’m building in EM. I will therefore have no choice but to use plastic centred wheels for this model, but will use the Markit wheels to get the chassis working and to align the brake hangers, etc. whilst I await the delivery of Ultrascale wheels around October time. Happy modelling to one and all. Frank

Hi Tony, You make a fair point about the glazing. There are no crew either and the coal is still to be added, all post paint activities on the to do list. Does anyone have advice on how to achieve circular spectacle plates? I tried a liquid glazing option a while back but it results in a poor imitation of glazing so I’m intending to cut them from glazing sheet but can’t work out how to achieve a good outcome as a cutting compass will leave a small hole in the middle? All suggestions welcome. Frank

Hi,I can sympathise with regards the challenge of finding time for modelling. Before I retired I thought I was doing well if I built a locomotive in less than 2 years so don’t be disheartened, you will get there eventually. Given how little experience you have I think you are to be congratulated for your work so far on these two models. The A1 looks to be quite a challenging kit and I suspect others who contribute to this blog may have experience of this kit that may help you in your endeavours. I look forward to watching your progress. Regards, Frank

Hi Tony, I can completely understand why you have a strong preference for Markit wheels which would appear to be the pragmatic solution for locomotives that are destined to run on LB and the like. Heavy trains inevitably put a significant strain on the wheels and in the event of am unexpected stall causing a worm driven axle to stop dead the weight of the train will put even greater stress on the wheel/axle interface. I accept that in this extreme situation their is a real risk that plastic wheels might slip on their axles. My biggest problem with Markit wheels is the unsightly wheel nut. When modellers strive to achieve the greatest accuracy possible, even to the extent that they debate the correctness of a particular wheel profile, I find it strange that they are then prepared to leave the Markit wheel nuts on show. I have used a variety of plastic centred wheels over the years: Sharman, Alan Gibson and in the main Ultrascale. Yes Ultrascale delivery times are typically 6 months but given the usual elapsed time for me between acquiring a kit and getting to the point I need the wheels I have rarely been delayed and have always been delighted with the quality of the product. When fitting the wheels for the last time I always Loctite them onto the axles and I have never had any subsequently fail with the one exception detailed below. I also have never been tempted to 'pin' the wheel onto the axle and I am unconvinced that a pin would actually stop the wheel from going out of quarter if the boss lost its grip on the axle. I have only once had a plastic centred wheel fail on a loco in service and this was a crack in the boss of the driven wheel on a 61xx which was easily replaced by contacting Ultrascale. I think the fact it fell off a layout onto a carpet was probably what caused it to fail. I accept that Gibson wheels can be a bit hit and miss, in particular my experience even since ownership changed hands is that their tender wheels are not correctly centred and so if I use them I always expect to re-machine the centres. Their drivers tend to be of a more consistent quality. One significant limitation with Gibson wheels is that they don't like having shorting wires soldered to the rims, something which is required when utilising split frame or American style pickup systems. Unless you are very quick with the iron the expansion of the rim due to the heat causes it to separate from the plastic centre. Having learnt this important lesson I now know to use a hot iron and plenty of flux to minimise the risk. This is not a problem with Sharman or Ultrascale wheels. In my experience the risk of plastic centred wheels failing on small loco's or even large loco's on small layouts is extremely small and I would encourage modellers to experiment with plastic centred wheels because of the improved visual appearance that can be achieved. I attach a picture of an LRM C12 with Ultrascale wheels as an illustration of this. This loco will have to work hard pulling trains up the 1:50 gradient on the forthcoming Clayton layout and I have every confidence that it will be up to the task. Before you compliment me on my paintwork please note that Mr Rathbone should be credited for this. Regards, Frank

Hi Jol, Whilst I must admit that Mark’s phone manner is an acquired taste, ignoring get that for a moment I have to agree with Tony that as long as the product you are after is in stock then experience suggests that the goods will be delivered within a couple of weeks. I received a set of wheels only today ordered the week before last. Mark would not know me from Adam and so I will not have had special treatment. Frank

Can I put in a bid for ‘a parade of Prairies’ Frank

Hello again, Now that the main woodwork for the spiral is complete attention is being turned to progressing the laying of track in the fiddle yard. The boards built at the end of last year were awaiting the manufacture of some pattern maker's dowels with which to align them. Chris (Rogers) is a CNC machine setter for an engineering company in Leeds and has been able to manufacture the dowels in his lunch time (at work) thus saving us considerable cost and these are now ready to fit. The fiddle yard was therefore temporarily dismantled this week to allow the dowels to be fitted. On Tuesday night, as well as the dowels Chris brought his Q1 to the club rooms to show me how he is getting on, and to point out another minor error in my artwork for the brass etch in the cab. I corrected the CAD drawing as soon as I got home before I could forget to do it. His model is coming together nicely now and I don't suppose it will be too long before the locomotive is complete and we can say that the test build has been a success. As a result of dropping the base boards to fit the dowels all the clutter that inevitably collects on flat surfaces around the layout had to be cleared away and it seemed too good an opportunity to waste. I had a bit of fun this afternoon and laid out all the fiddle yard point work to see how it looked and to get an early feel for the flow of the track work through the yard. Despite there being 60 odd points there is plenty of daylight between them over the 24 feet that they occupy. The following views show the point work viewed firstly from the Paradise Farm (Bradford) end of the fiddle yard, and secondly from the spiral (Queensbury) end of the layout. The yard has 28 storage roads of varying lengths which will probably end up holding 25 complete trains with three sidings used for storing the strengthening vehicles required to add variety to the operational proceedings and to keep the fiddle yard operator on their toes. The next job is to lay the cork underlay on the boards and then the points and the SMP plain track to accompany it can be installed permanently. Regards, Frank

This question often crops up in various guises. To summarise it is a function of weight and the coefficient of friction. A 6 coupled loco and an 8 coupled loco will have the same haulage if the weight baring down on them is the same and the wheels are made of the same material. I would imagine that the stretched body will in reality allow for extra ballast and for this reason only it will have greater haulage capacity than the standard A4. Regards, Frank

Hi again, Without doubt for those attempting to break into the hobby you would be well recommended to attend one or more of the specialist shows where they are much more likely to find the small kit manufacturers trading as well as a wide range of rolling stock on both the layouts and more importantly the demonstrators tables. It should not be a concern that even if you fully intend to build in OO, it is still worth attending one or more of the EM or P4 association events as well as fine scale shows such as Rail Wells or Railex. As well as kit and component suppliers you will find retailers selling every kind of tool and material you could possibly want. And the icing on the cake so to speak is the attendance by experienced modellers such as Tony specifically invited to share their knowledge with less experienced modellers. Personally I have learnt most of the skills I now possess from attending such shows and now almost exclusively do all my shopping at them. I would certainly find modelling much more difficult if these specialist shows no longer happened. Regards, Frank

Hi Jol, I completely agree and would add that many small suppliers are one person businesses some of whom do it in their spare time perhaps as a hobby. If they do not attend the specialist shows then the only way to purchase from them is by mail order. Frank

Hello again, Just a quick update with regards the ongoing saga of the spiral. Today I finished building the last of three boards for the spiral that sit underneath the scenic boards of the main layout. These boards in themselves aren't too bad but the carnage that was required to drive these under the scenic boards was significant. Two of the three boards are of box construction and are effectively bridging pieces between the other more traditional flat topped boards. The following picture gives you a good idea of how much the spiral intrudes on the original framework of the scenic boards. I have therefore added a 2nd level framework on top of and braced too the original before cutting through the original cross members to provide clearance for the spiral board itself. The part of the spiral you can see is about 5" lower than the ballasted track above it. The track work you can see represents the entrance to Clayton tunnel. As I have said previously I have definitely paid the price for failing to plan for this properly in the first place. There is only one more board in the fiddle yard still to have its part of the spiral added (about 30" or so) and then all the woodwork for the spiral will be complete. Hopefully next Tuesday will see this achieved. We can then look forward to laying cork onto the spiral and then the fun part: laying the SMP track work. Frank

My advice based on many years of modelling is that it really doesn’t matter which side is live but if you have any concerns the sensible thing is to adopt a standard and then stick to it and if you are nervous isolate the frames from the superstructure and any metal couplings to be on the safe side. I use the American pickup system extensively and always isolate a tender’s frames from it’s superstructure so as to avoid the metal fall plate shorting between the loco and tender which would otherwise be at opposite electrical potentials. I haven’t bothered isolating any loco’s frames from their superstructure but I rarely double head loco’s so the problem is unlikely to occur anyway on Hungerford which is the layout my models run on. As long as the loco’s are facing the same way, by being consistent with the side that is live if you do double head the problem (a dead short) still won’t arise. Regards, Frank