Sitham Yard

The acquired wagons of British Railways Volume 3 by David Larkin has photos of two similar wagons in BR days but with most of their livery visible. He states that although side doors were fitted they were not required as the wagons were unloaded at Corby by rotary tippler and the side doors were at some stage fixed closed. Andrew

This is an interesting topic on which I have done some research and it seems to be quite involved. For a start I would suggest looking at the Commercial Motor magazine archive which is freely available on line, mainly the classified adverts although there are some display adverts as well for ex WD vehicles. Note that the archive numbers each issue with the front cover being page 1 and therefore does not correspond with the printed page numbers. On archive page 26 of the 3rd January 1947 issue there is an interesting piece on the non-availability of spares for ex military vehicles. This suggests that some of the vehicles may have had short lives in civilian use due to the lack of spares. I get the impression that certain vehicles such as Bedford O series and Austin K series had long lives in the army as they were similar to the civilian vehicles that were made in large numbers and vehicles were cascaded down to TA units even when replaced in front line units. Conversely some military looking vehicles were permitted to be made for civilian use during World War 2 including Bedford OW series (similar to WD vehicles) and Guy Vixant (civilian Vixen model with the military front end of the Ant) available from Road Transport Images assuming you want 4mm scale. Releasing vehicles for sale can vary from service to service and also what they vehicles were used for. Some Austin K6's seem to have been released early and I suspect they were bomb flats made redundant with the running down of the bomber squadrons. However I have seen photos of a rebodied K6 with 1957 registration and an original bodied K6 tipper with 1958 registration. Generally speaking 4 x 2 GS vehicles were popular choices for civilian use probably with new bodies mainly flat, dropside and van . Some companies did well by converting ex WD vehicles eg. Ford WOA2 pictured outside the works of Scottorn Ltd who went on to become well known for specialist body work and trailers. Jeeps were liked by garages and farmers with modified bodies and even lengthened wheelbase being advertised. The lack of agriculural tractors meant that as well as tanks, mentioned above, the Quad type of artillery tractor was used by farmers. I have accumulated a fairly good collection of magazine articles and books and may be able to answer specific questions. Andrew

Very enjoyable show with plenty of space. Hope it was busy enough for everyone to make it viable. With regards to catering I think the website should specifically mention the restaurant downstairs. Reasonable quality hot meals were on offer and although expensive were in line with what I would expect from that type of venue. I consider them to be better value than the hot snacks available in the hall and there were plenty of pleasant, helpful staff on hand. Andrew

I spoke today to Richard Webster at the London Festival of Railway Modelling at Alexandra Palace. He confirmed that the new vans will be on the BR underframe as this was the only existing underframe suitable. We will just have to fret out the axleguards to be accurate although I think some may have received BR axleguards late in their lives. Andrew

I would be wary about repainting given the paint shortage of the time. Even as late as 1954 some new wooden bodied wagons were entering traffic unpainted except for markings. Look for photos of what I call hybrid liveries. For example a van in LMS livery with small lettering with the L and S painted out or GW wagon with small GWR painted out and W (in GWR style) on the corner plate next to the existing number. Geoff Kent's books on 4mm wagons have a number of examples probably photos be A.E. West AKA Wessex Collection. Also British Railways Illustrated have in the last year or Two (maybe longer) have been publishing his photos under the heading Workaday Wagons. Steel bodied wagons more likely to be repainted. Andrew

Yes interesting. Having looked it up this came out in 1934 and was the first LNER goods van design to have a corrugated steel end. The first LMS good van with a corrugated steel end also did not have any vents but this was 10 years earlier in 1924. Andrew

No what I am referring to are the earlier LNER goods vans that did not have bonnet vents. Sorry did not make it clear. I am not aware of any LNER goods vans with both bonnet vents and sliding shutters. Vans for perishable traffic could be different. Andrew

I have always understood that what LNER vans had were vents covered by sliding shutters either external or internal. This is how they are described by Tatlow. Andrew

Suggest you contact them. The products section of the Gauge O Guild website is open to non members so anyone can purchase Dingham couplings in 4mm or 7mm. Andrew

For me the opening door is spoilt by the mechanism being visible when the door opens. Should it be positioned on the other side of the door so it is not seen? Andrew

Thanks for this very useful resource that I was not aware of. Andrew

Interesting you say that. My memories are that the last show or shows there was a sign at the top of the stairs saying that the restaurant was reserved for a private function, presumably exhibitors, in years before there were two serveries, one for exhibitors, one for the visitors and plenty of room if you picked the right time. Andrew

Can anyone please advise whether or not the restaurant in the basement will be available to show visitors. Thanks. Andrew

Even viewing on a large screen it is not clear but I believe it does. Andrew

Just realised something else. When painting numbers on XPO wagons there wasn't a cast number plate to refer to so again easy to make a mistake. Andrew

Other books I will recommend are "The 4mm Wagon" by Geoff Kent, "The 4mm Coal Wagon" by John Haynes and "Twilight of the Goods" by Don Rowland, all published by Wild Swan and all still available. I have also found it difficult to decide if replacement planks are bare wood or painted grey. I suspect some of the paint may have been rather thin. I too look to see if the ironwork has been painted or if the paint has strayed on to the next plank. Mol, you mentioned 'DENABY'. David Larkin shows that they were renewing their large fleet of wagons in the few years immediately before World War 2 and, as you say, must have had good quality paintwork that lasted many years. Incidentally, mention has been made elsewhere of discrepancies in David's books. The comments on RM web about the problems with numbers on both wagons and coaches when setting up TOPS makes me wonder how accurate were BR records before then. I presume the process went something like this - a wagon comes into a repair yard and needs renumbering, details are taken on a piece of paper or the proverbial fag packet, taken to the office and entered in a ledger and allocated a P number. A form is then made out and sent to BR where the details are entered into a central record. The information available to David was again extracted to prepare other documents so every time there is the possibility of an error. Remember this is probably all hand written and given possible difficulties in reading someone's writing and how easy it is (I find!) to transpose digits in a number, then mistakes are likely. Andrew

Mol, as a new RMweb member I don't know if this has been mentioned before but the short lived Modellers' Backtrack magazine had a three part article by Peter Fidczuk covering 16T minerals and their predecessors. August-September 1991, October-November1991 and December 1991- January 1992 are the issues. On page 130 of the first of these is a small photo by R. H. G. Simpson of B12452 dating from late 1950's or early 1960's. Only about a third of the end door is visible but no sign of a rib above the hinge. However the wagon has been modified/rebuilt with an end door without any visible reinforcement, just rivetted hinges, and a rivetted side door plus a double row of rivets along the bottom of the side. If you are modifying the Dapol wagon don't forget the stanchions on the sides have to be shortened as they do not reach the lip at the top. If you look at the diagrams 1/101 and 1/113 on the Barrowmore MRG website www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html they show the different pressed end doors you mention, diagram 1/113 being those wagons returned from France. Andrew