keybuk

I was the same; I have a number of Bachmann 66s, but wasn't in a rush to replace them unless something special like that came along

Looks like this is being done by Dapol, judging by the CAD and Art styles, SKUs, etc. (* just a guess, but I'd eat a hat if I was wrong)

For a limited small run like this, it'll be a soft tooling, it'll be "used up" in the production process. Hard toolings like Hornby and Bachmann use cost a *LOT* more money, which is why they endlessly sell the same old models in new liveries and numbers year after year, to slowly recoup the cost of it.

Crowd-sourcing is investing. The return on our investment is the model. (Google's investors don't own 100% of Google, or its IP - the idea that investors "own" the IP of the company/venture they invest in is pretty nonsensical). Let's talk about Christmas Trees instead of trains. Every year, a large number of people buy Christmas Trees. I want to start up a business selling Christmas Trees in my town, I think people will buy them from me instead of going to the next town over. It's surprisingly expensive to grow Christmas Trees. I need to lease a large plot of land, prepare it for growing, buy the seeds for the trees, and employ a staff to grow those trees. And it's going to take *seven years* before I'm able to actually start selling them. That's a lot of money to be paid out to the landowner, seed and food stores, and my staff. And if, one month before that final Christmas, my little wood burns down, I don't get to ask for all that money back; it's burned up with the trees. Now I can't afford that myself, so I go to the bank. Fortunately the bank know that Christmas Trees are a guaranteed seller, and they do a bit of research and know that nobody else in the area is going to be growing them, so they take a bet that my Christmas Tree business will be a success, and they loan me the money that I need to start it up. The bank has taken the risk. Six years later, I get to finally take orders for my first year Christmas Tree crop, and hurrah, it's going to be a success, and I can repay the bank with the terms agreed. Now let's consider Bob in the next county over. Bob is a bit of a non-traditionalist, he doesn't think firs and pines are the way forward, he thinks that what people really want for their Christmas Tree is an ornamental room-sized holly bush. He knows that in Victorian times this was pretty popular, and thinks it's due a comeback. Bob has basically the same money constraints as I do, whether or not his business is a success, he still has to lease the land for years, buy the seeds or seedlings, all the plant food, pay some staff, etc. And he still has to pay all of that, whether or not he manages to grow his trees, and whether or not he manages to sell them. Bob went to the same bank as I did, but the bank turned him down. They cited all sorts of reasons, but it really came down to the fact that they didn't want to take on the risk themselves. Bob is a small business man, he simply doesn't have the capital himself to invest in his own idea. But he seriously believes people want Holly Trees for Christmas, people keep telling him how excited they are over it. So Bob comes up with a novel idea; instead of the bank fronting the money, he asks the potential customers to do it. Customers pay the money for a tree they won't receive for seven years, with the understanding that he'll only start growing trees if enough people sign up, and with the understanding that they are taking on the risk if things don't work out. Now obviously some people aren't going to like those terms; they don't see why they should pay their money so far in advance, without even the guarantee that they'll get the tree. And that's fine, they're under no obligation to do so, they can continue buying fir and pine trees, and once Bob has a successful round of trees, maybe he'll have some spare they can buy. Others understand that nobody else is willing to front Bob the capital, so if they don't, there simply won't be any Holly Trees for christmas and they'll have to make do with fir and pines. They also know that if things don't work out, there's no money coming back because Bob already had to invest it all in the land and staff, and there's no bank backing it. But they know Bob, he's been growing trees for other people for years, he knows his stuff, so they figure his idea is worth a chance. And that's basically how this stuff works. Someone, somewhere, has to risk their money. Small shops like Durham and DJM don't even have the money to risk for something like this. Without a bank, they need us to risk our money instead. And it's totally okay for you not to be willing to risk yours.

The key here is that you're not the buyer. You're the investor. In the model you describe, the shop is fronting the liquidity risk. If things don't work out, they eat it. In commissions like Hattons, the shop is big, so they're able to do that. For the APT-P, we're the investors. We're fronting the risk so the model might be able to get made. The flip-side is that if things don't work, we eat that risk. And yup, you have to assess that risk - but it's not in terms of "who do I get my money back from", since your money will be spent even if things fail - it's in terms of "do I trust these people to do what they say?" Being an investor instead of a buyer might not be for you - and that's totally okay! Hopefully those of us who are willing to take the risk will ensure the model gets made, and there might be some more for you to buy left over.

Or possibly the Pendolino sets, which I think is the first time Hornby actually made the effort to produce complete and accurate rakes of a train of that length, right down to numbering. They did the same for the (shorter) Javelin too, but the most recent of the sets didn't have the extra coaches released for it. So that's probably not a good sign.

Trust me, I've been trying repeatedly. Even posting in the forum doesn't get an answer. The closest thing I got to a response was a reply to a mail saying he'd be in touch within two weeks, and that was two MONTHS ago. Phone call isn't a cost problem for me, it's a timezone problem - I doubt I'll get an answer out of him at 4am UK time either I'm not after a date or anything, just confirmation that my pre-order is still "going to happen sometime" - and that he received the updated address I sent him back in August (and again in February just in case)

Dunno, we're in the same boat... No sign of my 156, and Charlie doesn't respond to e-mails about it

A LokPilot V4 8-pin fits if you're not using a speaker, since it uses a harness wire from the socket that's long enough to put the decoder where the speaker would ordinarily go.

It doesn't even take their own TTS decoder or speaker - their line to me was that it's not designed for DCC Sound :shrug:

Hornby got back to me about the Sound Decoder fitting issues. This was their response:

Took the plunge and did the heavy decoder fitting on the 800. Cut out the side parts as I drew in my previous post, and filed a hole in the base to route the cables through so that they tuck behind the decoder rather than being visible through the door: Passed the 8-pin plug through the hole in the chassis that already exists, along with the speaker wires and rejoined these to the speakers. I'm using a DCC Supplies 4 Ohm "Base Enhanced" Speaker for this, it's not quite as punchy as a full bass reflex which doesn't fit in the space, but it should give the diesel sound more than enough kick. Getting the PCB back in, and in particular plugging the plugs back into it, was the fiddly bit; but once it's all in, and the decoder is plugged into the socket, it ends up looking pretty neat underneath: And with a little careful positioning, the decoder is very nicely hidden in the space between the two doors, behind the GWR logo; leaving the ability to see through one door and out of the other:

I've been experimenting with this approach myself, and I'm cautious to commit to it until I at least hear some alternatives: While the wiring routing isn't an issue, the LokSound V4.0 doesn't fit in the space so I would have to cut the interior plastic out of the way as marked in the image, and make a hole for the wiring. I think I can just about tuck this so that it won't be directly visible through the doors; there's 34mm between the glazing, and the decoder is 32mm long. I've had to do worse to models before to get a decoder in, but none of those models were considered "DCC Sound Ready" by the manufacturer

Hey Charlie, Since you're online (and replying to the 800 IEP thread!), could you take a moment to let me know what's up with my 156 pre-order? Thanks! Scott

That sounds like the last thing I ordered from Olivia's - I think there was supposed to be a model in there too, but mostly what I got was Black Tak

This is what I've been thinking I'd need to do too Do you have a picture of their work?

I assume you put the non-sound chip where the speaker is supposed to go? I can't tell what they were thinking here (aside from "…"), for comparison here's an (unsheathed) Hornby TTS decoder sitting on that PCB

I know we're all figuring out how to get these around corners, but has anyone had any luck getting a DCC Decoder into one of these? They don't seem to have put much space in that nice box on the bottom; a LokSound V4.0 is too thick.

Yup, not got mine... I e-mailed Charlie about it, and got a reply saying he'd get back to me after two weeks - and that was three weeks ago.

Looked like he accidentally bought them himself, since the auction ended, and the same seller just relisted them again. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282847392970 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282847386001

Speaker is a 20x27mm 8 Ohm 1W rectangular right at the front, they've drilled holes on the inner shell behind the grill

Yeah pretty huge, there's no close-coupling here, but since the NEM socket is mounted on the body rather than the bogie, should be a pretty easy home modification to bring them closer together. Nope, that's how it comes out of the box. I was actually deliberately lining up the angle of the shot to experiment with the light, if you invert them the FO looks equally beige. I'm still sure it's a touch too grey in most light, but it's a lot better than Hornby's Tan Camry color.

Plus their distinctive thyristor noise will sound great with a speaker sound decoder!

Anyone else's TSO printed with the wrong number? Box, Oxford website, etc. all say 11008 - but I have 11018

Well.. they both look exactly the same on my layout right now!