mikemeg

Ah and I thought it was because you didn't know how to use the spill chucker!! Cheers Mike

Aha, so photographic evidence that the attachment of bicycles was subject to variations!!!! Thanks to Mr Gallon and to Porcy Mane for the photos. And, post 1949, at least 68740 still sported its North Eastern buffers and a 'trumpet' over the safety valves. Once again guys, many thanks and keep the photos coming. Oh and an English Eclectic Type 3; was that something put together from various miscellaneous diesel bits - dees'l fit somewhere. I'll get me coat!!!! Regards Mike

Horsetan, Thanks for that and I did say that the chassis freewheels in its unpowered (final drive gear not fixed) state; it does without any binding. I must have built twenty or so chassis' in the last three years and, so far, none of them have failed to run properly - eventually - though one or two did take some persuading!!!! The chassis jig does make an enormous difference to the accuracy of chassis assembly, provided that the jig set up exactly matches the coupling rod journal spacing and that the jig pins remain absolutely tight and perpendicular during the assembly. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Mick, I hope it's the picture, too!! When this chassis was assembled, then both coupling rods were mounted on the same settings of the chassis jig, so I know they are identically spaced. The same jig and settings were then used for chassis assembly, so I'm pretty certain that it is the photo which deceives, rather than the axle being cockeyed. The photo was taken with the chassis simply resting on the background and wasn't necessarily taken absolutely perpendicular to that plane, so parallax comes into play, especially with the camera set on macro mode. But thanks for the observation; caused me to check. So now both of these J72's are ready for the final detailing phases - cab internals, footplate steps, sand pipes, rear lamp irons, etc. Oh and someone suggested that on at least one of these (and the J71 and at least one of the J77's) I should fit models of late LNER/early BR bicycles, tied to the smokebox front by some 4mm rope or chains!! Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT The compensated brake pull rod has now been assembled, the brakes fitted to their hangars and the brake pull rod fitted to the brakes So this is what the whole chassis looks like when viewed from underneath and shows how the compensated brake pull rod is organised. Now to fit the pickups and then test run the chassis under power. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT With the exception of the brakes, brake linkage and the ash pan, the chassis is now complete.This one runs freely without any binding, first time, which is unusual for my chassis; they normally require some opening out of the coupling rod journals. Now to add the brakes and brake linkage. Cheers Mike

Bachmann J72 Doug, Arthur's castings certainly lift the model, especially those tank fillers. Like you, once I stripped the original green livery from the body and got back to the black plastic, then I was surprised at the level of detail. The two glaring inaccuracies are the footplate thickness and the raised beading around the cab windows, though both of these shouldn't be quite so apparent once this loco has its coat of weathered black and a generous coating of grime and muck. I did cut the tank fronts back to their correct profile, which also helps to lift the model. I see that Bachmann have re-introduced this model with a new chassis, so perhaps we'll see yet more of these conversions. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Apart from some detailing on the two buffer beams, the couplings and the footplate steps then the external detailing of the loco superstructure is now complete, having added new tank fillers and North Eastern buffers from Arthur's growing range of brass castings. The latest addition to this range of brass castings is a sprue containing eight NER tapered buffers and eight LNER stepped parallel buffers, all with full rivet detail on the buffer housing baseplate. It's not a perfect model but for 50 pence (the cost of the body) plus a few quid for the rest, it's not bad and the High Level chassis kit is very good indeed!!! So now to complete this chassis. Cheers MIke

LOADS OF TANK LOCOS Once this latest J72 is finished then time to complete the three J77's and the J71 having now got all of the necessary castings. Then into the paint shop for the five not yet painted and they can take their place on Hessle Haven. All I'll then have to do is build enough wagons for this collection of 0-6-0 shunters to shunt! Hard to imagine that in 1950, the four Hull locomotive sheds could, collectively, muster almost forty of these four classes of 0-6-0 tanks (J71, J72, J73, J77). And then, at the same time, there were literally dozens more tanks of classes A5, A6, A7, A8, C12, F4 (Hull Dairycoates had two of these ex-GE 2-4-2's), G5, L1, N8, N10, N13, T1, Y1, Y3 spread across the same Hull sheds. Even more amazing was that those same Hull sheds also had significant numbers of some twenty more tender locomotive classes, with members of perhaps another twenty to thirty classes working into or through the town. So I've still some way to go to represent this area. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT David, No, I didn't make the springs detachable, though that could probably be done. I know many modellers do like to make the springs detachable so that driving wheelsets can be simply dropped out but, as yet, I've never had the need to remove wheelsets once the loco has been run in. Certainly with the High Level axleboxes, I'd imagine that a model would need to run for a very long distance to cause any significant wear on them. Similarly, the journals on the coupling rods of the High Level kit are around 1 mm thick so they shouldn't wear out very quickly, either. The High Level kit contains quite a lot besides the etched sheet - gears, wire of various gauges, brass and steel rod of .6, .8 and 1.0mm diameters, 1/16th inch o/d brass tube, top hat bearings, hornguides and axleboxes (the top hat bearings for a rigid build / the hornguides and axleboxes for a compensated build). This for the sale price of £42. So, dare I suggest that you contact Chris Gibbon, at High Level Models, to see whether he would sell just the nickel silver etched sheet which contains all of the motion and other 'twixt the mainframe' details, including the compensated brake rods and those fatter springs (three layers of etch on the High Level kit). The etched sheet does contain various spacing parts - motion plate, frame spacers, etc.- for P4, EM and 'OO' so can be built for any of those gauges. The brake linkage, shown on your photograph, is correct for the first twenty J72's (with the shorter bunker), which had separate brake pull rods either side, but is not correct for any of the later batches of J72's (the other 93 members of the class), which had a centrally located, compensated brake pull rod. This was one of the reasons why Chris Gibbon actually produced his chassis kit for the J72, though he has added many more details as well. I'm thinking that I might do the same - use parts from this etch - to furnish the internals on the J71 test build which I did earlier this year. So there could be two requests, going to Chris Gibbon at High Level, for the etched sheet only!!! Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT The second of these High Level Models J72 chassis is now well on and should be completed this week. After that then cab interiors will be built for the two J72's plus adding the footplate steps and some new tank fillers. I guess one of the upsides of doing these test builds of Arthur's kits - well there isn't a downside - is that I've accumulated quite a collection of NER loco bits - bolted buffer beams, tank handrail fixing brackets, two part smokebox top lamp irons, bunker lamp irons, backhead details, etc, some of which have gone onto the J72's. So a quick line up of the 'little J's'; two J72's and a J71. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Porcy, Many thanks for the diagram and photos of Percy Main shed. The more I see of this shed the more it looks like an ideal place to model. With seventeen ex NER locos and six or seven LNER locos, then I need a fairly substantial shed to house them and I'm sure there will be more!! Please keep the photos coming; they are truly inspirational. Finally, I did get around to the second J72, stripping it and then largely rebuildng it. If only I could thin that footplate down some, then it would look the part. This is just resting on the chassis built for 69003; this one will have another chassis built for it and will be one of the LNER built batch - 687xx. Remember I mentioned a 1962 Newcastle shed bash; one of our party had an Aunt who lived in a terraced house overlooking the shed, where we were all treated to a cup of tea and a cake, prior to going round the shed. Seeing that map/diagram rekindled the memory and shows she must have lived on Railway Street. Oh and the photo of the inside of Blackgill shed - amazing, simply amazing. Though when I remember these wonderful places they were never that clean. Once again, many thanks for the contributions and for expanding the interest of the thread. Regards Mike

Porce, So these buildings, originally built by/for the Blyth and Tyne Railway? Did these buildings become part of the running shed or did they always retain a different use, right up to closure of the shed. I'm really asking about the early 1950's timeframe. Most of the 1950's and 60's photos of this shed seem to show the allocation concentrated in the three road through shed, which with 22 in 1950 and 18 in 1959 (all J27's) wouldn't be too much of an accommodation problem, though the through shed seemed to lose its roof some time in the 1950's? Cheers Mike

Porce, Once again, many thanks for the photos and the link. I watched the video and it was fascinating; reflecting, as it did, a Tyneside scene and history now long consigned to the past. But what an industrial powerhouse was Tyneside, with its coal industry and the variety of other heavy industries, not least building the great ships. And the commentary, just verging on but never emulating, that clipped, exagerated English of the pre and post war Pathe News, is perfect. A real joy to watch. The photo of the old through road shed and the panoramic of the area show just how much railway there once was on Tyneside and what a place it must have been, in its halcyon days. And Percy Main shed must have been built to support a much larger allocation than it actually had, with a three road through shed and five road straight shed. As you say, its layout and setting are perfect to be modelled. And just look at some of that trackwork - curves seemingly formed of tangential short straights, turnouts on the curve, etc. And that air of slow and gradual delapidation which overtook so many of these amazing places, in the 1950's and 60's. You can almost smell the smoke and soot on the air, and hear the hissing of steam and the knocking of cooling, contracting metal and the lines of resting locomotives as the place slumbers on a lazy Sunday afternoon. Ah happy days!!!! So the construction of a model of this shed and its environs will now be added to the list of 'things to be done' and it will be done and integrated with my Hessle Haven layout. Just keep those wonderful photos coming! Cheers Mike

Porce, Could have been worse, you might have asked Joan Croft's sister - Patri - to marry you and Neville Hill's brother - Edge - to have been your best man. You'd have been in an 'L of a MesS' then!! What a great photo of 'Porcy Mane' though sadly lacking any North Eastern locos. Now that would make a cracking model - Grommit!! With this growing collection of North Eastern locos I'm going to have to build a model of a North Eastern shed and that's just about the right size and shape. Cheers MIke

Hope you don't mind the excuse to post up some photos. Porcy You're very welcome to post any photographs; as anyone is on these threads. Now I must ask you this. When I was a youthful train spotter, now more than fifty years ago, I can remember a 1962 trip to the Newcastle sheds, one of which was Percy Main. Its allocation, then, and I believe for many years, consisted entirely of J27's. Anyway I'm assuming (possibly wrongly) that your username is the Geordie pronunciation of that place? And yes, I do have two Dave Bradwell chassis kits for the B1 still to do. They've languished in the 'to do' cupboard for quite a while now but, perhaps, might now get onto the work bench. Many thanks and cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT The initial running trials were very encouraging with only the hint of a tight spot. One of the problems with these locomotives, indeed many of the smaller North Eastern locomotives, is that the coupling rod journals were very small, often around 8" (2.66 mm) diameter. If Alan Gibson wheels are used, with their crankpin colletts around 1.6 mm diameter, then there is only around .5 mm (.020") of journal left, around the collett, when they are drilled out to take the crankpin colletts. And this assumes absolutely perfect symmetry between the wheel spacing on the mainframes and the coupling rod spacing, so that no enlargement of the holes in the journals is necessary to cater for slight differences in spacing. I confess that I did turn the crankpin colletts down a little - perhaps to around 1.4 mm diameter - to try and retain a little more metal on the coupling rod journals; though these rods are three layer etches, so there is plenty of depth to the journals. So now to the additional detailing of the body. All in all this High Level chassis kit is very well designed and does go together very well, though care must be taken with the smaller parts. It certainly produces a much more prototypically accurate chassis for the J72 than earlier chassis kits for this loco. So as I have another Bachmann J72 body plus the wheels, motor and gearbox then I'll do another one. And where was 69003 based, in mid 1950? Hull. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT So with the brake arrangement from the cab to the cross shaft done, a quick sit of the body on the new chassis. Now only the brake pull rod to fit and the final adjustment of the brake positions and then 69003 is ready for some running trials prior to adding the final details to the body - new footplate steps, cab floor, backhead, brake standard and crew. The BR rear sandboxes were made for the original chassis so these will be added to this chassis with the sandpipes. Then the loco will be weathered a little to reflect its condition in mid 1950. After that, I'll do it all again on another Bachmann J72 body as one of the later batches 68690 - 68754. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT The last sub-assembly to build is the compensated brake pull rod. The kit provides three sets of etches for the brake yokes (OO, EM and P4) located on what is, effectively, a jig for assembly of the brake pull rod. By removing those parts not needed for the gauge to which this is to be built, the remaining parts are automatically spaced at the correct spacings for the brake positions; the photo hopefully shows this. Location of the various layers, for soldering is by use of a piece of oiled wire, which is withdrawn once the soldering operation has been done. I also use a very fine broach for positioning, again just dipping the broach in oil before soldering. Small pieces of 0.3 mm wire were then soldered into the various holes in the compensating linkage and the filed back to protrude by around .010"; this to simlate the bolts on the pull rod. So this is now ready to be cut out of the jig and fitted to the brakes and to the adjusting mechanism at the rear of the chassis. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Couldn't resist this one. If the blue paper background had been larger, then more 0-6-0 tanks would have been added. They are, from right to left, J72 (longer bunker version and BR 1949 -1951 batch), J71, J73 and J77 with the Worsdell cab. Surely the J72 must hold some kind of record for continuity of building; 1898 - 1951 largely unaltered!! I wonder if anyone will do a kit for the shorter bunker version of the J72, representing the original North Eastern built batch of twenty? Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Chris, Many thanks for that. Yes, the Bachmann J72 isn't a bad model and is dimensionally pretty well spot on. It is still the best model of a J72 available and, with a little work - filling in the underside of the boiler; adding tank breathers where applicable, adding cab floor and details, etc - can be made into a very good model. So I will upgrade this model to the standard of the chassis and to something approximating to the quality of the J71. And, looking through the box of 'miscellaneous items' I've come across another J72 body in almost perfect condition. And as I have the motor, gearbox and wheels off the old Mainly Trains chassis all in working order, then one might become two. Easy to see, now, why I have so many of these North Eastern 0-6-0 tanks. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT Horse, No, I haven't encountered Dave Bradwell's J27 kit but I have encountered Dave Bradwell's B1 chassis kit and, now that you remind me, that probably holds the record, for me, for complexity. However, I do think that anyone's perception of complexity is largely incrementally influenced by what they have done already, so having now pretty well done this J72 chassis, I would, perhaps, look differently at Dave Bradwell's kits. Mind you even from this new perspective, they'll still look bl--dy difficult but achieveable. Anyway, I sat the J72 body on the part completed chassis and checked the ride height against the test build of Arthur Kimber's J71. Mistake; massive mistake. The J72 model simply isn't in the same parish as that J71, even with the much more detailed chassis. So the plastic footsteps on the J72 have come off and will be replaced by some scratch built ones. The cab, which is devoid of everything inside, will now be modelled with a cab floor, backhead and the appropriate detail, including a crew, proudly staring out of the cab cut out of their newly updated charge. So a simple change of chassis has now become a fairly substantial rebuild. I really should know better than to upgrade one aspect of a model for, inevitably, the rest of the model then looks distinctly inferior. Tell you what, though, the two together do look nice, and when I add a J73 and three J77's then I'm getting close to that Saturday lunchtime 'crocodile' of shunting locomotives going through Hull, on their way from Victoria Dock to Hull Dairycoates shed, for boiler washout. Happy days, long lost in the mists of time!! Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT So, the final activity for today is folding up the body of the gearbox, fitting the axle bearings to the gearbox and then checking that the steel gear shafts will pass through the two sides of the box without problem, thus ensuring that the gearbox sideframes have been folded up parallel and square. These shafts for gear stages one and two still have to be cut to length, which is why the gearbox is not yet sitting at the correct orientation. The outsides of the top hat bearings forming the gearbox axle bearings, did need filing back a little so that they were a reasonably slack fit between the mainframe axleboxes, allowing the whole gearbox assembly to rock from side to side with the movement of the compensating beams. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT So, before the brake gear is assembled and fitted, the acid test; does the chassis ride level and at the correct height. To ascertain this I need to fit the three sets of driving wheels and then take them off again, prior to priming and painting the chassis. Still, this is a good check on the running of the axleboxes as these are often just a little tight on the axles. And, they are just a little bit tight so a very light run round with the broach just to allow the axles to revolve more freely. The holes at the top of the front of the mainframes and those on the tiny mainframe upstands at the rear of the frames are to take the sand pipes. Cheers Mike

HIGH LEVEL MODELS J72 CHASSIS KIT The weighshaft assembly is next bent up with the strengthening layers soldered to the lifting rods. A 1.0 mm piece of brass rod is then cut slightly oversize to fit across the mainframes and then slotted into the appropriate hole in one mainframe. One weighshaft journal, plus the lifting rod assembly plus the other weighshaft journal are then threaded onto the weighshaft, which is then slotted into the appropriate hole in the other mainframe. Once everything is centred and located the weighshaft and its journals can be soldered into place and the lifting rod assembly positioned at the appropriate angle. And that's it for the inside motion!!!! The photo, below, probably doesn't do justice to the quality of the etching of these tiny parts but I think this does look the part. I'll charge up the batteries for the digital camera and try and take a sharper photograph! Cheers Mike