mikemeg

Many thanks Mod6. I thought it might be an admin function, but wasn't sure. Cheers and, again, many thanks. Mike

I haven't posted anything to this topic for a few weeks, though I am now starting the third section of the railway - the section going east, towards Hull, from shipyard bridge. This section, as well as having quite a complex track layout with a curved double junction into Inward Yard and various crossovers and single slips, will also need a number of buildings - the railway cottages, Hessle Haven signal box and some semblance of Hessle's gas works and more bridges. Might even try to build a waterline model of a 1950's trawler, or perhaps a tug (ship, not Class 60) being fitted out in the Haven? I fear that most, if not all, of this trackwork will have to be scratch built using C8 and C9 turnouts; I'm not sure that the budget can run to ten or twelve point, diamond crossing and single slip kits. So, if anyone's interested then I'll chronicle this track build on the thread, as it proceeds. Many thanks to Sean and to DaveF for adding the photosets to the thread. Sean's pictures certainly illustrate the enormous changes to this place since the early 1960's, which was when most of the black and white photos on the thread were taken. And DaveF's photos, especially the earlier ones, still show Hessle Haven almost as we knew it. You know I never thought I'd say this but those green diesels on rakes of maroon Mk 1's and on the freight wagons of the time now have almost as much nostalgia in them as the earlier photos of steam through this place. So by way of introduction to this next section, here's one of those much treasured black and white photos of what the next section will (hopefully) look like. And it just wouldn't be complete without the ubiquitous Austerity on an unfitted freight. Interesting thing about this location is that the four track main line went from a 10',6',10' spacing, just before the overbridge, to a 6',6',6' spacing in the foreground. Apparently, the up slow (leftmost track on the photo) was an up independent up to the crossover, hence the trap point. This is exactly the same place as is shown in Sean's photo's, in the posting above; now barely recognisable to most, save those of us who, once upon a time, knew it. Thanks and regards Mike

Yeah, but don't you just love mad. It's projects like this one and Manchester Central, Birmingham New Street, Peterborough North and one or two other real locations and lifetime projects which make accessing this site worthwhile! Mike

Of course there is always that final recourse for locos working out of their normal geography - football excursions, though I don't know where Peterborough Town FC were, in the football league, in your chosen timescale. So, York playing Peterborough in the FA Cup with York having a sudden, unexplained shortage of Pacific, V2 or B1 availability and resorting to a B16? After all, it's your layout so you can make the pretext whatever you wish. But I'm completely stumped as to how you could justify one of the ex-NER 0-8-0's at New England . Cheers Mike

This is one of those topics and one of those layouts which is just a joy to behold and to read about. For those of us who saw those halcyon days (1958 - 1961), albeit at the beginning of the end of them, this layout simply oozes the atmosphere of those days. My mind travels back to a Sunday afternoon in the summer of 1959, bunking round 34E, New England and a summer Saturday afternoon in 1960 on Peterborough Station just watching that procession of Pacifics, V2's and the numerous other classes which made this place so special. Sadly, I never did get to see the B17's working into Peterborough, though I do remember one or two on New England, that Sunday afternoon in 1959 and a profusion of J6's, O2's and O4's and the ubiquitous WD's. Those and a host of other classes. Just a great re-creation of an incredible place in a wonderful time. Cheers Mike

Amen to that. Once again it's worth opening up this topic area to see what is/has emerged from your workbench. Just essential morning reading. Cheers Mike

Thanks Mick. I can let you have that tap wrench back when I've finished with it. Do you want the 10BA tap back too? Course I could pay you for them, the wrench was around 4s 6d then, so accounting for inflation in the last forty odd years, but discounting for the tap now being a 'second user' item (canny fellas, us Yorkshiremen), would 25p (5s 0d) cover it? You don't happen to have a milling machine I could borrow, do you. I'll let you have it back just as soon as I'm done with it - around 2055 on current form; we'll both be centogenarians, and some, by then. But hey, the demographic stats now say that one in fifty (or less) of us could live to clock up the ton. I wonder if we'll still be making models by then? Perhaps time for the thread to revert back to Hessle Haven so here's that black and white photo which is still so much part of the inspiration for the layout and the painting. Cheers Mike

Jonte, If it's any consolation I'm also my harshest critic, though I can probably summon up others! No different to you and I get the same response from my lady partner. I remember last year I drew up a new painting, this my first venture into railway paintings. The picture (and the photo used as a basis may be on this thread) involves a WD 2-8-0 on a long mineral train passing under one of those huge signal bridges. Anyway a cracking photo which would make a great painting, if I can get it right. I finished the drawing up of the picture and looked at the finished drawing. 'Not bad' I thought. But the little voice on the shoulder started to be a bit more objective 'Did Austerity locomotives really have oval shaped boilers?' the little voice asked. This because I had got the ellipses wrong; and everything circular on a steam locomotive becomes some form of ellipse unless viewed exactly head on or side on. Then the little voice further queried 'why were the driving wheels on Austerity 2-8-0 locomotives of differing diameters?' Quite hard to answer that one! Finally, and a mere quarter hour after the little voice had begun this observational discussion, it observed 'I didn't realise that Brunel's broad guage had extended to the old NER and had lasted into railway nationalisation, even if it had been reduced from 7' 0" to around 5' 9"." Clincher! The little voice was swatted into oblivion but its damage had been done. This drawing was actually cr--p and was duly binned and I've just done the drawing again. As yet the little voice has remained silent but I'm still awaiting the 'Oi, what's that' which then pressages another bout of 'objective assessment'. But, where would I be without that objective, critical and very rational little voice? Cheers and best regards, Jonte Mike

Jonte, Many thanks for the comments above and I was simply going to accept the compliments and leave it at that. But I notice one or two things, across this forum generally, that might be worth commenting on :- For me there are a few (and it is a few) posters whose work I find truly inspirational. These posters work in all of the scales (2mm, 4mm, 7mm) and are certainly not just the P4 folk in 4mm; there are some wonderful 'OO' models and modellers. Interestingly, many of the posters whose work I so admire, are now posting much less than they did, though I can't believe that they have stopped making models, so where have they gone? I also notice that some of the more regular posters are now raising topics to elicit much more balanced and objective responses. Instead of seeking the 'Oh that looks nice' responses, they are now asking "how good is this model?" or "what's wrong with this" and, in so doing, are risking some very objective responses "well it looks nothing like the prototype, so throw it away and start again" or "the idea's good; shame about the workmanship". My own modelling ethic is very simple :- Locate the best models and modellers, in any discipline, and set the objective of matching or exceeding the quality of their work. This by reading, understanding and analysing exactly how they do what they do, learning and mastering their techniques and then identifying where improvements to those techniques can be made. Clearly, I will probably never achieve this but I will never stop the pursuit and will never be satisfied until I feel I have reached my limits. Many of my earliest (and some later) models have simply been thrown away - they were just not good enough. Now, thankfully, I don't throw much away but there is still room for considerable improvement and improvements in techiques, in accuracy and workmanship will continue to be sought. But, ultimately, this is the nature of this beast (me), whether it be the model making, the pictures which I paint and draw, or my various other interests. On one thread, I read on here, someone said "I don't want to be seen as one of those irritating people who seem to do everything well (quote)". Well, quite simply, I do want to be one of those irritating folks and will vigorously pursue that objective. Cheers Mike

I can't reproduce the 'convoys' of locos going through Botanic but here's the nearest I can get. A convoy of Dairycoates shunting locos off to the works. 69915 and 69003 for overhaul; the J71 to be completed. So when these return to Hull, Darlington should have completed the J71 and painted it. The J39 has just been the subject of an 'upgrade' with new springing on the chassis; there was plenty of power (Mashima 1620 and Comet 50:1 gearbox) but nowhere near enough tractive effort. Now it will pull/push upwards of thirty five wagons so is just about acceptable. Cheers Mike

While on the subject of J71's and J72's, I recently bought another Bachmann J72 body for 50p from the 'odds and sods' stall at an exhibition. The plan for this is to use it to build one of the earlier, LNER built, J72's numbered in the 87xx (1946 numbering) / 687xx range. So, if anyone's interested I'll post a thread under Scratch Building and kit Building, once I've finished the other loco projects currently ongoing. Cheers Mike

Jonathan, No other problems. The J72 had its buffers located at the top of the buffer beam to match the buffer height of wagons and coaches. So as long as the buffers are as high on the buffer beams as can be accommodated, then the ride height will be fine. When I first used the High Level gearboxes, I had the same reservations as you i.e. the difficulty of removing the final drive gear from the driven axle. I have had to remove one of these gears and here I had to take the wheels off the axle and then remove the axle from the gear. I did this by carefully scraping the loctite from around the axle and gearwheel with a new, sharp craft knife blade, rather than trying to tap it out. I also found that filing a small notch, not a flat, in the axle where the gear wheel sits aids the process of loctiting (is there such a verb?) the gear wheel to the axle. Cheers Mike

James, Yes, both the J71 and J72 use the Mainly Trains etched chassis. These kits also contain a white metal casting for the boiler bottom and rivetted buffer beams. I did modify the chassis a little, especially the J72, to get the correct ride height but only slightly. And yes, I well remember those 'convoys' of shunters from Alexandra Dock shed to Dairycoates though I only ever saw it once or twice with three or four locos - J71, J72's and a J73. And I never did see Jubilees on freight over the high level, though I'm told that Dairycoates did use these 6P's and even 7P's on such trip workings. It's one of the consolations of growing old, that I was around to see those days! Cheers Mike

Jonathan, The motor is the Mashima 1224, with a High Level 108 : 1 gearbox. I didn't fit a flywheel though it is possible to get one in with some judicious removal of the side tank mouldings inside the body. With this gearing and, provided that the chassis is free running, I felt I didn't need a flywheel. The loco will run at crawling speed but still has sufficient torque to pull or push a reasonable load at these very slow speeds. I did cram as much weight as I could into these but they still only weigh in at around 7 ozs. I should add that both this chassis and the J72 chassis are sprung; that makes a hell of a difference to the haulage capability, though the driven axle is rigid on both locos. These chassis' also use a combination of metal and plasticard frame spacers. I find it much easier to fit pickups to a plasticard base than to try and isolate them from the metal frame spacers. The Bachmann body has new front splashers, sprung NER taper buffers, new handrails and safety valves. I still have to make the new footplate steps and tank front handrails plus a few other details but, hopefully, the photo below gives some idea. Still a bit to do on this J71 chassis as well! Hope this helps. I took the photo, earlier in the thread, as I was doing my six monthly service of all of my locos - cleaning wheels and pickups, removing gunge and just oiling around the locos. Cheers Mike

Certainly is, Iain. These gearboxes are about as good as it gets and, once the final drive gear is secured to the driven axle and the gears meshed in, they are virtually silent. The J72 in the photograph will actually push that lot up a 1 in 50 with almost no reduction in speed and this at a scale 1 - 2 mph. I'm just completing a J71 (from the Bachmann J72 body) with the same arrangement and this has similarly prodiguous pulling and pushing ability. Usual disclaimer - I've no connection with High Level Models; just a very satisfied user. Cheers Mike

Bl--dy hell, what's this; an ex-LMS Jubilee passing through this bastion of the old NER and LNER? In the 1950's and 60's, Jubilees were a fairly common sight in Hull though they tended to come from the Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool sheds. Perhaps it's Saturday evening in high summer of 1950 and perhaps Nottingham shed's 45611 - Hong Kong - is on its way back to the Midlands with an excursion from Bridlington or Scarborough. Oh but the spotters on Shipyard bridge will be glad they made the journey to Hessle Haven, this evening, to see a Nottingham Jube! That J72, with its 108 : 1 gearing and 4' 0" driving wheels will easily outhaul the Jubilee, at least until the Jubilee is 'worked on', though at a somewhat slower speed. I really am going to have to paint some backscenes for this and the other sections of the railway. Yet another painting to do! Who said we slow down and do less, in retirement - not true! Cheers Mike

The photo of the offending chassis, in posting number 24. Is it just the photograph or is the rearmost driving wheel - the one adjacent to the bogie - missing a crankpin/crankpin nut? I guess the next question (if the answer to the above is yes) is does that have anything to do with the chassis problem? If the answer is no then over to someone else. Cheers Mike

Just by way of adding to the previous three or four postings a few photographs, black and white of course, which might convey something of how those sheds looked in their heyday. If you're wondering why these pictures are of an A6 and two of A7's; it's because they came from my Ax (tank) folder. Just look at that shaft of light striking the A6 on the first photograph - you could cut that with a knife. How many of us can remember the incredible light effects in these places as the sun shone through broken windows and skylights. I'm tempted to say that these places were cold, damp and very inhospitable places for those who worked in them and they were, especially in the winter. But as I read, in another topic area, that TMD buildings are being demolished and locos are now increasingly left out in the open, even examined and maintained in the open then I do wonder what working conditions the railway is now reverting to. In fact I wonder more generally what on earth is happening to the railway but that is another topic! Cheers Mike

I guess there were other things to do, not least A-levels. Yes there was still steam at work in a number of places but those that were left by mid 1966 were, for the most part, in a sorry state. I'd done most of the sheds in the Northeast in 1961 and 62, when the J26's, J27's, Q6's and Q7's were still intact classes and when those sheds were still vibrant, working places. No, I'm glad that I gave up before the end of steam; that would have been too depressing. So my abiding memories, apart from those wonderful sheds, are of summer days on York and Doncaster Stations in the late 1950's or the first time I ever saw GWR locomotives at Paddington in 1959 and many many more. Of course that inimitable smell, the smell of oily, smoky steam can still be experienced as can the thrill of seeing one of these living, breathing machines. This on the heritage lines up and down the country. And seeing an A4, a 'streak', pristine, lovingly maintained still evokes an enormous thrill, just as it did fifty odd years ago. Cheers Mike

In this week in history - Second Week of June 1966 As the title says, not a day in history but a Sunday afternoon in the second week of June in 1966. On that day I made my final visit to Hull Dairycoates, our local loco shed and a place I had bunked round hundreds of times. This was to be the last time I ever went round one of these incredible places. There was not a lot of steam around, a few Austerities and the odd standard plus some oddities like a J27 and a 4MT tank. But the K3's, the J25's and J39's, the J71's, J72's and J94's, the V3's and most of the B1's had all gone. By this time locos were being moved around all over the place as they eked out their last days prior to withdrawal, hence the oddities. The largest collection of locos was the scrap line in Dairycoates Seven Section up by the ash pits, awaiting their last journey to Drapers Scrapyard in Hull. I had made my final spotting trip in mid 1965, to Scotland; there to see some of the remaining A4's and the last of the Scottish A2's which, apart from works visits, rarely came south of Edinburgh. So, on that day in 1966, I really did put away the notebooks and the copies of the Ian Allan Combined Volumes which I had lovingly cherished from 1958 onwards. When I began spotting there must have been around 17,000 steam locos on British Railways, possibly more; I don't know how many were left by June 1966 but a much smaller number. But for me and thousands like me the interest had gone; it would never be the same ever again. So I took a last long lingering look at Hull Dairycoates shed - 50B -, this great cathedral of a place, dedicated to the steam locomotive. Yet this was one of literally dozens of similar places which I had visited over the preceding eight years. Within just over a year, steam would disappear completely from this shed and within two or three more years the shed would close completely. I could still remember the first day I ever saw this place - a Sunday in October 1958 - when it was crammed with locomotives; well over a hundred spread around the four tunrntables and the remains of the straight shed. So many memories, many of which live to this day. But above all were the memories of those great sheds. Dark they were, filthy they were, more often than not they were just downright decrepid but they were quite simply magical places and never more so than on those 'Steam Day Sunday Afternoons' when most of the locos had the day off. Cheers Mike

While I concentrate on things other than building the third section of the railway, let me post a photo to show the enormous changes which have taken place in the railway infrastructure in the last fifty years. Earlier in this thread is a photo of an EE Type 3 (Class 37) leaving one of the Hull marshalling yards. The photo below, for which I don't have a date but is certainly later than 1983 - when Hessle Haven signal box closed - shows the same locale. The marshalling yards have all been lifted and the area which they once covered is now rapidly being re-claimed by nature. The four track main line is now two track and the profusion of signals and pointwork has all gone. Compare that photo with a photo from fifty years ago of almost exactly the same place (perhaps a hundred yards further west as the cottages are still there), full of all of the paraphenalia which was part of the manually operated railway. I guess that's progress but, certainly for me, the interest, the fascination with this place, has passed into history. Cheers Mike

I don't tend to read very many of the layout threads - too many modern image layouts for a 'died in the wool' steam man like me - but yours is an exception. I love those long sweeping curves and the turnouts fabricated on the curves. Yep, this one is very definitely mandatory reading for me - and very many others, I would suspect. Many thanks for an inspirational layout and thread. Regards Mike

There really is nothing quite like these wonderful black and white photos of the railway scene in the 1950's and earlier; they're priceless for they can never be taken again. Your layout is a wonderful representation of what was a wonderful railway place. Cheers Mike

Mike, That's correct. The card is scribed before being coloured so that the mortar courses are just the natural card colour before being washed over with the very diluted weathered black and white spirit, after all of the water colouring has been done. Cheers Mike

Hi Pennine MC, No I don't have a date for the EE Type 3 photo. However it cannot be earlier than mid 1961, when Hull received its first Type 3's (D6730 - D6742) and cannot be later than mid 1963 when the gantry in the middle distance was removed and replaced by colour lights. 1961 or 1962 would be my guess. Cheers Mike