SED Freightman

11 minutes ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

 

Out of interest, do you know which class 37s turned up on the Galley Hill tanks?

Alas no, the 37's only appeared after the traffic source had switched from Grain to Thameshaven but I will look out for any mention of them while looking for more SED 47's.

We have previously had 47353 :-

1834 (47353) noted on an engineers train at London Bridge on 17/02/1973.

Many thanks Brian, I would never have guessed Wrexham.  Is it possible that the stone train could have been heading for Dunton Green, it seems an awful long way to go with a low value commodity ?

Thanks for all your thoughts so far.  I had looked at the Mendips (as a source of limestone) and thought perhaps Mells Road, but as The Johnster has pointed out it is perhaps more likely to be in the Peak District or possibly the East Midlands.  The picture formed (as far as I can recall) part of a photo feature in The Sevenoaks News relating to the construction of the A21 Sevenoaks Bypass and was the only one of railway interest, the caption was along the lines of 'this is one of the stone trains which were unloaded at Dunton Green from where the construction material was delivered by road'.  I have seen a photo of stone being unloaded from MDV's at Dunton Green but have no idea where the traffic originated from, it is of course possible that the newspaper just published a stock photo of a stone train rather than one of those that actually served Dunton Green.

I would be very grateful if anyone can identify the location of the photo below which depicts what I believe to be a train load of MoT Type 1 limestone loaded in MDV's.  The contents of the badly loaded wagons have yet to settle, therefore I would assume the location is not far from the loading point where loading has been carried out by a shovel / front loader rather than via an overhead hopper.  Apologies for the poor quality of the picture which is taken from a newspaper (long defunct) cutting published in 1972, if there is any problem with copyright I will ask for the photo to be removed.

Only a few 47's mentioned in the 1979 editions of the Railway Magazine, but they do include one shewn on the wanted list :-

47418 noted as working the 0900 Hoo Jn to Galley Hill tanks on 10/10/1978

47228 worked a Bedford to Margate excursion on 08/07/1979

47285 worked a Hayes & Harlington to Ramsgate excursion on 08/07/1979

56050 + 47327 worked an MGR train to Northfleet on 01/08/1979, this was alleged to be the first cl.56 working on the SED.

47510 was noted at Hither Green on 06/08/1979

The earliest mention of 47's on the SED that I have found in the Railway Magazine appears in the August 1969 edition where it was reported that 1597 & 1933 had been noted passing Canterbury East on excursions from the Midlands to Dover Marine on 15/06/1969.

Slightly more recent reports from the 1977 & 1978 editions :-

47088 noted on the Strood to Paddock Wood line on 16/06/1977

47096 noted on the Strood to Paddock Wood Line on 25/06/1977

47323 & 47359 were hauling a Welbeck to Northfleet MGR train which derailed at Mottingham on 11/10/1977

47104 worked a trip from Norwood to Bricklayers Arms on 05/08/1978

47030 worked the Night Ferry ECS from Victoria (to Stewarts Lane ?) on 25/08/1978

Have discovered my own notes from 1977 which also include a couple more from the wanted list :-

47247 seen passing Bat & Ball on a Merthyr to Folkestone excursion on 12/06/1977.

47203 seen passing Sevenoaks on a Weston Super Mare to Dover Priory Adex on 14/08/1977

47008 seen passing Sevenoaks on a Oxford to Hastings (via Ashford) Adex on 14/08/1977

47446 seen passing Sevenoaks on a Barry to Hastings (via Ashford) Mystex on 14/08/1977

47464 worked a Ramsgate to Newcastle 'Pleasure Seeker' excursion from Ashford to Newcastle and back to Brent Jn after a cl.33 failed at Ashford on the outward journey on 22/10/1977.

47063 seen heading south through Sevenoaks on 10/11/1977

The following were all noted at Tonbridge West Yard :-

47029 on 12/09/1977

47465 on 14/09/1977

47252 on 20/09/1977

47236 on 17/10/1977

47511 on 19/10/1977

47250 on 28/10/1977

47239 on 11/11/1977

47119 on 15/11/1977

47128 on 16/11/1977

47031 on 17/11/1977

47533 on 18/11/1977

47061 on 21/11/1977

47142 on 22/11/1977 & 24/11/1977.

47249 on 29/11/1977

47013 on 01/12/1977

On 12/09/2020 at 23:15, keefer said:

1976 R.O.

19/06/76 47356(TO) [green livery] on High Wycombe-Margate. This was one of four Ercol Charter trains, each headed by cl.47s - one failed just before the return journey.

 

The above specials also get a mention in the Railway Magazine (September 1976 edition) which states that the four Ercol specials on 19/06/1976 were worked by 47108, 47178, 47475 & 47488, so one of the reports is incorrect unless perhaps one of these is the failed loco.

Other 47's to get a mention in 1976 editions of the Railway Magazine were :-

47354 piloting 45112 through Clapham Junction on a Northfleet coal train on 24/10/1975

47076 noted at Hoo Junion on 11/02/1976

47293 worked a Mexborough to Herne Bay special on 15/05/1976

Going back a bit, 1970 editions of the Railway Magazine mention the following :-

1577 noted at Hither Green Depot on 16/11/1969

1670 worked a return Cardiff to Dover Mystex on 21/06/1970, photo of the train passing Sandling appears on pg.531 of the September 1970 edition.

1999 was noted passing Maidstone West light engine in the direction of Strood on 16/07/1970

1665 worked a 1Z61 Cardiff to Margate special on 19/07/1970

1762 worked a 1Z62 Rhymney to Margate special on 19/07/1970

Only a couple of workings mentioned in the 1973 editions of The Railway Magazine, but they do include two locos on the required list :-

1834 (47353) noted on an engineers train at London Bridge on 17/02/1973.

1505 (47406) worked a Hull to Hastings special as far as Ashford on 24/03/1973, train worked forward accross the marshes by a Cl.33.

1811 (47082) worked a Reading to Margate special on 26/06/1973.

Only a few mentioned in the 1975 editions of The Railway Magazine :-

47226 worked a Plymouth to Folkestone West special (MoD?) and ECS back to Old Oak Common on 08/01/1975.

47088 worked a Yeovil Pen Mill to Canterbury West Footex on 11/01/1975.

47177 worked the 1200 Snowdon Colliery to Acton coal train on 13/01/1975.

47088 noted leaving Dover on what may have been a Motorail service on 02/07/1975.

47123 worked a Derby to Margate excursion on 07/08/1975.

47107 (failed) + 11 coaches destined Derby noted passing Herne Bay on 07/08/1975, being propelled by 4BEP+4CEP  to Faversham where the 47 was replaced by 33044. This may have been the return working of the excursion  worked by 47123.

47247 worked an Oxford to Ramsgate special on 18/08/1975.

47366 (in green livery) worked Thatcham to Hoo Junction ety tanks in late August 1975.

Not new sightings for the master list but the following details from 1974 editions of the Railway Magazine might be of interest :-

1666 'Odin' in green livery worked a 1Z88 Llanelli to Canterbury West Mystex in Feb 1972 - Photo of train at Factory Jn appeared in March 1974 edition, page 119.

1811 in green livery worked a Loughborough to Herne Bay (ECS to/from Margate) Mystex ON 15 July 1973 - Article detailing trip appeared in March 1974 edition, page 118.

1805 worked a Leicester to Herne Bay Mystex on 15 July 1973, mentioned in March  1974 edition, page 120.

47233 worked a Cardiff to Ramsgate Mystex from Reading on 19/08/74, mentioned in November edition, page 572.

47315 + 55 (Cl.45) worked an MGR train to Northfleet on 07/09/74, mentioned in December edition, page 619.

I will continue to look through my old copies of the Railway Magazine in case any of the missing 47's get a mention.

What you (HGR) say about the loose diagrams being newer is interesting as I was starting to reach that conclusion myself, although some of my 'loose' diagrams are in the cover of a Freight Stock (B) Book, Part 1, these do appear to be old diagrams removed from Book 320.

I cannot find any copies of HY 001A & B.

So here are the last of the requested diagrams, those missing are missing, whilst ST 009N, VB 003C & VB 003E are from the loose pile.

I have only found three of the requested diagrams from series H to M, all from my copy of Book 320 (Part 2).

Just a few of the requested F series appear in my copy of Book 320 (Part 2), FV 003A & FW 001A (Boflat) were in the loose diagram pile.

None of the requested  'C' diagrams appear in my copy of Book 320 (Part 1), so those copied below are all from the loose diagram pile.

Sorry, just noticed that I should have scanned diagram BC 003B not A, so here it is.

With regard to diagram BA 001A, Issue 3, the wagon ends appear to have been removed, presumably to balance the additional weight of the cradles, leaving the wagon tare and load capacity unchanged, this might suggest that the cradles were to be a semi permanent addition.

Here we go again with the requested 'B' series wagons, unfortunately not too successful with regard to those required.  I have copied both diagram BA001A (Issue 2 - Stanchions) and BA001A (Issue 3 - Stanchions and Cradles) as the latter was discovered in my collection of loose sheets.

On 28/11/2020 at 23:33, HGR said:

Revision Letter 1 is what got you from the B.R. (B) series books into the first issue of Book 320. Please can you have a look at the Revision Letter 1 for Part 4, to see if it lists any diagrams that were amended or added ? (part 1 had some diagram amendments, but parts 2 & 3 were just the covers changed from the look of it).

 

Can you have a look to see if any of your book 320 parts have a copy of Revision Letter 2 and 3 ?

 

If your pile of loose diagram pages does throw up missing ones that you don't have in Book 320, but are on my list, then you could well be sitting on the goldmine that is the stuff culled during or prior to the B.R. (B) books. Particularly also if you find diagrams that are not in book 320 and neither are on my list. For example if you come across HM [001A] that would have been allocated to the bogie iron ore hoppers used on the Tyne Dock - Consett ore trains. These survived up till 1974, but I never saw any with TOPS codes on them. Mind you, didn't see any with '64 style 'boxed' lettering either for that matter ! Just 56 T above the wagon number.

Unfortunately, I cannot locate copies of the actual Revision Letters, strangely I do have the distribution letters that were attached to several of them, but not the sheets detailing which diagrams were to be amended, inserted or disposed of, I guess the actual diagrams were more interesting and so I retained at least some of them.

I do not have any diagrams for the HM bogie iron ore hoppers.

I look forward to seeing your database of diagrams in due course, just in case I have copies of any diagrams that are not listed.

5 hours ago, HGR said:

SED Freightman :

 

As well as VW 002A that you had spotted I had missed off my list, I've also missed off VP 004A - can you have a look if you have that one as well please ?

As requested, also I have found two of the missing digrams from your original request in amongst my collection of loose sheets.  Alas, a quick look has not revealed any more of the missing diagrams so I have a nasty feeling they may have been used as scrap / note paper or for the file copies of letters in the days when carbon paper was still in general use.

On 29/11/2020 at 16:56, HGR said:

Was the mass exodus of 12 T VANFITs in the early '70s around about the same time parcels traffic was disappearing off the railways ? A cull at this stage would have fortuitously saved someone a sizeable job entering all of them onto TOPS. 

C & D Parcels with the concentration depots finished in 1982, did the Sundries traffic (less than full load) switch to NCL (hence road transport) in the early 70's, this traffic would have used a lot of vans.

Finally, the requested Mineral Wagons.  Diagram MC 003E does not appear in my amended copy of Book 320, Part 2, however I will have a look through my collection of loose diagrams for this and the other missing diagrams when I get a chance next week.

As I have Book 320 (Part 3) to hand, here are the requested Open Wagon diagrams, unfortunately I cannot locate copies of OH003C/OW003C, OH019E/OW015D or OH020A.

The last of the Vans - Part 2 (Final)

The last of the vans - Part 1.  I do not have copies of diagrams VV 035A or VV 036A, although there are a few diagrams in Book 320 (Part 4) that have not been requested (eg. VW 002A) which presumably you already have ?

Fruit & Ale to finish the day.