Philou

Hello chums, I haven't had an opportunity to fiddle with the fiddle yard to incorporate your ideas, it's been a 'things must be done' day today. But just to show that our thoughts haven't been too far apart - here's one I prepared a few months ago. I recognise that the MPD is not prototypical in layout but I was playing around with ideas at the time. In this variation, access to the storage areas/MPD would have been via the branch-lines and release stock movements, by means of a yard pilot, would have been along either of the branches. Having arrived now with two branch-lines (plan at post #1), it would be a shame, in my view, to replace them with the additional storage and/or the MPD. I will have a go and see what can be done in incorporating a standard turntable somewhere to serve the storage area and yet retain the branch-lines. I will also need to remember to provide head shunts for the yard pilot and stock - probably in parallel to both incoming single tracks - it could look quite good (in my minds eye). Cheers, Philip

@ Harlequin @Chimer @The Stationmaster I can see the advantage of turning a whole train around as to the eye it would look as if it was different stock being run - even just to vary what is available. I hadn't thought of a variation of the traverser mentioned by scottystitch earlier, in having TWO of them - it would indeed get rid of any reverse polarity. I had intended to have that covered by an auto-detect system via DCC that is currently available - in the end though why complicate matters electrically - there will be enough going on already! Regarding the auto uncouplers, are they homemade? I already have two diagrams both of which are from different dates but neither of the ones I have show any of the pointwork inside the yard. However, I do take the point (sorry!) and one not previously thought by me - yes, why not shunt onto the mainline if it's not that busy. Perversely, it seems that Pontrilas, though a less busy branch, was better laid out to avoid over-much use of the mainline. Perhaps Ledbury was more confined being hemmed in by the Malvern Hills one side and a road bridge and falling ground immediately to the other. I'll try and revise the fiddle/storage area and put it on-line probably tomorrow. Cheers, Philip PS: Just a bit of advance warning - if the thread continues over the weekend - I have to be away for a few days from Saturday and I don't think I shall have access to the wifi - so all being well I shall be back on Wednesday/Thursday.

On a further point regarding handling of locos - I just use the proprietary RTR couplings on my stock - should I be looking at a Kadee type coupling on the loco and at each end of the stock so as to have an automated or semi-automated system to uncouple the locos? The downside it seems there are umpteen models to choose from whereas the UK coupler (usually) is a one-size fits all but a b***er to undo without faffing around. I know nothing of Spratt and Winkle, though it seems popular on exhibition layouts. Cheers, Philip Edit: Tidying up

My gaster is absolutely fabbered! Some of you must have been up half the night thinking this through - so thanks for that. I agree with the fundamental idea that stock shouldn't be handled too much regarding fine (and fragile) detail and paintwork - despite good intentions - I note that weathering can be prone to 'finger attack' regardless of any varnish overcoat. I reckon it must be the natural acidity of the sweat pores that does it. Engineering-wise I have no issue in constructing a yuuuuge turntable to turn whole trains around - one point raised and would be answered by that - I had completely overlooked any guards van attached to the rear - or even any fitted vans (perishable goods) that I have seen at the end of passenger stock. For those that haven't seen it (and I think it was in another thread) there is an excellent early 1950s colour film showing a variety of passenger steam hauled stock (and a couple of early diesels) wherein there is a shot of the 'Golden Arrow' at the foot of the White Cliffs of Dover (drifts off into song) arriving at Dover with a couple of freight vans attached - which surprised me as I thought it was a particularity of branch line workings (newspaper trains notwithstanding). I will fiddle with the storage area - I may come back again to an earlier plan that I had with its MPD and turntable as that had a headshunt and yard pilot to allow the release of stock and its loco - but it means that one of the branches would have to go - which would be a pity. Some stock movement won't require loco release as moving into a more modern period being diesel hauled and no guards van would mean simply attaching a different diesel to haul the stock out - which could apply to the steam era but with manual handling (loco lifts) IF there is no turntable. Regarding the one station/two stations debate, I do have the opportunity to lay plain track and no ballasting through one of the stations on the prepared alignment, lightly pinned in place and when ready, lift and replace as necessary with the turnouts and crossings for the station. So that to me is certainly a way forward as it will maintain an interest with roundy-roundy for say bulk freight and longer distance passenger traffic and one station in place with its branch for shunting movements. Again, thanks for your thoughts - a lot to consider. Philip

@ Anglian, @roythebus, @scottystitch Well! What can I say? You guys have come up trumps regarding the NLS site. I had seen a copy of the plan before but not blown up as much and definitely not as clear. However I am still stumped as to what is going on with pointwork outside of the goods shed. The OS sheets tend to show the tie bars of the points - in this case some are visible others not. For example: on the main line there is a trailing single slip leading to the goods yard as 'normal' practice - visible on photos, but in this instance no tie bars shown. Anyway, moving along the track out of the goods shed towards the station there is a diamond crossing followed by? Are they two short radiused points back to back? Double slip? There has to be something to enable freight and goods vans to be released from the shed road without encumbering the main line. Then what is all of that just to the east of the diamond - plain crossing? Slip? And what after that? Another plain crossing or a slip? Questions questions questions (or as Manuel would say Que?). This has left me a little perplexed. @Anglian I'm coming round to your, and The Stationmaster's, way of thinking and doing the stations in two bites. I can also see the reasoning in having just one station and leaving the south (or just as easily the north) side as landscape. I feel though that it would be too much landscape - though in another iteration of the plan as a figure of 8 I did have a quarry so as to generate traffic - could have that instead of a station. Again in another version, instead of having one of the branch stations (Newent) I did have a fully fledged MPD with high level triple coaling stage (borrowed from the TVR yard in Cathays Cardiff) and a turntable - now that would have kept me busy just operating it alone!! It was a bit OTT or so I thought at the time .......... hmmmmm I'm jigging the plan at the moment so I can see how a turntable fits on the end of the fiddle yard. I'll have to remember to keep one track free as a release road . Thanks again for your help, all of you. Philip

@JeffP Fortunately the barn is stone built and does not get hot in the summer - but in the winter when it rains, the damp gets in - but not through the roof as that is new. When the roof was redone 24 months ago, the walls were hacked about to remove timbers that extended from the rafters outwards - but even though the damp gets in, it airs very quickly via the gaps between the roofing timbers and the walls. This will be made good when the barn rendering is removed and the walls repointed. The missing stonework will be made good and new doors and windows put in place, and more importantly, made secure - if only for insurance purposes AND stopping any wildlife getting in. Heating will be provided via a wood-burning stove (known here as a 'turbo'). Thanks for the thought, Philip

@ Stationmaster, Thanks for the heads-up regarding the book. Ledbury lies within 'Herefordshire' which is not in the listing. I wonder if it may have come under the Midland Region? Regarding your earlier comment of the choice of area - I happen to have acquired recently a 'Webb' tank - so that would add to the variety of train movements - a line of PO wagons taking coal northwards and empties back. As an aside, I only bought it as there was a nice photo in a publication that showed the 'Webb' taking on coal at the TVR's Cardiff East depot and I thought of doing a little (non-working) cameo of the picture. Cheers, Philip

@marc smith I hope I'm not going to lead myself OT, but in reply to Bud's, both Peter and I were there at the same time - he started and finished after me. I was in railways and he in military modelling. In respect of the Golden Valley, Peter and I connected are to it obliquely as our father served part of the war at the airfield base - a bit of a 'hush hush' area now I believe - which might have been (or nearby to) the army camp. There was a munitions dump that was served by the GVR for some time after the goods and passenger services stopped in the early 1950s. It could well be the army camp IS the dump. Whether it is or not will give me an excuse to run some gunpowder vans from Pontrilas along the branch . Thanks for your information, Cheers, Philip

Ooh, before I forget, Would any of you kind souls who read this topic, have by chance, a track plan of the Ledbury goods yard. I have found plenty of photos on the web, but the signal box always appears to be in line with the goods shed. Photos at different periods tend to indicate changes in the layout but I can't see the turnouts leading out of the shed. The OS sheets for the site show changes from 1889 through to the 1980s but unfortunately the detail is not too easy to discern. Thanks, Philip

@jf2682 I agree that I ought to get to grips with the construction side of it - however as mentioned in my introduction I have nowhere to start it yet. I do have a club module though that will keep me occupied for a while longer (though work is slow especially as SWIMBO gives me 'that look' if I work on the dining room table ). The club modules are all on 10mm ply but no bigger than 1.2m x 900mm so perhaps the small size is more resistant to abuse, I'll think on what you say regarding the thickness and do some further research on the point. Cheers, Philip

Thanks Stationmaster, I had seen on other topics that you always had positive things to say - so I appreciate your remarks. Insofar as the construction aspect is concerned - yes I agree there is a lot to chew upon - but I've been working on this old farmhouse for 12 years and it's coming to an end despite having the blues from time to time - so I have high expectations to get the base and trackwork down fairly quickly. I had thought of doing one station at a time - I have plenty of track in stock just for that purpose - so your thoughts are perhaps the way to go. Cheers, Philip

Hi Philou here, Thanks to all of you above who have had a look and made such positive responses: I started the topic as I was concerned that perhaps there was too much - I'm sure you all know 'more is less'. Having seen G scale layouts in a cake-box (yeah - I know, exaggeration ) I just wondered if I might have persuaded myself that this was the way to go. Seemingly so far, the message I'm getting is 'go for it' subject to tweaking. Insofar as the peninsular is concerned, it just happened that way as other plans I had created on the same basic layout had a continuous fiddle yard served by both the branch lines, the fiddle yard ended up under both stations. It would have meant strange stock movements along branch-lines. Additionally, when gradients were calculated it ended up with about 100mm (4") freeboard between the top of stock and the underside of the top boards - which would have been a logistical nightmare for hand of god deity movements! However, it was fantastic for storage space. Another reason is that I'm not getting younger (who is - unless you're Benjamin Button) and I'll be 70 by the time this is set up - so at least I can avoid crawling on hands and knees to get from one side to another. 'Aha' I hear you say, 'what about access?' What is not shown, and it's a matter with which I have to settle when redoing the beams and flooring of the space in the barn, access is from below. Hopefully it'll be a little better than just a trap door and a ladder. There will need to be a trap of some sorts in order to make the best use of the floor space. On a previous plan I had shown a traverser plus a space to allow cassettes to be linked in to allow for storage off-stage and of course stock reversal. I left them off so as not to have too much showing on the plan. You will note that there is no MPD - none of the stations had one. Ledbury had a turntable that seems to have been used by banking (or in GWR parlance assisting) engines for the climb through the tunnel. There is a photo of a 2-8-0T being used so more scope for operating interest. Insofar as running the layout is concerned - yes I agree there is a lot for one person - I am hoping that DCC will be the 'third person'. I also belong to a club (not so local to me) and a few are into DCC but they use the Roco Multimaus using a plug and play system with RJ45 plugs so they can literally follow 'their' train around the circuit. I reckon it's 'doable' alone but with the possibility of maybe 5 or more operators - but that means running to a strict timetable (of which they seem to have no concept in running the club layout - but what the heck it's just for fun - no?). Having read the above comments, I shall twiddle the plan and see what happens. So, thanks for your views, I feel far more optimistic about it. Cheers, Philip

@ Apollo Thanks for the input - I'm still considering going for it - but I'll wait until perhaps others have had a say. However, I will rework the plan to see what the raising of the two branches looks like - I did it that way so the fiddle yard access wasn't encumbered. If my track laying skills are OK and pointwork remotely operated via ECoS, I suppose it doesn't matter that the throat cannot be seen. Regards, Philip

Have I painted myself into a corner? Hello chums and chumesess, Philou here, I have a layout in mind that has been over 40 years in the waiting and I have drawn up various plans over the last two via Scarm. However, I have the feeling that I'm not getting the best out of the space I have available and I would appreciate your thoughts. A bit of background: Ever since being a young teenager I had been a collector of locos and rolling stock ready for the big layout. It did help that I worked part-time from 1965 'til 1981 in Bud Morgans of Cardiff. However, I tended to collect whatever happened to catch my fancy – mostly Western Region at the time. Fast forward to around 2013 when I decided that it was time to start on this layout. My brother Peter, he of Lord and Butler, persuaded me (not that I needed much persuasion) that DCC was the way to go and so I now have an EcoS2 and about 20 'modern' RTR models either sound chipped or waiting to be chipped – but again no particular area. I have steam and modern traction but I do have a penchant for older or 'one-off' diesels. I have decided that my 60-odd locos bought previously will not be chipped – they won't be cast aside – but will taken out for a spin on DC from time to time (when recently run, only 3 refused to go and that was mainly due to internal electrical conductivity). 'Hurry up there – what about the layout?' I hear you say. OK, I have an area of about 7.5m x 5.5m (24'6” x 18' in old money) in a barn that is at the moment waterproof but not weather-tight. There is the small issue of rotten flooring beams to be replaced and a brand new floor laid to level. These works will be done this year The grand plan is to build it on 10mm ply with 10mm ply fascias and reinforcement underneath in modules such that if ever I consider the finished article to be show worthy then I can take it apart - though I think it will be too big to be frank. Given the area to play with I decided that I should not compromise on station length nor on minimum radii – 1.0m. However, once outside the station throat then compression has to occur – it seems unavoidable. Peco 75 track and points are to be used at 45mm centres (not 50mm). I have seen on another thread that Peco pointwork can be bent slightly to provide alternative radii so more near-prototypical pointwork can be achieved. At the moment the plans have ended up as a roundy-roundy, two short branchlines and a massive fiddle/stockage yard. Two stations envisaged – Pontrilas with its Golden Valley branch and Ledbury with its Newent branch. Pontrilas: This station no longer exists – only the station building as a private dwelling, the signal box and a refuge siding. I have seen photos on t'intertubes dating from pre-1920 to the early 1950s, and until the station disappeared not very much changed – save a single slip that became a double slip (presumably during war-time), refuge sidings that became goods loops and of course the cessation of goods and passenger traffic in the very early 1950s to the Golden Valley. Why Pontrilas? Hard to say. I think it was the fact it was on a main line and it had a branch line that gave me the opportunity to consider through goods and passenger trains plus branch line traffic served by small tender or 0-6-0/0-4-2 locos (Hilda and John Owen worked the line). The station itself was long enough to take 10 coach trains – which means I can run HST units. There is plenty of photographic evidence of freight and other passenger stock running through the disused station. (Rule 1 will apply ) In addition there is an opportunity to run freight in the 1950s along the branch to serve a munitions depot that had been created during WW II. Ledbury: This station still exists and I used it a few times when I lived there – services to Birmingham and London, though the station buildings and goods yard (save for a refuge siding) no longer exist. The signal box is still there. There was, until the 1960s, the junction with the Ledbury-Gloucester line. The junction itself was gradually reduced from a double track junction to a double track junction serving a single track to a single junction to nothing. Again an opportunity arises to run Castles with six coaches along the main line with smaller pannier or prairie locos and eventually GWR railcars serving the branch. However, in modern times HSTs serve Ledbury, even though the platform is too short, through grandfather rights. The line is used very occasionally for freight diversions. What makes this an interesting station is the trackwork from the Birmingham/London side is single, and always has been, leading into a very narrow bore tunnel on a 1:80 rising grade. Towards Hereford the track was doubled (now reduced to single) over an impressive 16arch brick-built viaduct. Why am I asking for help? I think I may have painted myself into a corner as I have become completely 'fixed' on this 2-station roundy-roundy and given the area I have at my disposal, am I making the best use of the space? That, I know is very subjective. As I see it, the plan (or plans as I have 10 similar on the same theme) ticks the right boxes: a) Roundy-roundy double track for mainline running (Rule 1 can be invoked to permit non GWR/LMS/Western region trains – diversions and errr …. just because). b) Not one but TWO branchlines which can provide plenty of shunting and stock movements when bored of the roundy-roundy. Plus there was a small rail served (pre-1940) chemical works at Pontrilas so more movements possible. c) I have enough stock to provide formations from 1900s through to 2017 (even though Pontrilas has gone – Rule 1). d) A large one-ended fiddle yard centrally place that can be accessed on both sides for hand of god movements and stockage. e) Restricted traffic movements through Ledbury tunnel therefore mainline operating interest. f) Opportunity for oodles of landscaping – river valley at Pontrilas.. Malvern Hills above the Ledbury tunnel (600 feet which is about 2m high). Ledbury viaduct (in a shortened form) at the other end. Neither town is urban in nature. Having seen yesterday (at the time of writing this) the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeTbAXSEuZk) of the Cardiff (Small) Show and what can be achieved in a small area, am I trying to be too big and possibly biting off too much and perhaps go for something else – or plod on (notwithstanding changes that you might suggest)? I'm ready to plod on – but will I be bored? Will I have time to be bored? I have given myself a year to do the barn (and 'things that must be done' in his best Mrs domestic management voice) and a year to lay the track, of which I have already 50% in stock. What do you think? Alternatives considered: Given the area I have, I wanted a prototypical location and based in the GWR/Western territory. Cardiff Central: Excellent for local, mainline and block train movements (even Motorail), but even my 7.5m x 5.5m wouldn't do it justice. Queen Street: Perhaps with the above (too big), but on its own only local passenger and block movements of coal – no mainline running and no other freight traffic. Clarence Road: I saw on RMWeb this location and The Johnster of this parish gave a lot of detail too. Nice single line terminus station with oodles of industrial movements as well. Limited in what can run and definitely no long stock formations. Other possibilities: terminus to fiddle yard with branch and roundy-roundy. But I had that until 1972 (station based on one of CJ Freezers Larger Layout plans) . Or should I consider a looped 8 – plenty of room. Kind regards, Philip Here are two copies of the latest plan plus a 3-D view. Take no notice of the signalling or scenery for the moment. The one copy has the scenery removed for clarity.

Hi Philou here, Well! It looks as if I missed a cracking 'small' show. Saw the video - thank you Mr Masterman for sharing - at least I and probably many others have had a taster of what it was like. If it's on again next year, I'll certainly try to get there. Cheers, Philip

@valleymodeller Even being his brother and trying to resist as much as possible, I think his till has some hypnotic effect on my wallet whenever I get to go there . Seems to work over the 'phone too . @nhy581 I've was lucky enough to be in Cardiff once the same weekend as the show - quite well done for what was a 'small show'! I think he enjoys being part of it too. Have a good day all! Philip

Hi Philou here, Can I give an unashamed plug for my brother? He's Peter, the Lord bit of Lord and Butler. If some of you going to the show could say 'hello' to him on my behalf - be a surprise for him . I can't go as I am about 600 miles away. Cheers and enjoy the day, Philip

@Pacific231G Hi (or should I say 'bonsoir'), Philou here, I've just caught up with this thread - unfortunately I haven't seen the episodes as I can't get UK television where I am (I don't have a VPN gateway). It's a reply to the OT point of the CFDS. I have found the location of the property on Google Maps if you haven't already so done. I couldn't see any earthworks via the Satellite - but as mentioned, it lies in an area that is heavily wooded. Here's the link: https://www.google.fr/maps/place/45370+M%C3%A9zi%C3%A8res-lez-Cl%C3%A9ry/@47.8175835,1.8469584,1308m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47e4e8c3ae2587a1:0x40dc8d70537da00!8m2!3d47.818596!4d1.804427 @Nearholmer Might I guess that CFDS stood for Chemin de Fer de la Sologne - as the property lies in the Sologne. Cheers, Philou Gah! As I was typing this response so 231G came up with the precise reply - sorry.

Hi, Philou here, I thought I was the only one struggling with what seems to be an eternal problem of the visualised and creation of the ideal layout. Mrs P is allowing me the use of a mezzanine area in our French barn - no roof beams for me - oh no! I have a rotten floor instead to deal with first . Timber to replace the floor beams have arrived and are currently drying out. HOWEVER, as pointed out above, there do seem to be innumerable other tasks 'that must be done!' before I can get started on my project . Here's some of the list: Internal stairs to be renewed with new treads and risers and no step is the same as the one before. However, being currently being prepared and should be complete in about 3 weeks - yay! External render to be hacked-off the house and barn and replaced with lime and sand pointing. This will take forever!!!! I know - it took me a month to do about 50sq.m and there's another 250sq.m to go and stonework has to be replaced in the barn walls to make it really weather tight as otherwise I shall have unwanted passengers aboard my trains . The work can neither be done when cold and wet nor hot and dry - spring and autumn time only really. A sundeck to build before the summer is here and ideally AFTER I re-point so as not to spoil the decking. A french drain (I suppose it would be french as it is where we are ) to the front of the house as we are below the level of the adjoining highway and get ingress of damp from time to time. If I've been good and my flooring timbers are dry I might be able to get started before my 68th birthday looms towards the end of the year. I have waited 40 (yes - 40years) for this layout so another year won't matter I suppose . To the layout itself - I know what I want from it and I know how it will be constructed. I'm on my 7th or 8th version of it via SCARM - BUT I am not happy with what I see. I am in the fortunate position that I have an area of 7.5m x 5.5m (24'6" x 18' in old money) with which to play. I did decide that I should not compromise on the station sizes (2) that are based on real locations. However, even with all that space available when I got to the practicalities of it all (gradients not steeper than 1:100, for example, or curves not less than 1.0m) it still can't be done as I had visualised it in my head. (Question: Should I start a thread elsewhere so I can ask pretty please for help? I'm a little reluctant to do that as I have wasted the three last evenings of my life reading 21 pages on another thread that was basically me! me! me! without any input from the OP. I wanted to shoot myself (metaphorically) by the time I got to page 10 - Mr Harlequin of this parish will know to whom I refer - it made me cross!!!) So chums out there - if you want to create your layout - even on a piece of paper or a computer screen - do it, and play around with the layout. If you can't actually do any layout work due to time/space/cash/SWIMBO, then get a piece of board, a length of track to lay it on and just use it to try out your ballasting and rail painting skills. Wire it up, place some low relief building on it use to put some stock on it to test (as I did) or just put stock on display. I found it therapeutic while I wait my turn ). Good luck and good visualising, Philip Edited: Minor typos ..... gah!

@Peterfgf @adb968008 @Garry Thanks for your info - I believe I read your posts regarding the travails of the 'burn-outs' , and the 'insurance' of having motors in stock . As I haven't YET run the thing very long nor had any load behind it, I may go for the insurance route as there is no way I would consider dumping/reselling the model on as I particularly like it. I will investigate if Mashimas are still in stock (price notwithstanding) or go for some Australian based motors (about £7 each plus P+P) that were amongst those on the list shown at about pg86. I saw last night that Olivia's had all 12 in stock (but no numbers as to how many of each), being re-motored and warrantied for between £240 and £280 a piece - which if the motors are good'uns - then it is, IMHO, still quite a lot of loco for the money. Peter, I think your offer of writing up the procedure would be much appreciated. Thanks again for your views, Philip Gah! Edited for typos.

Happy New Year everyone. I'm very late joining this particular party as I've only recently joined the RMWebbers Club and found this thread. The tales within are not terribly encouraging. I've read all 94 pages in the last three days or so with great interest as I bought one of these eons ago. I can't remember which particular one and my collection is stored away at the moment so I'm not able to access it easily. As made mention way up in this thread I can confirm there is at least a third one here in France . When I bought it, I sound chipped it almost straight away (whether before or after I ran it, I don't recall). It has run for about 1/2 hour at my local club as I have no layout or track set up. The members (all French) were mightily impressed by the loco especially as it was ever so smooth straight from the box. I can say, hand on heart, that it didn't pull anything other than itself around the track. I did not perceive any issues regarding the pony truck lifting or differences in speed between fore and aft motor units - I wasn't looking out for problems either - and the standard of the track is not good as it has been assembled and disassembled for shows many times. Track radius is in the order of 2' minimum and all in Peco 100. I do, however, have a question: Should I be buying some spare motors just in case? I think the answer will be 'yes'. If so, from where should I try to source them: a: Direct from Heljan b: From Olivia's c: From Ebay/Ali baba at about £3 - £7 a piece (I saw a list of possible sources on page 86 or thereabouts - though some seem to be sold out), or; d: Go Mashima (if still available)? Your thoughts would be welcome. Philip

@Red Fox Thanks for the additional info regarding whether the window is blank or otherwise - the matter seems to be more and more complex. However, as the number of the coach was not visible so no way of confirming one or the other, did you notice that the formation in the latter video was not being pulled by 'The Welshman' power units and that the blanked off part of the seating area window was not straight cut but rounded-off? It looks as if it's a new purpose-made glazed insert. Could this be formation LA16 that according to Abrail (mid-November 2017) is also finished in green? My head is beginning to hurt = . ............. and I haven't started any varnishing yet. Thanks too for your info regarding what you did regarding the varnish. Cheers, Phil

@Red Fox, Hi Philou again, You may want to look at these You Tube videos that I chanced upon regarding the blanked off windows in the TSD coach 'C'. You are right that the 'glossy' side toilet toplight is clear - but that seems to have been in 2015/16. In 2017, within 'The Welshman' formation, the toplight is blanked off - not in green as I had first thought but an off-white colour - the same as that shown in 'royaloak''s photo above - as indeed all the toplights in the particular video dated the 02/02/2017 seem to show. Of course it may be that other changes have occured to the toilet window between then and now. I'm going for the date of mid-November for my stock numbers as shown on the Abrail site and (unless I can find a similar off-white colour to that shown in the video) I shall keep the white of the existing stock as provided by Hornby. The good news for me was I was able to peel off the green acrylic without damaging the existing white paint below using a chisel ended cocktail stick. Anyway, here are the links to the videos if they are of use to you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqIG_c8kppk dated 9/12/15 (about 1:00 in) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhLpE5Z389M dated 6/02/16 (about 0:30 in) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9MCAY6z4PI dated 2/02/17 (about 0:48 in). Cheers, Phil

Hi Philou, yet again, @ Red Fox, Well, I think your colour match is better than mine and thanks for the additional info regarding the 'clear' toilet window on the coach's 'gloss' side. From the photo to which "royal oak" kindly linked, I thought it was painted in gloss green. My error for not looking twice - so I'll have to take that off and not re-apply it. I like your finish on 'The Welshman' transfers - I have used the Railtec ones. What varnish did you use and perhaps more importantly how did you apply it? I'm a little nervous regarding using a brush as my finish was not to the standard of 40 years ago . I have a brand new Iwata air-brush that has never been used for any fine finish work - something else I'll have to master too. BTW, have you matt coated the all-green toilet window? I only ask as I can't tell from the photo. Good luck with finishing coach 'C' , and I hope the doors haven't been too badly affected. Cheers, Phil

Hi Philou here again, Reporting back on my colour trial. It's shown up several things: 1. Don't report on things until you've tried them out - saves peoples' eyeball time, 2. It saves typing time and eating humble pie, 3. My hand-painting skills are pants, 4. The colour in artificial light shows up as almost black when looked at at certain angles - though the colour wasn't a bad match when looked at face-on, 5. The colour in daylight is a shade too blue - almost an artificial Christmas tree green - which is disappointing. I will now try airbrushing on other pre-coloured surfaces first and also try my own mix if needs be - THEN I'll report back. Cheers, Phil