Harlequin

Apologies to Phil (Harlequin) for overlooking that last post while I was doing my version!

That looks very nice. My only concern is the width of the boards, the top & right part is probably ok but the left board needs to be a bit narrower & the fiddle yard can't be more than around 9" as it will be sitting above the desk (which is where the mugs of tea & coffee can go! ). Nevertheless, I think adopting a cassette version rather than fixed sidings would be workable & get over that problem.

The added scenic details make it seem a lot more tangible too. I would probably downgrade the goods shed to a concrete store as it's more typical of the line but otherwise this really does look doable. Many thanks for the input!

Thanks Rich, Glad you like it!

The river bridge baseboard could be thinner but you'd probably have to have a little fillet between that board and the top board to carry the line and a bit of scenery. (Out of interest, why does that section need to be removable?)

I didn't know about the desk and so I drew the fiddle yard using points so that construction would be quick and easy, there would be less manual fiddling and so there's a fixed loop for continuous running. I'm sure it can be rejigged as you describe.

I hope you and your family get loads of enjoyment from building and running your layout!

That's lovely looking plan there Harlequin, do you take commissions? ;-). 

 

I think the fact that you have managed to get 3 sidings in on the left will give a lot more shunting flexibility and puzzle opportunity.  I particularly like the siding running alongside the main branch line towards the viaducts, that will look nice the the buffer stop at the top of an embankment.

 

Seeing the plan in graphical form like this really helps to see that less is more.  I think Rich you have got a very nice layout plan here both scenically and operationally and I am really quite excited to see how this ends up in built form.  So very Devon esque!!

Thanks,

It came together nicely and the simple station layout is just right for modern image. If it were steam era there would be a lot more clutter around!

I find drawing layout plans a very satisfying pastime. So, yes, in principle I'm up for drawing plans for people so long as it doesn't get too burdensome.

Hi Rich,

Here's where I've got to. It balances practical modelling issues against prototypical features.

[Click to enlarge]

There are a few niggles and I've left out a lot of little details like machinery and piles of materials in the good yard. And I just realised I haven't shown a shelter on the south platform.

I'm using Xara Designer Pro but Xara "Photo and Graphic Designer" or Illustrator or Affinity Designer would also do the job. (Although Affinity doesn't have a feature to scale measurements yet AFAIK.)

Be careful when buying LED tapes - you definitely get what you pay for! Some tapes have widely spaced LEDs that give low brightness. These can be disappointingly dim and each light source can be seen if the tape is close to a wall or ceiling.

Tapes with bigger LEDs packed closer together give a better result and a good metric for comparing tapes is the "Lumens per metre" they output. You can calculate the total number of lumens and compare to your current light fitting.

I found this site to be quite informative and I bought some tape and a driver from them for my living room: https://www.instyleled.co.uk/white-led-tape/

I worked out the total number of lumens I needed to replace a couple of 3ft flourescent tubes, bought appropriately (the 20W tape) and the results are very good - about the same brightness and a good warm, even light.

Thanks Rich,

OK, I'll try to make the goods sidings longer by reducing outer platform length a bit.

The outer platform line is a compound curve going from about 1700mm (~5.5ft) radius to 915mm (3ft) radius - very generous!

BTW: There are currently only 5 points in the scenic area. Two are already large radius (purple) and the medium (brown) can probably be made large, so it's close to allowing the use of bullhead track and points - if it weren't for the pesky curved points, which are crucial in making the design work.

I just had an idea:

2018 Little Muddle Calendar

I love the photo with the Austin 7 (right?) parked in the yard - and the leaky gutter!

My Dad's first car was an Austin 7 and he used to talk fondly about it all his life. I've got some photos of it somewhere.

Hi Rich,

Are you OK with me carrying on with my drawing and posting updates here? I think the design naturally just "works" (unlike many other designs that are unhappy and compromised) and so I'd like to tidy things up and fill in the details.

If so, and if you want to steer me and maybe correct things that I've got wrong, please let me know what you think should be changed. Feel free to scrawl red pixels on the bitmap above and re-post or PM me.

Thanks,

Thanks for the comment s folks.

I should have explained the weird looking fiddle yard - it's basically 2 parallel straight cassettes of 4'6" which is long enough for a class 31 + 4 Mk1 coaches. I had the idea to have the entrance roads offset so trains can run out of the cassettes, cross over in the station the run onto the 'opposite ' cassette, without having to swap anything over.  The crossover in the middle of the fiddle yard show how there could be an alternative cassette with the dog-leg to allow continuous running of a single train.

Jaggzuk - I take what you said about play value, but our lad's actually quite cautious, doesn't like 'racing' and seems to enjoy having points, signals etc to set - so hopefully a realistically operated passing loop with sidings would keep him  + me amused! And yes, i am intending DCC, there's a TTS sound 31 in for a body swap to become a 1980s loco; if I like the chip, I'll get a couple more for my other 31s!

Phil (Harlequin) - I really like the look of that, it's definitely got elements of Eggesford. My room is 8'6" by 6'6", how big is that plan of yours?

I'd still like to keep the platform curves as large as possible, but the upper platform could probably go a bit shorter and bring the level crossing to the platform ends - as said before, the real Eggesford platform is quite short, around 3' would do. If I've got time I'll have another look at the mock-up. The only drawback is not being able to use flat boards!

Hi Rich,

My drawing is 8ft 6 by 7ft 6. So, since I got the width right and I matched both width and height with your drawing, something doesn't add up...!

However, it should be possible to shrink the design by a foot vertically without any drastic losses.

Flat boards are for wusses!   But really, it should be possible to use flat boards for all the trackwork except, conveniently, the removable section on the west. The river scene south of the station could be a separate dropped section - not true baseboard.

Edit: You could build a simple level removable section first, to get the basic layout up and running as Jaggzuk suggested, and later replace it with a dropped scenic version with the Taw running under the railway.

Hi again,

Sorry, I couldn't help it - I was thinking about your design and I had an idea that I had to draw to see if it would work...

The idea is to keep the inside of the loop clear so that you can see trains running on plain track through countryside and so that the station platforms are close to the river, like Eggesford. Then put some goods sidings further along the line on the outside to make better use of one of the corners.

The three goods sidings are mainly parallel to the main loop to keep things realistically "linear" and the outer platform line can be used as a headshunt. So traffic can run on the main inner loop while shunting carries on in the goods yard. (Good for two operators.)

Edit: The three sidings would allow the "Inglenook shunting puzzle" to be played.

I've also shown an enlarged fiddle yard with another passing loop and thee storage sidings. The passing loop and one of the sidings are both long enough to hold 4 coaches + loco.

Min radius in the scenic section: 915mm (apart from curved points).

Min radius in the fiddle yard: 610mm on the main loop and less in the inner sidings (but that could be eased if you didn't mind losing some siding length).

I guesstimated the room size.

[Click to enlarge]

Well it wasn't going to take long for me to say, lets park the Cakebox Challenge, and organise some snaps of No.8 crossing the viaduct.

 

No actual operation other than running it on oval of DC track in the dining room to check it works and it does with a good solid slow motion as well.

Lights not working as the DC conversation module switches them off but it appears to have directional front lights and controllable internal lights.......hmm can't wait for my replacement adaptor to arrive to check that out.

 

1073.jpg

 

1074.jpg

 

1075.jpg

 

Then of course I had to get a picture from my favourite location and thanks to Ken Dobettar for arranging to wait in the lane and catch it passing over.

 

1076.jpg

 

One issue that has been discussed on the Dapol topic site is that the interior/drivers cab is very bland with a large hump in middle to cover the motor, I will be weathering the outside (minimal as this would still be a relatively new train in my time period) and repainting the inside as well so hopefully I can disguise some of it.

Due to the large windows I think my Dart Castings passengers will need to be better as I have their passenger range which are lower quality - you can see everything.

Maybe there's a crafty way to disguise the motor lump: Perhaps a cheeky passenger has been to town and bought some new carpets. A promise of a pint to the guard and he's been allowed to lay them across the seats to get them home.

And of course the windows would naturally get a bit grimy...

There we go! I got it wrong. The correct measurement is closer to 15000mm, not 2000 mm as I thought (the converter, WordsworthScales, had written out the 12000mm for H0 underneath, and I neglected to see the '1' before it. 

By the way, do you have some details of Aberystwyth?

You're still about 30% out.

5280 feet equates to 21.12 metres in 4mm OO scale.

Remember OO scale is 4mm (model) to the foot (real world) and HO is 3.5mm (model) to the foot (real world) - so you can't use an HO scale converter to get accurate distances for a OO scale model.

(Have you measured the space for your layout yet?)

Hi,

I like the idea of a fictionalised part of the "Tarka line" and the curvy rural simplicity of your design.

Your fiddle yard looks a bit odd - neither of the sidings is long enough to hold a loco plus 3 or 4 coaches. So it would be difficult to put a train together while another is running or store the 4 coach train while something else is running.

I notice you suggested a traverser or cassettes for the fiddle yard earlier so maybe your last drawing just shows an indication of where the fiddle yard will be?

Have you got accurate measurements for the room?

It looks right at home!

(This forum needs a "jealous" button.)

I've updated the Peco geometry resources at the top of this thread to include part numbers for the new Code75 bullhead large radius points. (Version 9.)

There are books.  The two good ones dealing with auto trailers are "Great Western Auto Trailers" by John Lewis and published by Wild Swan.  Part 1 covers trailers built by and for the GWR prior to 1923, Part 2 those built post 1923, those converted from steam rail motors and trailers inherited from companies absorbed by the GWR at the Grouping.  John Lewis has knowledge of things GWR second to none and I can forgive him for deciding to call the shade of red adopted by BR maroon instead of crimson!

 

Chris

I'm sure they are excellent books. Part 1 is readily available but Part 2 (the one I'm more interested in) is out of print and I can't find a copy anywhere on the web. (And I'm a bit concerned about the potential cost of the book, when only some of the info would be useful to me.)

The great western archive website has a pretty good image of Diagram A 26 but not the ones I'm looking for (27, 28, 30). I wonder why more of the raw info, which must be out of copyright by now, is not on the web somewhere for everyone to use for free???

I have one more good lead to follow up, though...

I don't think DCC really reduces the wiring needed much, I'm afraid, because some sections of track still have to be isolated to prevent shorts and the lines beyond points usually need their own power feeds so that locos, sounds, lights and other devices remain powered when the points are switched away from them. (Unless you start using the new Unifrog points - but that's a whole other story.)

But DCC has all sort of other benefits so it's still worth considering and you might be able to find other ways to ease the wiring.

Don't give up on multi-level too quickly. I don't think it's the direct cause of your current issues. You have the space to do it, it can make better use of the space you have (by housing the non-scenic parts underneath a scenic part), it can be designed to be more scenically realistic and it adds more operational possibilities.

When you say, "must have operational interest" - what sort of operations do you want?

Just out of interest, is un-braced 18mm Ply from Autoprotec on Amazon ok?

Not really. As with 18mm MDF it will warp and sag without bracing.

Edit: The bracing also helps you join the boards together with a level surface - and that's essential if you are using smaller remnant pieces.

There's a reason why 99% of baseboards are constructed with bracing... Decades of experience by thousands of modellers has decided that that is usually the best solution.

Sorry, Ed, there's no escaping it if you want to do the job properly.

You could look at the big builders merchants, like Jewson or Travis Perkins, for "Premium" or "Best" Planed Squared Edged (PSE) Redwood timber. It will cost more than the standard stuff but is less likely to warp.

These guys are happy to sell to the general public - you don't have to have an account with them. Most local yards don't hold the "Premium" timber in stock so they will have to order it in but don't let that put you off - it's worth a few days delay to get the stuff that you want.

Calculate the total length you will need in metres and add between 10% and 20% to allow for wastage, mistakes, changes of mind and possibly the odd dodgy bit of timber.

Also work out the longest single length you will need and specify that as the minimum length in your order.

When you receive the timber lay it flat on a level surface indoors, supported at least every 60cm (or less for very thin timbers). Don't prop it up against a wall and don't support it at the ends only.

See: http://www.jewson.co.uk/timber/machined-softwoods/planed-square-edge-timber/premium-plus-redwood-pse/

And: http://www.jewson.co.uk/timber/machined-softwoods/planed-square-edge-timber/premium-redwood-pse/

Can I ask a really newbie kind of question?:

Where do you experts get your information from? How do you know the detailed differences between A27, A28 and A30 diagrams, and where can I find that info to look at for myself?

I've had a bit of a poke around on t'interweb and although I can see a few useful bits and pieces, nothing really definitive yet.

Thanks.

BTW: I see lots of missing "Photobucket" images above. Do you see the same problem?

Here's my SketchUp post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60091-00-minories-track-plan-wanted/page-19&do=findComment&comment=2850871

I suggest putting the battens on the outside and underneath so the inside of the box is clean and simple for modelling. That works fine if you don't mind what the outside looks like and the battens can be used as handles when it's closed.

Will you have actuators or point motors under the "baseboard"? If so you need to allow room for that - so make the box H shaped in section.

It's easier to fit panels together if you have some small battens at the joints because you can screw through ply into the batten rather than into the edge of plywood. And it's easier to fit batten exactly square and in line than to fix two bits of ply square and in line with each other.

If you use battened joints then the plywood is more about holding the box square than being structural in itself (providing "racking resistance") and in that case you could go down to 6mm for perhaps all the side and ends, leaving just the baseboard 9mm.

I started working out a similar plywood box for a OO Minories layout and posted some shots of a Sketchup model in the "Minories track plan wanted" thread. I'll link to it later (after work...)

Hi again,

Instead of drawing up to date track plans, maybe you could post "aerial" photos?

I.e. stand in the middle with the camera/phone as high as possible looking down on the baseboards, turn clockwise taking photos that overlap slightly.

We can work it out from there.

Hi,

I haven't looked back through the history of this thread but I think it would be a shame to have an imagined branch line destination rather than a real one. I think you would find operation unsatisfying. A railcar needs a platform(!) and I don't see one anywhere else on your layout, if I'm reading the plans right - er, but they don't really match up with the photos, so it's a bit confusing.

I think the basic problem is that the baseboard is just too wide on the west (and arguably on the north). I see on the photos that you have a turntable and loco stabling on the lower level in front of the branch line station which is not shown on the track plan you linked to, which I guess is why the baseboards are so wide there).

I don't know what your constraints and requirements are for the layout (if you could summarise for us latecomers that would be great).

So bearing in mind that I might be missing something: If you were starting from scratch I would suggest:

• Have a bit less baseboard area and more room in the middle. Ensure that you can reach the back everywhere without too much stretching.
• Make the trackwork fit more efficiently - a bit less empty space between siding lines.
• A simple loop on the main level (maybe twin track) with a simple lifting section across the doorway carrying just the level loop track(s).
• Start the branch line rising just to the south of the doorway and have the high-level branch line terminus on the longer north side rather than the west.
• Put your fiddle yard in front of, and partially under, the terminus - then there's no scenic conflict between the high and low levels.
• Have your goods yard on the south side.

Probably not realistic but it might give you some ideas...