Harlequin

Suggestion for basic topology:

Total size 35ft by 6ft. Continuous run, reversing loop, through station/marshalling yard, terminus, fiddle yard. Min radius ~825mm (~32in).

The removable boards are all 1220mm by 460mm (~4ft by 18in) to make more efficient use of the standard 1220*2440 sheets of ply, mdf, etc.

In reality you'd probably try to make the curves and straights in the scenic areas a bit more interesting.

Have you tried just asking them?

 

Roy

I joined their forum, intending to ask the question there, but after several days they still have not allowed my account to post. Hence I have posted here instead.

If I do get an answer from them through any other channel I will report back here.

Furthermore, here's a Dapol photo of No11 (amongst others) on the Dapol forum: https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/gwr-railcar/project-managers-blog-ae/474-oo-gwr-railcar-opening-post?p=6031#post6031

It has horns.

OK, so after a bit of reading:

This photo of No10 (built in the same batch as No11, to the same design), shows horns: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64529-Dapol-streamlined-railcar/page-6&do=findComment&comment=2304087

This drawing of the No11 model by Dapol shows horns: https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/gwr-railcar/project-managers-blog-ae/474-oo-gwr-railcar-opening-post

The horns may have been fitted later in the life of the vehicle but the same applies to the lamps, which Dapol supply as accessories (* on some variants), so I'd hope to at least get horns as optional accessories for the model of No11.

I realise that the differences between variants when they were first built, and then over their lifetimes, are quite complicated. I'd just like to know for certain what accessories should be supplied with each of the Dapol models, as retailed now.

Is there a list of what accessories should be supplied with the different versions of the Dapol GWR railcar model?

I know that some versions don't come with lamps but what about the horns?

My railcar (no. 11) does not have horns but they are shown in the line drawing on the box. I realise the box is probably common to all the variants so might not reflect the details of a particular version but the fact that they are shown on the line drawing and there are holes in the undercarriage where they would fit suggests they might be missing...

So it would be great to have a clear list, for all of the variants, that owners could check against their purchases.

How wide is the space at your estimated baseboard level?

Front runner at the moment is varnishing the staircase and adding some of these to each tread.

 

I tend to go barefoot in summer and walk around in socks the rest of the year, so these seemed a better option than the alternatives which seem to be based on sand or similar and which I felt might clog up with fluff.  I've no idea though since I have zero experience of any of these products beyond anti-slip stair treads outdoors in public places and in a few offices.

It looks like those would take a long time to stick on neatly! How about something that would do a whole tread at one go, maybe based on rubber or granulated rubber?

I searched for "anti slip treads for stairs" and some good possibilities turn up, such as these:

https://www.selfadhesive.co.uk/3m-general-purpose-safety-walk-trade-anti-slip-cleats.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAu4nRBRBKEiwANms5Wz4ixJUIiailn55CvSD9ztrDIVC7G25TpsBNjp4oowzk_NgrforoSBoCifgQAvD_BwE

http://www.seton.co.uk/anti-slip-rubber-stair-treads-self-adhesive.html#JUP182 GRY

FYI: You can get post-focus apps for SmartPhones. I can't say how good any of them are - haven't tried them properly yet.

It sounds like you need two (or more) separate scenic locations so that there's a reason to marshal traffic at one location, send it to the other and vice versa.

(A scenic location connected to a non-scenic fiddle yard alone wouldn't be satisfying because you wouldn't have to follow prototype practice in the fiddle yard. The fiddle yard's track layout would be designed to work efficiently in model terms, not prototype terms, and you can just reach in and move things by hand instead of shunting.)

So, bearing in mind your worry about overdoing it, perhaps something like this:

1. A terminus station with goods yard. The feeder branch line(s) eventually connect to a double-track circuit of the entire space at a major junction (scenic)
2. A marshalling yard alongside the mainline double-track circuit, maybe with passenger facilities (scenic)
3. A fiddle yard (non-scenic).
4. A less busy area of the layout where passenger and goods traffic simply runs on the double-track circuit through countryside, through cityscape, alongside the coast (whatever you like!). (scenic)

Those four features could perhaps be mapped onto the four areas of your loft space.

The suggested double track circuit of the entire space allows trains to run for more realistic distances between the locations, rather than departing one and almost immediately arriving at the other.

Doing it in 4mm would help achieve the sense of openness that I think you're after and I think it would also give you enough space for a reversing loop so that "up" traffic that had departed from the terminus could become "down" traffic and arrive back at the terminus.

P.S. Those two cross joists might become a major annoyance so it might be worth investigating ways to remove or replace them.

Regarding crossovers between two parallel lines:

Yes, you could wire the point motors together so that the points are either both in the normal running position or both in the crossover position.

Regarding the noise:

The old Hornby/Peco point motors are basically simple electro-magnets fed by a pulse of alternating current. It's that current that makes them buzz and their simple design also makes the points snap from one side to the other with a loud click.

There's a more modern alternative these days: DCC controlled servos, which move the point blades in a more gradual and quieter movement. Examples are Peco "PLS-100", DCC Concepts "Cobalt" point motors. I think I'm right to say that these devices usually also have built in electrical switches that allow you to power the frogs of points correctly - very useful if you'e using "Unifrog" points.

Edit: Sorry, I should have read the thread properly. Pete and 34<IsItAC?> already said most of this above!

Hi Kevin,

I made a little video of my railcar with sounds running on my dining table:

The sound recording is not great but it's the best I can do just now. It sounds much better in reality.

And why couldn't the gasworks coal be unloaded in the goods yard and carted to the gasworks as others have already noted?  The town had an adult population of less than 2,000 at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries so the gasworks would have been quite a minor concern using a relatively small quantity of coal.  In 1901 my home town had a population more than three times greater than that of Moretonhampstead with a correspondingly larger gasworks which was also about four times the distance from the railway station than the gasworks in Moretonhampstead but all its coal was carted from the station goods yard, and no doubt that happened in plenty of other places as well.

Ah, I see...

I was thinking that the gasworks was deliberately built next to the line so that coal could be unloaded directly and I thought I saw the hint of a coal stage platform on the maps. But maybe the position is just coincidence and the line on the map is something else entirely.

Fair enough.

My point was that, since the gasworks did not have it's own siding, coal wagons being unloaded would get in the way of other goods shunting activities were it not for the goods yard access from the other side of the runaround loop.

That is to say, while the goods yard access appears odd at first, and not strictly needed by good practice or Board of Trade rules, there may have been a very practical reason for doing it that way.

Then you can take the same picture and make it personal....

 

The sky now added to this picture was taken at 11.30 this morning from our back garden here in Bicester .

 

986c.png

 

As they say......

 

The sky is the limit!

Sorry to add a note of dissent but this doesn't look right to me - not as realistic as your and Andy's other photos.

Not being a compositing expert, it's hard to say why. Possibly something to do with the lighting and I think the water should be reflecting the sky to some degree?

Hi Kevin,

Did you get your railcar lights working?

I'm relieved to report that I fixed the problem I had with my railcar (decoder not plugged in correctly) and it all works fine, including the sound, which is an eye-opener (er, ear-opener)...

The sound definitely adds a new layer of realism to the model. A lot of effort has been put into the Youchoos sound "project", as they call it, and the grumbles, clunks, squeaks, whistles and parps bring the model to life. Even when it's parked up with the engine "idling", it's not dead - you have the feeling that it's waiting to spring into life once the driver stops chatting to his mates.

I thought you might be interested since you strive to get the details right and it seems to me that sound is a good extra detail (although rather expensive).

Cautionary tale: I installed a Zimo decoder and speaker from YouChoos into my railcar last week. This was a rather fiddly process and afterwards the model was dead!

I didn't panic but I did buy an Omnivisor at Warley this weekend so I could see what I was doing a bit better and with that I found the problem fairly quickly: I had plugged the decoder one pin too far to the left on the carrier board. (It's a shame that the plug/socket allow this mistake to be made at all...)

I have now plugged it in correctly and luckily, nothing has been damaged and sound, lights and drive all work fine. I can hear it idling on my track right now. (Phew!)

If there's a moderator listening, can I suggest this topic is not really relevant to "Layout & Track Design"? Perhaps it could be moved?

Something new just occurred to me about the goods yard access:

Why didn't the gasworks have it's own siding? Presumably it was supplied with coal by rail.

Looking at the old maps I notice that the gasworks might have had a loading stage along side the line between the crossover and the end of the run-around loop.

So the diamond crossing allows access to the goods yard past any wagons stood alongside the gasworks.

(And, this is pure speculation, if the diamond crossing was in fact a slip, then the passenger platform could also be accessed past any gasworks coal wagons.)

Some of my photos

Regarding Warley being a "consumer-fest":

We modellers demand that the the manufacturers make great products and they generally do (obviously).

So it should not be a surprise that, when a show/exhibition is likely to draw in many potential customers, the manufacturers and retailers do their best to sell their products to the visitors and we, in turn, eagerly purchase them.

And of course the consumerism was only a part of the show. Meeting up with old friends, seeing some great models and watching layouts being put through their paces were equal parts.

Buying products made by other people is an essential part of the hobby - that way we all benefit from the skills, resources and experience of others.

In the end what matters is whether your purchases give you harmless pleasure. (Note: "harmless"...)

That's the base, selfish reason for buying things but if you can then also deploy those purchases to give other people pleasure too, then you're making a positive contribution to the hobby and your fellow men and women.

Slightly selfish here? I never managed to get any of the real locos photographed yesterday due to the crowds. Does anyone have any they could post for me please? I believe there were 5 of them.

Thanks in advance,

 

Stewart

I just got back. Here are a few straight off my phone:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ENssgo9cLyBA9cvF2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6ZeSgDxlPHyamrpI3

https://photos.app.goo.gl/u3YsNEPkKPRNYbyi2

(People unavoidably in shot, I'm afraid.)

I've been thinking about a design for a very restricted space in my house - about 400mm by 3900mm. (On top of a built-in sideboard behind my sofa!) That might seem quite a generous width but it has to include the fiddle yard or possibly another scene that could act as a fiddle yard.

I looked at Moretonhampstead for inspiration because it's very linear and at first glance it appears to be quite simple but it was first laid out in virgin countryside in broad gauge days and so they had plenty of space available which makes it difficult to compress into a model. (see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/120942-moretonhampstead-goods-yard-access/page-2#entry2929572 )

The old broad gauge train shed, which survived until the line was finally closed, also made the track plan difficult to compress. (It has to be up the line from the loco release crossover to protect a standing carriage and that in turn pushes all the other station elements further up the line.)

So, I have arrived at this, which is showing some potential:

(Click to enlarge)

It's 2440mm wide (8ft) and so leaves 1460mm (~4ft9in) for fiddle yard.

Edit: I should have said that all points are streamline OO large radius pattern so that the trackwork can be bullhead throughout.

I fitted an MX644D with sounds and cube speaker into my railcar this morning and it is currently completely dead. I hope I'll be able to rescue it in the next few days. (Before the transplant this morning the directional lights and cab lights worked fine for me but I couldn't get the passenger lights to stay on.)

I'm quite new to this but I think you don't need to worry about aux outputs because the 21-pin socket standardises those and the Dapol motherboard then carries the appropriate signals up to the lighting subsystem.

Are the four tiny DIP switches on the light subsystem in the "on" position? Have you tried toggling F0 (all lights) on and off? Did you try toggling the direction/cab lights using other the Functions?

Regardless of prototype operation, if a product is supplied with bits that are supposed to work - you want them to work!

Quoth the Raven, "Eat my shorts!"

Thanks for everyone's insights.

The issues are:

• Compression into a reasonable length for a model (and in fact even as drawn it wouldn't fit into the space available to me).
• Compromise - how much compromise is acceptable?

By moving the goods sidings access out of the runaround loop it makes the sidings much longer than they could otherwise be and allows the layout to be a bit shorter.

Here are the critical lengths and positions:

The only way I can see to reduce the length further is to reduce the length of the goods sidings, which I really don't want to do (David!).

Note that by placing the engine house/signal box beyond the return of the runaround loop it can be pushed close to the running line (instead of close to the loop, as in the prototype) thus shaving 50mm off the width of the baseboards (assuming simple rectangles).

Rule 1 applies but I wouldn't be happy if everyone viewing the layout said, "Urgh, what have you done to Moretonhampstead?".

In a parallel universe, I can imagine a GWR permanent way engineer turning up at Moretonhampstead station and saying, "What cowboy laid that? He didn't understand the Board of Trade rules properly!" and revising the arrangement.

I completely understand the point raised that the diamond crossing is a fundamental aspect of Moretonhampstead. That's why I changed the name of the revised design and why, maybe, the idea isn't feasible at all in the compressed state I'm striving for!

Hills: Yes! One the the attractions of Moretonhamsptead is that it is/was set in very open countryside.