Harlequin

That looks pleasingly simple. You're right about compression vs. a sense of space - that's always one of the biggest challenges. Probably best not to compromise the length at this stage, I would say. (In my drawing Caterham has baseboards ~11ft long simply because it fits in the gap between two of your roof trusses but of course it doesn't have to be that long and shortening it would allow a longer fiddle yard. On the other hand 11ft would allow a leisurely scenic entry to the station.) If we could tweak it to fit on 2ft wide baseboards that would make it easier to move and easier to fit into the loft (while you can stand upright beside it!). I sometimes wonder about the accuracy of the older maps - for example, why three tracks beside the platform??? Wouldn't the escape crossover just have connected directly to the outer track? (I think it did later on.) And on the 1895/7 map of Kenley there seems to be some track parallel to the branch line, offset from the platform and not connected to it at all. BTW: The road to the south of the station with the hotel and post office facing up the high street looks ripe for a little scenic bolt-on section! (Or maybe make room for it on the Caterham boards - it would be a great visual full stop...) Coincidentally, I took some shots of the H class that was at Warley this year - they get everywhere!:

Just to set the record straight, I'm a programmer (what they call a "developer" these days) and I'm one of the team that develops the "Xara Designer" range of products - the program that I use. So you might say I've got inside knowledge of how to use the program but I'm just using pretty standard features most of the time, that anyone could pick up quite quickly in any good illustration software. And that's the reason for this thread: I think it's easy to draw track plans using normal drawing programs and, although you do have to do more work yourself, the end results are visually superior to dedicated track planning software. So I'm showing the things that I do and hoping that it might encourage other people to have a go.

How about this - just considering modular baseboards that can be joined together... The curved ends and the outer circuit are fixed, non-scenic. The curves at the ends are little bit contrived to get everything to join up but I think they could be made to work cleanly. I hope the stations will fit on the boards because it's amazing that I managed to fit all this in and in such a way that it can be rejoined in completely different permutations... I think I need to lie down for a bit! Edit: Sorry Lacathedrale, we cross-posted.

As drawn with hills, tunnels, steep grades and tight radii, it looks like a classic 009 design... IMHO, at 4mm scale, the room shape would be better suited to an L shaped layout opposite the door. Terminus to (quayside) terminus with a fiddle yard concealed somewhere. But of course that's a non-starter if the continuous run is one of your "red lines".

I have the urge to actually draw the track plan in the style of an old map! I'd like to retain the outer circuit if possible, as a mainly non-scenic fixture because I think this would make sense of the junction and allow more satisfying operation - more realistic distances and travel times. And, of course, a circuit allows you to set trains running safely without the need for computer control, while you do some shunting in a station. Then tap into that circuit with standard modules at fixed offsets that can be removed and joined together away from the circuit. Just thinking aloud - it might not be possible. Terminus module and fiddle yard module in opposition for end-to-end operation both when connected to the circuit and when connected back-to-back. Hmmm... (FYI: I've posted the last 1930s-style design, including original XAR file and a PDF version, in this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126780-layout-design-in-illustration-software/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2955931)

Here's a drawing I've done for another thread in this forum (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128727-what-process-can-i-use-to-narrow-down-my-layout-ideas/) [Click to enlarge] This drawing is a large sketch to mainly work out what will fit in the space so it's not fully resolved and since the owner may scratch-build his track does not use Streamline point templates. I created brushes for single track and double track, including trackbed, so that I could see how the trackwork would fit and to save time drawing parallel tracks. (Hence the rather odd looking junctions.) The stations are condensed representations taken from 1930s maps on old-maps.co.uk, that hopefully express the feel without being slavishly accurate. LaCathedrale10b.xar LaCathedrale10b.pdf This design is now being shelved and we're going back in time to the late 1890s and back to the original idea of more modular baseboards.

Thanks! Yes, I can see that your SE&CR ~1900 vintage locos wouldn't look very comfortable sitting in my version of Purley junction! I have been pursuing the 1930's versions of the stations - just because I was looking at them before you had settled on a period. So, just to draw a line under the 1930's version of the design, here's where I got to this evening: Added fiddle yard Gave Purley a third platform Expanded Purley goods yard Purley goods yard now has a trailing connection to the main line and long headshunt in the fiddle yard Separated slow and fast lines enough to position Purley signal box So, now back to the fin de siècle. I'll think about what you've said and look at older maps. My source for historical station plans is old-maps.co.uk but If you've got any track plans that you're looking at in particular it would be great if you could post them here or PM me. (I'm not stepping on your toes, am I?)

Here's a revised version. It's still a bit sketchy but I think it shows that the basic idea would work: [Click to enlarge - it's big!] Uses the full 7ft width by assuming board surface is just above the top of the truss cross-beams. Min radius on Caterham branch: 734mm (~29in). Pushes the tracks out to the usable edges of the loft space in non-scenic areas. Aims to evoke the feel of stations rather than exact track plans. Reduced and simplified sidings Shortened station lengths (but you still have 6ft long platforms at Purley junction - pretty impressive! Caterham branch looks like slow lines to Brighton until it diverges hidden in the tunnel Slow lines through station rejoin fast lines off-scene Abandons Kenley. Abandons the reversing loop and uses the space for Caterham station. Baseboards slimmed down over access hatch, could be liftout section. Each grid square 305*305mm (1ft*1ft) (Please don't be confused by the junctions/points where some lines appear to ride over others - that's just because of the brush I was using that combines trackbed and centre line.)

What gauge/scale? The radius of the reversing circle will be less than 2ft, close to 18in I guesstimate. The reversing circle will be difficult to access if things get stuck or derail under there. And it's probably not sensible to make the station removable to gain access. The yellow lifting section seems to be immediately beside a fixed section so it's not clear why it needs to lift. Edit: Sorry, yellow is not a lifting section. I misread the drawing.

Well, this was the idea. Please don't scrutinise too closely because it's very sketchy and I know it fails in various ways, as drawn. (Board joins in odd places, things too close together, station layouts not quite right, tight radii, etc, etc...) The thicker red lines were intended to be double track and that's where the main problem comes from - I didn't allow enough space for double track (although I always intended to use clever tricks to make best use of the space). I might still be able to rescue this idea if I could assume that the full 7ft width is available! This could be done by fixing the baseboards to the sides of the two trusses, rather than on top of them. Do you think that would be possible? I guess you couldn't resist the lure of the C-Class. (It's a close cousin of the "Dean Goods" that I'm eagerly waiting for.) I can picture it standing alongside Kenley station building - as an evocative diorama if nothing else! BTW: Have you looked at the new Peco bullhead track and points? It's getting closer to OO-SF.

Thanks. That's really useful. Unfortunately, the restricted width and shorter than expected length mean my idea probably won't work in 4mm but I'll have a think and either post it in it's failed form or post something that does work later on.

With such a large layout (potentially) is it realistic to scratch-build/kit-build everything? I'm not familiar with what's available for Proto64 but I guess that it's not so well covered as 4mm and so would be somewhat slower to build. Consider how long the build period will be before you can start to operate. You've got a good long space so I think S7 might work with a simple end-to-end design along one side - but there might not be enough headroom to allow you to stand beside a usable width of baseboard. Depends on the dimensions.

And the moral is: To produce a great model you have to be an artist, like Kevin. At the very least think like an artist. Think about the colours of things in the real world. Think about light and shade and texture. Think about materials. And think about age. Then think about the best techniques to portray those things and go for it. (Not that I'm any kind of authority because I haven't modelled anything for decades! But that's just what struck me from the exchange above. Sorry everyone, I'll fetch me coat.)

Does anyone know what make/model of DCC decoders will be supplied in the Locomotion Dean Goods "with sound"? And is there any info about the sound project that will be supplied? (I had a search around but couldn't find anything.) Edit: The Oxford website says about their model: "The Dean Goods is DCC Sound fitted and comes with a ESU LoksoundV4.0 decoder, speaker and sound chamber. Sound supplied by Coastal DCC" So can we assume this same configuration will appear in the Locomotion model?

I have an idea based on my rough drawings above that would give a reduced but recognisable (hopefully!) representation of Purley junction + goods yard track plan, double track branch through Kenley halt and double-track Caterham terminus but I don't know if it would fit. If you're interested I could try to lay it out and post here or PM you privately, if you prefer. Do you have accurate measurements of the space and maybe some photos? On the other hand, if you'd prefer, I won't push my ideas any further because it's your project. Out of interest, what do you find unsatisfactory about British RTR products?

+1 for a track plan with every layout article. Track plans provide clarity and technical details that photos and real-world maps can't. They are an art form in themselves, which are (usually) a pleasure to look at. They also allow layout designs to be compared and assessed against each other more easily. Witness the popularity of track plan books through the decades.

While I was searching the 'net for info about the GWR diesel railcars I came across this wonderful period film:

Kenley station building: (from Google StreetView) How could you resist?

I think John Betjeman wrote about ladies like Jill in his poem "Agricultural caress". ;-) https://poeticresolution.wordpress.com/2015/03/18/agricultural-caress-by-john-betjeman/

If the topic were about placement I'd agree. But it's more about how to make and install the uncouplers rather than where to place them.

It sounds wonderful! :-) I imagined the lines disappearing behind a false backscene behind the terminus, Caterham, and if you did that you wouldn't really need to commit yourself to what that line / those lines actually are. They could be the Tattenham branch or mainline or whatever you imagine when you were operating. Because you have the circuit where trains periodically disappear and can run for long durations you can imagine that having left station A in the model that it passes through or stops at imaginary stations B, C and D before you finally bring it to a halt in station E in the model. So you can leave things out - "less is more" ;-) Edit: Having done a bit more reading about the Caterham branch I realise now that you had already done some judicious editing of stations in your description! Sorry. Here's a small update to my previous drawing: I joined all the scenic sections together with a continuous backscene, hid the reversing loop behind the backscene and added some width to the terminus and junction boards. BTW: If your roof pitch is 45degrees then for every 100mm you can lower the baseboard you get 200mm extra width...!

Suggestion for basic topology: Total size 35ft by 6ft. Continuous run, reversing loop, through station/marshalling yard, terminus, fiddle yard. Min radius ~825mm (~32in). The removable boards are all 1220mm by 460mm (~4ft by 18in) to make more efficient use of the standard 1220*2440 sheets of ply, mdf, etc. In reality you'd probably try to make the curves and straights in the scenic areas a bit more interesting.

I joined their forum, intending to ask the question there, but after several days they still have not allowed my account to post. Hence I have posted here instead. If I do get an answer from them through any other channel I will report back here.

Furthermore, here's a Dapol photo of No11 (amongst others) on the Dapol forum: https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/gwr-railcar/project-managers-blog-ae/474-oo-gwr-railcar-opening-post?p=6031#post6031 It has horns.

OK, so after a bit of reading: This photo of No10 (built in the same batch as No11, to the same design), shows horns: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64529-Dapol-streamlined-railcar/page-6&do=findComment&comment=2304087 This drawing of the No11 model by Dapol shows horns: https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/gwr-railcar/project-managers-blog-ae/474-oo-gwr-railcar-opening-post The horns may have been fitted later in the life of the vehicle but the same applies to the lamps, which Dapol supply as accessories (* on some variants), so I'd hope to at least get horns as optional accessories for the model of No11. I realise that the differences between variants when they were first built, and then over their lifetimes, are quite complicated. I'd just like to know for certain what accessories should be supplied with each of the Dapol models, as retailed now.