Murican

In that case, would a Meyer or Mallet worked better as a successor to Big Berta?

Here are my ideas for what the Gresley I1 (above) and the Peppercorn I2 (below) would look like. Taken from a book screenshot I found on the LNER site. The same book apparently had the idea for an LNER 4-8-4.

Given what we've spoken about regarding the Gresley Mountains and Gresley P2s, what would have been possible names for a W2 4-6-4?

On the subject of the Lickey Incline, what if the LMS used its Garratt for use as the banker for said incline?

One of my personal pet projects is to review abandoned railroads in the United States, and speculate on what they might have been like had they survived as tourist or heritage railways. In your opinions, what are some abandoned British lines that would have made decent, if not superb, heritage railways.

Another thing. I was thinking in the world where my BR Standards exist, most if not all of these planned further examples exist: Of course I doubt there'd be as many Standard 5s as 111. However, I can definitely see said Standard 5s getting Caprotti Valve Gear.

Actually come to think of it, the wheels on my 4-8-4 are a bit larger than in the picture shown. Specifically, they use 5ft 8in diameter drivers akin to those on the Standard 4 4-6-0 and 2-6-4T.

Thought I'd give some help to everyone trying to imagine what my BR Standards look like. Since I didn't have the technology or patience to crate CADs myself, I decided to link images that inspired my ideas. The 3F 0-6-0T is basically the big-tanked version of this design shown here intially created by @Corbs. The Standard 6 4-6-0s are basically just the Standard 5 frame that's been modified to accomodate a boiler based on those of the Jubilee 4-6-0s. However, the smoke deflectiors are based on those worn by the Britannias. The 9P 4-6-4s modifies the boilers of the @Corbs take on the proposed Stanier 4-6-4 (see here for that and the Stanier 4-8-4). Then, it places said boiler on top of a modified Britannia frame and couples it up to my BR4 tender. The end result is fairly close to a 4-6-4 version of this locomotive. The Standard 8 Pacifics are rather obviously just the Duke of Gloucester. The 8MT 2-8-4 tanks are based on this idea from @Corbs. The Standard 10 4-8-4s resemble this 4-8-4 mock-up created by @Satan's Goldfish, but with the boiler of @Corbs take on the Stanier 4-8-4 and two other key differences. The tender is the eight-wheel BR4 Tender I made up. Whereas the drive wheels of my Standard 10s use the Bulleid Firth Brown design. P.S. Obviously, my take on the Stanier 4-8-4 would use the same eight-wheel tender as the one @Corbs 4-6-4.

That is a nice alternative.

Shame I don't have the kind of apps, much less patience, to do that. Although I could try to do some drawings at some point in the future.

Now, the grand finale of my original trilogy, with the first prequel trilogy discussing pre-grouping designs at length. "Each and every named engine of this class pays tribute to the very start of steam at the Ranhill Trials. Then it continues on to pay tribute to the engineers and workmen that contributed to the art of the steam engine. The many men and shops and companies that enabled the evolution of steam traction to the locomotives that honor them today." - Prime Minister Winston Churchill at the naming ceremony for 96000 Ranhill. "When you consider that the UK has become an exporter of excursion steam engines to the Continent, it really begs the question: Did we save TOO much steam engines? I think the answer to that can be analyzed only by looking at the Standard 10s." - Chris Eden-Green's Gauge The Issue Video "Did We Save Too Much?"; July 23, 2017 Standard 10 Class 4-8-4s Power: 10F Built: 1955 - 1960 Numbers: 96000 - 96104 (105 Locomotives Total) As the Modernization Plan ended up in constant delays thanks to Churchill’s coalition, Robert Riddles took the opportunity to create what he thought would be the ultimate British mainline steam engine. To create said engine, Riddles took the Stanier 10MT’s original design, then fused it with elements of the lone BR Standard Class 8 Pacific “Duke of Gloucester”. This locomotive started off as a 10MT on a Standard-style frame, but then incorporated principles used in France by Andre Chapelon’s SNCF steamers, as well as the GPCS and Twin Lempor exhaust systems created by Argentine Livio Dante Porta. Riddles also used the thermic syphons from the Southern’s Bulleid Mountains, and the Bullied Firth Brown pattern and roller bearings were also used for wheels to reduce weight. When introduced, the locomotives were instant hits on BR’s freight duties, and even occasionally providing express passenger duties. In addition to said success, these locomotives enabled the retirement of many of the Stanier 8Fs and other classes of 2-8-0s outside the Western Region, which were worn out by wartime by this point. However, the other standards and a select few 0-6-0s continued to serve alongside the Standard 10s on smaller freights. Further helping these locomotives be the last BR Standards in regular service was that they were perfect for BR’s new fleet of fast, long-distance container trains; which were the logical conclusion of the container trains the original Stanier 10MTs were built for. Although 9F 2-10-0s and 8MT tanks served on shorter wagon freights, the Standard 10s were the pride of said container trains. They were also tried out on coal trains along the Dover Main Line and on the Somerset and Dorset Joint Line, again with success. A natural consequence of this was that when the Modernization Plan finally entered into law in 1960, the Standard 10s were among the last locomotives slated for withdrawal. Working alongside their Stanier counterparts, as well as Builleid and LNER Mountains and ten-coupled engines like the 9Fs until 1970 when they were the only ones left. As a result of this infamous longevity, ten of the bunch were preserved. A whopping total of 72 locomotives in the class also got names that were meant to embrace and celebrate the history of British steam railways. The majority of said namesakes being key locomotive works, and locomotive designers. Those names being: 96000: Ranhill 96001: Gateshead 96002: C.J. Bowen-Cooke 96003: Henry Fowler 96004: Brighton - Cosmetic Restoration, Owned by Bluebell Railway 96005: G. J. Churchward 96006: Neilson 96007: R.E.L. Maunsell 96010: Crewe - Stored at LNWR Heritage Crewe 96011: Ashford 96013: Patrick Stirling - On Display at NRM Shildon 96014: George Hughes 96015: Stoke 96016: O.V.S. Bulleid 96017: Beyer Peacock - Under Restoration, Owned by Locomotive Services Limited 96020: John Aspinall 96021: Cowlairs 96023: Stratford 96024: H. A. Ivatt 96025: William Stroudley - Cosmetic Restoration for Display at Buckinghamshire Railway Centre 96026: Armstrong Whitworth 96027: J. H. Beattie 96030: St. Margaret's 96031: Dübs 96032: Longhedge 96033: Bury, Curtis And Kennedy 96036: William Adams 96039: Derby - On Display at Didcot, Owned by Icons of Steam 96041: John G. Robinson 96042: Edge Hill 96045: Dugald Drummond 96046: R. A. Riddles 96050: Hudswell Clarke 96052: Doncaster - Operational, Owned by North Yorkshire Moors Railway 96053: St. Rollox 96054: F.W. Webb 96057: Wolverhampton 96064: H.G. Ivatt 96065: Sharp Stewart 96066: Samuel Johnson 96069: Charles Fairburn 96073: Darlington 96075: Swindon - On Display at Didcot, Owned by Icons of Steam 96077: James Manson 96082: Wolverton 96083: Edward Bury 96084: Frederick Hawksworth 96085: Shildon 96088: Joseph Armstrong 96091: North British 96092: William Stroudley 96095: Horwich - Stored, Owned by GCR Heritage Comapny in Loughborough 96098: Nine Elms 96099: Gorton 96100: James Stirling 96101: Robert Urie 96102: H. A. Ivatt 96103: Eastleigh 96104: Stalwart - Operational, Owned by National Collection

Either way though, I'm starting to think the National Museum of Transportation in Kirkwood (a suburb of St. Louis for those who didn't know) would be a better home for 74000 Uncle Sam. Yeah, the IRM of the Boyd-verse is also improved. Though seeing as the main subject is British engines, here's some itinerary on that: Alternate History.com detail of my alternate IRM Perhaps a Pershing boiler on a Pacific frame might work a slight bit better? As long as we're talking war engines, I was thinking of having some S200s join S160s in freight traffic mainly on the Southern Region. In such as case, I'd have numbered the S200s as the 94000 and S160s as the 95000.

OR, if I keep 74000 Uncle Sam displayed in the Chicago area, I instead could put it in the Museum of Science and Industry.

To be fair, I did envision it as a display piece only. I went to the IRM two summers ago, and I'd say they do a pretty good job of maintaning their display pieces as best they can. At least until a complete cosmetic restoration is affordable. My first idea was to put Uncle Sam in the NRM at Green Bay, but the A4 Dwight D. Eisenhower was already there. Likewise, I had a fictional rail museum in Jersey City, but I already had the idea to put one of my Bulleid Merchant Navy Mountains there. Perhaps a better location could be the National Museum of Transport near St. Louis.

The last of my planned BR Standard classes will have to wait due to the sheer number I decided to name. In the meantime, here's some more managable content. Again, Bold means a preserved engine. And most ideas here are derived from ideas I one saw on DeviantArt. Standard 8 Class 4-6-2s Power: 8P Built: 1951 - 1954 Numbers: 71000 - 71020 (21 Locomotives Total) After Riddles managed to overhaul Duke of Glosteceur into a legitimately good engine, the decision was made to build several more of the design for use on express duties. Mainly in order to enable the further retirement of non-standard types on The West Coast Main Line, and also freeing up the 9P 4-6-4s to work on other parts of the BR system. 71000: Duke of Gloucester 71001: Euston 71002: St. Pancras 71003: Paddington 71004: Cannon Street 71005: Blackfriars 71006: Waterloo 71007: Victoria 71008: Bristol Temple Meads 71009: Fenchurch Street 71010: London Bridge 71011: Marylebone 71012: Liverpool Street 71013: Charing Cross 71014: King's Cross 71015: Glasgow Central 71016: Waverly 71017: Queen Street 71018: Liverpool Central 71019: Lime Street 71020: South Parkway 8MT Class 2-8-4Ts Power: 8MT Built: 1952 - 1954 Numbers: 85000 - 85114 (115 Locomotives Total) Due to the prevalence of the LMS 8Fs, USATC S160s, and similar engines, the 2-8-0 tender engine was never represented in the BR Standard range. However, Riddles still found that a 2-8-4T using the same boiler as a hypothetical 8F was perfect for heavy short-distance runs and secondary services. Using the same boiler as the Standard 5, Riddles set to work. Sixteen 8MT tanks were originally built in 1952 at Swindon for use on former GWR territory in South Wales. They proved to be excellent successors to the eight-coupled GWR tanks of yore, and another 99 members of the 8MT tank class were built between 1952 and 1954 for use on other parts of the BR network. Being mainly freight locomotives, these locomotives saw especially frequent service on the Great Central Main Line from London to Manchester. In many cases they displaced the 8K Class 2-8-0s that had called the GCR home since the pre-grouping days. Additionally, 85012 was permanently assigned to the Lickey Incline when the famous "Big Berta" 0-10-0 was set aside for preservation. She even gained similar headlamps to her predecessors on both her front and back; making her vaguely resemble an engine from Australia. Today, twelve of the class are still in existence. The most famous of these preserved engines, 85067 Paul McCartney, went to the Bluebell Railway and was painted into a livery based on the LBSC Stroudley Yellow and green in addition to its new name. This modification set a precedent for future preserved engines, and later another seven of the ten survivors were named after modern British musicians, with nine of them painted into different special paint schemes. The named survivors are as follows: 85001: Pete Townshend - Under Restoration at Didcot Heritage Centre; Painted in GWR Brunswick Green. 85023: Freddie Mercury - Under Overhaul at Keleigh & Worth Valley; Painted in BR Corporate Blue with Yellow running boards. 85039: Mick Jagger - Pending Restoration at Mid-Hants; Painted in BR Black. 85042: Eric Clapton - Operational at the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway; Painted in LNER Apple Green. 85067: Paul McCartney - Owned by Bluebell Railway; Painted in Stroudley Yellow. 85077: Ozzy Ozbourne - Under Restoration at North Norfolk; Painted in LNER Garter Blue. 85089: Yusaf Islam - Under Overhaul at East Lancashire Railway; Painted in SECR Holly Green 85094: Peter Gabriel - Owned by Somerst & Dorset Heritage Line; Painted in Midland Crimson. 85114: Elton John - Owned by Bo’ness and Kinneil; Painted in NBR Bronze Green. Lastly, three un-named 8MTs have been preserved. Those being 85016, 85072, and 85102. All three are still painted in the classic BR Black like 85039, and are on display at the NRM Shildon (85016), Crewe Heritage Center (85072), and Bressingham Steam & Gardens (85102). The 85102 even kept the headlamps from her days on the Lickey Incline.

For the numbers of certain BR Standards, I chose to just use whichever numbers were not close to being used. Hence, the 74000 for the Standard 6s and 79000 for standard 9Ps. As well as the 81000 number series for tank engines. My next two standards will use the 85000 and 96000 series.

The 3F in this case is a side tank 0-6-0T. There are no changes to the 3MT and 2MT in my ideas. Admitedly the 4-6-4 idea does stem from real-life proposals from Stanier.

Thanks for this.

Further thoughts on my (hopeful) definitive six-coupled standards?

Something like it was proposed before the 08 made it pointless. Though of course things going a bit better for steam in the Boyd-verse enabled Riddles to build a small number of them.

First off are the six-coupled Standards that exist in my universe, including what's hopefully my definitie list of the 9P 4-6-4s. With the eight and ten-coupled ones coming in a bit. Bold denotes a preserved member of the class. Italics denote a planned, but unbuilt class member. Standard 3F Class 0-6-0T Power: 3F Built: 1950 - 1951 Numbers: 81000 - 81015 (16 Total Locomotives) This was a Standard engine that unfortunately came at a time where it was least needed. Intended as a shunter locomotive, the 3Fs, had they seen their full potential, would replace such iconic 0-6-0Ts as the LMS Jintys, Southern USA Dock Tanks, and GWR Panniers. An initial batch of 16 were built at Crewe in 1950 and 1951. These engines mainly derived their appearances from Unfortunately, the Class 08 diesel shunter was introduced in 1952. As a result of the 08’s success, BR decided that shunters would be the first steam engines to go, and production of the 3Fs ceased. However, all of the 16 3Fs managed to soldier one for some time on various colliery and industrial routes. Today one, 81013, works on the North Norfolk Railway, while another two, 81001 and 81009 are on display. Standard 6 Class 4-6-0 Power: 6P5F Built: 1951 - 1954 Numbers: 74000 - 74024 (25 Total Locomotives) The last of the three Standard 4-6-0s to be constructed, the 6MT was meant to haul slightly heavier and faster trains than the 5MTs - passenger expresses in particular. The 6MTs were derived from the LMS Jubilee’s boiler placed on a Standard 5MT frame. These locomotives were mainly intended to succeed 4-6-0s like the GWR Castles, LNER B12s and B17s, and various Southern designs on express passenger duties. The idea to name the locomotives after American railroads was inspired by President Harry S. Truman’s 1951 visit to the UK alongside Churchill. These locomotives were destinct from other BR Standards due to their large, slanted smoke deflectors, which was where their nameplates usually were. As built the first ten members also had Franklin B Rotary Cam poppet valves, and the ones that maintained the poppet valves throughout their lives are denoted with an asterisk. Sadly the finicky nature of poppet valves, combined with the 5MTs already being satisfactory, meant that only 20 of the 6Ps were built. This despite an order for another 10 being made at Crewe. Unlike their 4-6-2 counterparts from the Scottish Region however, a few of the Standard 6 4-6-0s managed to be preserved. 74000: Uncle Sam - On display at the National Museum of Transportation in Kirkwood, Missouri 74001: Pennsylvania* 74002: Union Pacific 74003: Great Northern Railway* - Word “Railway” used to avoid confusion with the LNER A1. 74004: Chesapeake & Ohio 74005: New Haven* - On Display at NRM York, only survivor with poppet valves. 74006: Atlantic Coast Line* 74007: Rio Grande 74008: New York Central - Owned by National Collection, On Display at NRM Shildon 74009: Milwaukee Road* 74010: Santa Fe - Operational, Owned by the Somerset & Dorest Heritage Railway in Highbridge 74011: Baltimore & Ohio 74012: Northern Pacific 74013: Southern Railroad - Word “Railroad” used to distinguish from UK’s Southern. 74014: Illinois Central - Owned by Locomotive Services Limited, Under Restoration 74015: Boston & Maine 74016: Burlington Route 74017: Southern Pacific - Owned by Midland Railway - Butterley, In Storage 74018: Louisville & Nashville 74019: Wabash 74020: Lackawanna 74021: Florida East Coast 74022: Norfolk & Western 74023: Rock Island 74024: Western Pacific 74025: Reading 74026: Missouri Pacific 74027: Delaware & Hudson 74028: Erie 74029: Seaboard Air Line 74030: Colorado & Southern 74031: Chicago NorthWestern 74032: Central of Georgia 74033: Kansas City Southern 74034: Lehigh Valley 9P Class 4-6-4 Power: 9P8F Built: 1957 - 1960 Numbers: 79000 - 79042 (43 Locomotives Total) When Stanier introduced his 9P “Admiral” 4-6-4s and 10MT “Empire” 4-8-4s for the LMS’ long-distance passenger and goods trains, the UK railway scene was truly blown away. That said, the pre-existing Princess Coronation class of Pacifics meant the Admirals were not as numerous as the 10MT, and only 15 "Admirals" were built compared to 35 “Empires”. Nonetheless, the Admirals were good enough to convince Robert Riddles to try and experiment with another 4-6-4 design for use on the entire BR network. Primarily being meant to replace the LNER Gresley/Peppercorn designs and Southern's Belleid designs on the fastest express trains, though in many cases the classes they were meant to replaced soldiered on in other duties until all the remaining non-standard steamers were retired in 1969. Initially the plan was to name the engines after various American railroads, but they instead opted to name the engines after various authors. In some cases, Standard 7 Britannia Pacifics were renamed to accommodate these engines. 79000: William Shakespeare - Preserved on display at NRM York. 79001: Geoferry Chaucer 79002: Frances Hodgson Burnett 79003: Arthur Conan Doyle 79004: H. G. Wells 79005: Mark Twain - The only 9P whose namesake was American. 79006: Charlotte Brontë 79007: George Eliot 79008: Bram Stoker - Pulled the last passenger train on the GCR Main Line. Preserved at GCR Heritage in Loughborough. 79009: Mary Shelley 79010: Rudyard Kipling 79011: John Milton 79012: Kenneth Grahame 79013: Robert Louis Stevenson 79014: Jane Austen - Owned by Locomotive Services Limited, Operational 79015: H. Rider Haggard 79016: Alfred Tennyson 79017: George Gissing 79018: Anthony Hope 79019: Lewis Caroll 79020: Joseph Conrad 79021: William Wordsworth 79022: Robert Burns 79023: Mary Elizabeth Braddon 79024: Charles Perrault 79025: Thomas Hardy 79025: Percy Bysshe Shelley 79026: Beatrix Potter - On Display at the Crewe Heritage Centre. 79027: Lord Byron 79028: T. S. Eliot - The first 9Ps whose namesakes was still alive at the time of construction. 79029: William Blake 79030: Hans Christian Anderson - The only 9P whose namesake was Danish. 79031: Evelyn Waugh 79032: Samuel Butler 79033: The Brothers Grimm - The only 9P whose namesakes were German. 79034: C. S. Lewis 79035: Jules Verne 79036: E. M. Forster 79037: Agatha Christie 79038: Wilfred Owen 79039: James M. Barrie 79040: Ian Fleming 79041: Wilbert Awdry 79042: A. A. Milne 79043: Francis Bacon 79044: J. R. R. Tolkein - Last Express Passenger locomotive built in the UK; Operational with West Coast Railways.

Decided to ggive my ideas so far for which BR Standards I should still create for the Boyd-verse. Part of this includes another DeciantArt inspired idea where Chruchill is still PM from 1955 - 1959, and gives the order to continue BR's Standards program until enough satisfactory diesels can be created. Further helping is negotiation with trade unions in coal areas. As a result of these factors steam soldiers one just a few years more until the mid to late 70s. Before I start though, he's a new tender for my universe: The BR4 Created as a way to reduce the need for fuel and water stops for larger engines. These tenders took the body of the classic BR1 tender, but then extended it to fit on the chassis of the four-axle WD Austerity tenders. That said, the tender chassis was modified to fit in more with the pre-existing BR tender design. The design of the tender was inspired by those used on the LMS Stanier 9P and 10MT engines from the 1930s and 1940s. Which is fitting seeing as the Standard 9P and 10 engines were built as successors to them. These tenders were used mainly on the 9P 4-6-4s and the Standard 10 4-8-4s when they were introduced. However, they eventually also saw use on the last Standard 5 and 9F 2-10-0s to be built.

Thing is, I recall seeing a list of ordered BR Standards that were never built. Not just for the Standard 6, but other engines. Know though I can't remember where I saw said list.

Good advice. Although I question whether that many 9Fs would indeed be build. Even if my universe has the Modernization Plan delayed until 1960.

Does anyone know how many of the additional BR Standards were ordered, but never built? As in, how many more 5MTs and 9Fs were ordered? I'm asking for research on more of my imaginary locomotives. Despite the artistic liberties I've taken to enable their existence, I like to keep the numbering schemes somewhat realistic.