Murican

1 hour ago, JimC said:

One option might be to look up what classes each would replace, and start there. For example if you counted up all the 8 coupled freight engines in service around 1948 and round up to the next thousand then that ought to give an absolute maximum for 9Fs.

Thing is, I recall seeing a list of ordered BR Standards that were never built. Not just for the Standard 6, but other engines.

Know though I can't remember where I saw said list.

51 minutes ago, JimC said:

One option might be to look up what classes each would replace, and start there. For example if you counted up all the 8 coupled freight engines in service around 1948 and round up to the next thousand then that ought to give an absolute maximum for 9Fs.

Good advice. Although I question whether that many 9Fs would indeed be build. Even if my universe has the Modernization Plan delayed until 1960.

Does anyone know how many of the additional BR Standards were ordered, but never built? As in, how many more 5MTs and 9Fs were ordered?

I'm asking for research on more of my imaginary locomotives. Despite the artistic liberties I've taken to enable their existence, I like to keep the numbering schemes somewhat realistic.

18 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

 

…along with all the others (incl. Narrow Gauge), of course.

 

So far for now, my idea is to have for the LNER: six P2 Mikados, six W2 4-6-4s, and eight I1 Mountains.

Does that sound reasonable? That is if we have Peppercorn immediately follow Gresley and create an I2 Mountain instead?

6 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

Indeed. The Americans had great success in the last days of steam with large, fast 2-8-4 and 4-8-4 types, using very heavy rail, a much larger loading gauge, cast steel locomotive beds replacing frames and mechanical stoking, operating very large trains over long distances. I don't believe that such designs would have been viable in U.K. and some of the technology (particularly the cast chassis) simply wasn't available. The late-1930s 4-6-2 types were the ultimate development of Stephenson type steam locomotives designed for Britain's basically Victorian railway system, and the BR Standards didn't really have anything to add, apart from discarding inside cylinders, compounding and designs with more than two cylinders. 

To be fair, these engines are mostly just our imaginations at work,

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Stratford Bill, Barnyard Kipper, and Billy Daffodils are already taken by Britannia pacifics.

I addressed that earlier with some alternate names for the Britannia Pacifics.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14790-imaginary-locomotives/page/325/&tab=comments#comment-4505842

They can be either railroads still in existence (Union Pacific, CSX, etc), or Fallen Flags (Santa Fe, Pennsylvania Railroad, etc).

Part of it is admittedly for research for some ideas I've had regarding Imaginary Locomotives.

UPDATE: Going off the point about the author names and renaming Britannias, I decided to also expand the humber of my 9P 4-6-4s. That, and I also took it upon myself to shuffle the names around a bit.

Once again, bold denotes a preserved example.

91200: William Shakespeare

91201: Geoferry Chaucer

91202: Frances Hodgson Burnett

91203: Arthur Conan Doyle

91204: H. G. Wells

91205: Mark Twain - The only 9P whose namesake was not British.

91206: Charlotte Brontë

91207: George Eliot

91208: Bram Stoker

91209: Mary Shelley

91210: Rudyard Kipling

91211: John Milton

91212: Kenneth Grahame

91213: Robert Louis Stevenson

91214: Jane Austen

91215: H. Rider Haggard

91216: Alfred Tennyson

91217: George Gissing

91218: Anthony Hope

91219: Lewis Caroll

91220: Joseph Conrad

91221: William Wordsworth

91222: Robert Burns

91223: Mary Elizabeth Braddon

91224: Samuel Butler

91225: Thomas Hardy

91225: Percy Bysshe Shelley

91226: Beatrix Potter

91227: Lord Byron

91228: T. S. Eliot - The only 9P whose namesake was still alive at the time of its building.

91229: William Blake

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Did you intend to duplicate Britannia Class names?

 

CJI.

I'm afraid I didn't.

That said, I suppose we could handwave that by giving the conflicting Standard 7s new names. Plus maybe give the other author names to more 9Ps so we can have some fun with alternate Britannia names:

70002: Queen Victoria

70004: Benjamin Disraeli

70005: Richard Trevithick

70006: Charles Darwin

70030: James Cook

70031: Thomas Becket

70032: Athelstan

70033: David Lloyd George

70034: William the Conqueror

70035: Walter Raleigh

I decided to revise my Standard 9P 4-6-4s to be named after British authors instead. The fictional history being that when the decision was made, some of the "American Railroad" nameplates has already been created, so said nameplates went to several Standard Class 5 4-6-0s instead.

91200: William Shakespeare

91201: Joseph Conrad

91202: Frances Hodgson Burnett

91203: Arthur Conan Doyle

91204: H. G. Wells

91205: Mary Elizabeth Braddon

91206: Charlotte Brontë

91207: George Eliot

91208: Bram Stoker

91209: Mary Shelley

91210: Rudyard Kipling

91211: William Wordsworth

91212: Kenneth Grahame

91213: Robert Louis Stevenson

91214: Jane Austen

91215: H. Rider Haggard

91216: Samuel Butler

91217: George Gissing

91218: Anthony Hope

91219: Lewis Caroll

8 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

None preserved, new build completed in what looks suspiciously like EWS colors named 'Wisconsin Central' 71215?

BTW, with my additional locomotives, this 'Wisconsin Central' new-build would be numbered 91220.

3 minutes ago, Mr Jorrox said:

Baltics.

My bad. My Americanism slips again.

Although, my BR Standard 4-6-4s later on in the Boyd-verse do have a connection to the Hudson name - being named after American railroads.

3 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

None preserved, new build completed in what looks suspiciously like EWS colors named 'Wisconsin Central' 71215?

Admittedly I did have the idea of preserving at least two of them. Sicne the Boyd-verse preserves more steam around the world in general. Although that definitely would not be that bad an idea for a new-build, since I'm thinking the Standard 9Ps that survive would all be stuffed and mounted.

Here's a new idea I had based on something I saw on DeviantArt.

After Stanier has success with his "Admiral" 9P 4-6-4s in the 1930s, BR builds their own class of Hudsons that essentially are Stanier 9Ps with typical BR Standard characteristics.

What makes the class unique is being named after various American railroads, an idea presented to Riddles derived from the "Hudson" name used for most 4-6-4 engines. These names, like the ones on the 6MT and 7 Pacifics, are on plaques on the smoke deflectors.

91200: United States Railroads

91201: New Haven

91202: Pennsylvania

91203: Southern

91204: Union Pacific

91205: Atlantic Coast Line

91206: Illinois Central

91207: Santa Fe

91208: New York Central

91209: Baltimore & Ohio

91210: Milwaukee Road

91211: Rio Grande

91212: Chesapeake & Ohio

91213: Southern Pacific

91214: Great Northern

91215: Boston & Maine

91216: Louisville & Nashville

91217: Erie Railroad

91218: Burlington Route

91219: Western Pacific

So I've been thinking. Does anyone know what numbers the LMS "Admiral" 4-6-4s or the 4-8-4s would have had they actually been built?

1 minute ago, scots region said:

 

I wonder where Sodor would be if Awdry had been born an American. 

If you ask me off the coast of Florida or Washington would have been good choices.

20 hours ago, Zomboid said:

I always though that Sodor was way too small to justify anything as big as a Gordon. The main line being basically from Barrow in Furness to the Isle of Man, which is what, 30 miles? It wouldn't need anything with a tender for that kind of thing...

 

Edit - ok, it's about 50 miles, but still not far enough to justify tender locos. A nice fleet of big tank engines would be just the job.

Yeah that's why if I were to recreate the Railway Series, I'd have located Sodor off the coast of Blackpool. It allows Sodor enough room to be the kind of big island that justifies a railway network that large.

Here are my ideas for the BR Classification of the various big steamers I've discussed so far:

GWR Cathedral Class 4-8-0: 9P
Southern "Merchant Navy" Class 4-8-2: 9P8F
LNER Gresley I1 Class 4-8-2: 10P9F
LNER Peppercorn I2 Class 4-8-2: 9P8F
LMS 10MT "Conqueror" Class 4-8-4: 9P10F

Just a thought with all my LNER superpower steam ideas: if there are only six each of the P2s and I1s, how many of the W2 4-6-4s could we see? Could they possibly replace the A4s of real life as the the A3's successor?

I also thought of the GCR 2-10-2 being built first by Baldwin (the prototype), then by Baldwin in collaboration with Beyer Peacock. First it's called the 10H, then the S2 under LNER rule.

Almost forgot to mention that my reality would also see the construction of thirty Standard 2F shunters.

Now for some tidbits regarding my pre-existing ideas and how they'd interact with locomotives that were actually built.

- In the early LNER days, Gresley decides to built 15 of the Robinson J11 engines in 1924 at Darlington for use in Scotland. As a result, only 20 of the later J38s are built.

- Maunsell is allowed to build his S16 4-8-0 for use on heavy mineral traffic. This means not additional S15 4-6-0s, and a wider retirement of the N Class engines.

- The introduction of the P2 2-8-2 and I1 4-8-2 in 1937 leads to the replacement of twelve of the A1s and A3s on express passenger trains. As a result, many are instead sent to work on the former Great Central. Even more Pacifics end up on the GCR after Peppercorn succeeds Gresley in 1941, and builds his I2 4-8-2s.

- Due to the number of already existing Pacifics, Stanier only builds fifteen of his 9P "Admiral" 4-6-4 designs. All survive into BR days, and naturally a few are preserved.

- Stanier's creation of 10MT 4-8-4 initially does not affect the 8Fs. However, the LMS ultimately sells off more 8Fs than real life due to the surplus that the twenty-strong 10MT class created. Additionally, Stanier also considers building more 4-8-0s are his rebuild of the Lemon 9F 4-8-0.

- Peppercorn taking over from Gresley in 1941 means that the Peppercorn A1 rebuilds arrive earlier. However, the Peppercorn A2s are now the Peppercorn I2s.

- Due to the success of Colliet's "Cathedral" 4-8-0s, the GWR board allowed Hawksworth to design his County Class as another 4-8-0 class. Also in this reality, the 4-8-0 is known as the "Norfolk" in tribute to the Norfolk & Western in America. 

- Peppercorn's proposed 4-8-4 is built for the LNER in 1946 as the M3 Class (formerly used by the retired 0-6-4Ts). However, the LNER board orders runs two because they're partial to the six I1 class and 4-8-2s.

- Bulleid's Merchant Navy Class being 4-8-2s is gone through thanks to a longer disagreement with the Southern's board.

- Thanks to Riddles studying the Gresley V4s, the BR Standard 4MTs are 2-6-2s instead of 4-6-0s, and are especially common on fast goods trains, like the container trains that become more common across the world earlier than real life. (my own US railroad ideas have container trains by 1951).

- Twelve Caprotti/Crosti BR 5MTs are built, but are not replicated.

2 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Odd to see an LNER engine with a Belpaire boiler

Not counting GER or GCR engines, that is.

Another lner.info picture I say showed a model of the Peppercorn 4-8-2 plan that'd resemble Cock o' The North. I'd personally make my idea for the Peppercorn Mountains (The I2) use that as well, or go for the look of the Pacifics he did in real life.