Hull Paragon

Mark I had a chat with Dave recently about bits that are missing or not clear. He sounded quite philosophical as he explained that the instructions are a bigger nightmare than the kit. No matter how hard you try, something gets missed. I have had no serious problems so far but the area that has caused me the most concern is the missing ribs on the tender coal space. I now know (courtesy of the posts above) which pieces they are but I now have to fit them with the tender fully assembled and a coat of primer on it. Clearly they should have been fitted before the tender skin was put on. I hope there is nothing missing from the sections on the motion as I have never built Walschaerts gear before! With regard to the smokebox wrapper, I sent the boiler and wrapper (I think) back to MOK for them to roll as I don't have any rollers and nickel silver is not as easy to roll as brass. I have started the loco and will post some bits and pieces later. Ray

I have seen some useful archive maps of Hull on the Old Maps website oldmaps.co.uk......maybe if you search for Dairycoates on the site you might find an archive rail map. They are small but comprehesive..... Ray

Just a few notes on the tender build before I move on. The instructions have quite a few errors. There is nothing that should catch an experienced builder out but sometimes you need to work things out before proceeding. There is nothing relating to the tender bunker strengthening ribs, nor is there anything on glazing. The fret does contain the ribs (see the posts above) and there are some frames included for the cab windows......just without guidance. Keep an eye out for one small part of the etch that is for the loco. It is clearly marked but quite small so don't throw it away! The ribs and glazing can wait for now.......so borrowing a line from Basil Fawlty, the hard work is done........now comes the difficult bit! Ray

Mark Please butt in whenever you like! Funnily enough I was looking at the oddbits and pieces left on the fret and I looked at the parts you have highlighted wondering what they were for and concluding (wrongly as it turns out) that they must have been associated with the tablet mechanism. Thanks very much for the information. I'll fit them so that the model is finished off properly as it is clear that even with coal in the bunker, the ribs are quite prominent. Ray

Rob Good luck when you get round to starting the kit....you will be impressed. I'll persevere with the pictures as I would like everyone to get the best out of the thread so thanks for the tip. Ray

Aided quite a lot by the design of the kit Dave! It's a work of art......... The internal slots have been left as you quite rightly say. The instructions don't mention them, there doesn't appear to be any ribs on the tender fret and so far, apart from low angle coal filled tenders, I have yet to see the inside of a tender let alone an empty one. Oddly enough, the ACME Class 4 kit does show them. If I find any, I'll fit them so I can I did it,but in the end, the coal will cover the slots. Ray Ray.

Graham That's very complimentary and I thank you. I hope the loco turns out as well. Ray

I've explained this earlier....not sure why you can't see full size pictures as I do. Ray

I'm not sure what you mean Jeff, but I have increased the photo size and as of today, the pixel count. When I look at an image on the thread it looks fine. If I use the 'Save As' function and save it to the desktop, I get a picture that I can blow up to fit my screen without pixellation. I'm not sure why this isn't working for some viewers but I'm not sure what else I can do. Ray

Well, for once I did as I said I would and finished the roof assembly by fitting it to the main body. I didn't want to solder it on the inside as it's difficult to clean up so I did it from the outside. I decided to fit the rain strip last as it broke free the last time I tried to solder the roof on due to the poor fit and the need to put some pressure on to press fit the edges! This time was much easier. I fitted the final bits (except two) and of course the very last one, a lamp iron, bent over as I soldered it and I had to remove it. This was much harder than it should have been. For some reason the solder wouln't melt and things got a bit heated. (Me as well!) However it did come off and I cleaned it up and refitted it. I then gave it a wash and somehow I managed to break a set of steps off. I refixed it but the bottom step fell out as I did it.....at last though the time came when I could say 'It's finished!'. The bits I left off are a set of doors to fit inside the coal space. I'm not quite sure of their exact position so I'll ask Dave at Reading next month. (I'll be picking up the boiler which I sent to him for rolling). The other piece is a fine strip of rivets. Again I am not quite sure what to do with it. The instructions say it is 'optional'. I would use it but the shape follows the rain strip and my photo archive are a bit short on overhead views and those I have don't show any rivets there.....however, there are some on the vertical piece behindd the roof which are not supplied. So, after a coat of primer....... This is the first 7mm tender I have built to completion (as soon as I fill the hand rail knob holes that I have just realised I've forgotten) and I am absolutely thrilled with it. Apart from a few pauses for thought where I actually did some modelling, and as much as I'd like to claim that the final finish is all down to me, it is clear that the real success is the design of the kit. How they have managed to work out all the tab positions and etch out all the relevant slots in the exact positions is beyond me. I have really enjoyed this kit so far and I am looking forward to starting on the chassis. Ray

Dave Many thanks for your comments. Ray

Dave Many thanks for your comments. Ray

I changed the vertical handrails after looking at them and thinking that they just didn't look/feel right. I must measure the diameter of a handrail and the gap between the handrail and the side when I am next on the MHR. I finally attacked the cab roof. There are only four pieces but they took a full morning to sort out. The small extension sits under the main roof with a vertical section. The vertical section is pre-shaped and has four tabs which locate into the extension. That's easy enough! You can see the tabs on the right side piece. The vertical section is soldered onto the underside of the main roof but there is no guide to locate it. I chose to solder a small piece of N/S under the roof as a guide and solder the section to that first. The whole thing has to be centered properly which is slightly more difficut to judge as the roof curves down but after some jiggling around, I managed to get it done. I tend to use low melt solder in places where there is detail like rivets in close proximity as it is easier to remove with a steel brush....where a file wouldn't be suitable.....the assembly above still needs a little bit of tidying up. Finally, a rain strip needs to be attached to the top of the roof. It sits just by the edge alongside a slightly raised portion. The best way to do it is to tack it at the flat center area, and then mould it to shape and solder it as you go along. The location line on the rooftop is shown here. Here is the completed strip bent to shape. The astute may ask why it is separate from the main assembly........as I tried to get everything soldered to the tender, I noticed a slight misalignment and in trying to unsolder the sub-assembly I managed to end up back at square one with the three pieces. I had to start again which is why it took all morning!! I intend to solder the roof on tomorrow and I'll refix the rain strip then. At least this time it is already bent to shape and will be so much easier to solder Ray

Dave This is a picture of one of my posts on my laptop....you will see that it fills the screen from top to bottom. It's perfectly clear on my screen. Maybe there is a difference of setting or something but apart from the last half dozen pictures or so I haven't changed anything since I started the thread. This picture has been saved at the same rate as before (which I will change in a moment) but the main thing is the size of the picture on screen. I appreciate that the limit is 32Mb. My unedited pictures are about 5Mb. However, they take an age to upload at that size which is why I reduce them in file size. Anyway after this, I will increase them.....let me know when they reach a reasonable size for you. Ray

Thanks Tony

Dave The photos shouldn't be too small. I have tried to hit a balance between size of image and size of file.....I will increase them a bit and hope this helps you. Ray Graham Thanks for your encouragement. Ray Thanks Park

Almost done. The handrails on the top are done, the steps are fitted as is the ladder....all taking too much time but I only have the roof, vacuum pipes and lamp irons to do now .......here are a couple of pictures.....the steps look better in the photographs. They seem really clunky on the model so I hope a coat of paint will change that. Strangely the rear handrail looks worse on the photo.....the gap between the rear and the top of the body needs looking at. It always seems to me that a model looks significantly better when the handrails and buffers are fitted....... There are no comments of late so I might end the thread after I post the finished tender pictures. But many thanks for all the 'likes' etc. Much appreciated! Ray

I have been adding brass bits and pieces to the tender. Nothing special in terms of fitting, just cutting the castings, cleaning up and fitting. I'll post a picture at some time showing the buffing gear (which I epoxied on) and the rear lifting lugs and plates as well as the dome and filler. I also did the buffers which are straightforward. They are fully enclosed and use a tiny plate inside the buffer to enclose a slot into which a pin fits. The pin holds the buffer with the spring inserted and nothing protrudes from the back of the housing. I must ask David if they are compatible with the Britannias as I need some for a Scorpio kit that is awaiting in the background. Is it just me or do 2 minute jobs always take all day? I have been making the steps up. What a palaver! For some reason I just couldn't fit the steps in the supports with enough control to set the step depth properly and then solder up. I will not embarrass myself by telling all how long the four took me..........but at one point I thought about going back to sea for a couple of years......... Here are all the components It takes time to fold everything up and make sure that all is square. Eventually it begins to come together. The lower parts fold up to form the supports for the steps. The lower step is simply placed at the bottom and gripped tight before soldering. Moving up the picture, the next image is the middle step part soldered. The tabs are bent inside the supports and form a location guide for the step. It is essential to bend these tiny tabs absolutely square. If you are careless the step will not be parallel to the bottom step....as I discovered. After soldering, the tabs are broken off....so don't solder them to the step! The top image is the whole thing assembled. I thought that while I was still alive I would build the ladder. This is simplified by the inclusion of a fold up jig which allows the builder to line everything up perfectly before soldering. I left the ladder in the jig to clean it up just to provide some rigidity. This didn't take long so it was a good decision to keep going. I'll fit everything on Friday when I do the handrails on the tender top. They should be easy enough...............that should conclude the tender build. I now have a spare ladder jig for sale. The jig is ready to run and has been tested thoroughly in my workshop. It's yours for only £554 (which is slightly less than the MOK kit), plus postage. (Well, you never know!). Ray

I haven't done the steps....yet. I had a sudden realisation which resulted in a change of plan. The MOK kit is modelled on 43106, the preserved 4MT on the SVR. The handrail on the side of the cab on this loco follows the step profile. That is, the handrail drops down, curves under the footplate and is located under the curve of the step. My prototype is different. The step has been converted to the curved type but the handrail is on the face of the tender front. Of course I realised this after the tender has been assembled so I had to drill new holes centrally in quite a tight location.....just 2mm wide. I decided to ustilise a trick I have used before to good effect when I did a Britannia tender side and that was to take a short strip of nickel silver 2mm wide, drill a small hole centrally in it and measure down to the next hole which is similarly drilled. It is a bit of a leap to call it a jig but in essence that is what it is. Snip/file one end to set the height of the lower hole. (I have to admit that I guessed the locations of the holes from photographs....they look OK so hopefully they are not far out. Hold this in place over the metal and drill through. The holes are in the right places and there is no movement of the drill on the shiny metal...and there is no need to centre pop a guide which could bend or distort the metal. Use a reamer to enlarge the holes to accept the handrail knobs. Then solder the first knob and fit both knobs in the holes. Solder the second knob and remove the assembly to clean it up. I glued the assembly into place. All that remains is to fill the hole in the side sheet that is no longer used. I then spent some time tweaking and fiddling to fit the final bits to the body.....here is the result so far. Ray

Time passes and it seems as though weeks have gone by and not much progress has been made. But some progress is better than none! I have spent my time tidying up and adding fittings to the tender body. I am forever washing/brushing flux residue off at present too. Oh....and one of the retaining nuts on the chassis fell off. Sod's Law made sure it was not easily accessible so that took a while to sort out. Most of the tender work is easy stuff really but sometimes just setting things up properly takes a while and although I am not going to be ultra perfect, I don't want too many obvious things looking wrong. The tender vents and brackets are fitted along with footplate standards and operating handles. I've also added ramps inside the coal space and handrails to the rear. I've set them 1mm off the sides but I can't make my mind up if that is too much. It looks too much but 1mm scale is only 13/4 inches or so real size so it should be near enough. The doorway plates were not simple to bend and locate. Each time the curve at the bottom is altered, the vertical element that fits in the floor moves so the forming has to be done in 2 dimensions to get it right. The instructions call for pre worked copper rod to be fitted for beading. I don't know why but I just couldn't get the solder to stick one metal to the other (nickel silver) so in the end I cheated by soldering 0.7mm brass rod on the edges instead. I don't think too many people will notice! The photo looks worse than it is in the flesh. There is not as much 'roundness' spilling over as it appears below. The photos don't seem to be as crisp as normal so apologies for that....I'll redo them before i write about the next steps......which by coincidence, will be.....the steps! Ray

I attacked the tender skin next. It is all in one piece and the instructions tell us that any bending must be EXACT! I usually work to the nearest dockyard so I had to tread carefully. The outer skin has all the rivet detail: The inner has the half etched guidelines for the bends. It would have been easy to bend the sides in a set of bending bars but if you look closely, the half etched line doesn't go all the way from side to side. I could have created a strip of metal or wood to hold it firm but instead I took the end bolt out of my bending bars and set the skin up in a vice. This worked perfectly although it was awkward to set up properly. There is a gauge which is used to get the angles right. It is simply held against the bended metal and run from end to end.....if there is no light the angle is OK. The picture shows the gauge but not at the right angle. After a relatively short time, the tender body is formed. After testing it fairly regularly during the process, it fits easily onto the tender framework. One minor issue was that I solderd in the water gauge and then found that the locker assembly wouldn't fit properly on the tabs. I had to take it out, fix the tabs and replace it. This is the before view. The weekend is nigh and I won't get anything done......I fitted the scoop, scoop link and all the brakes and rodding this morning.....not without difficulty as setting the rod lengths is not simple (not for me anyway). However, I used a 12BA bolt with a nut inside the frames to secure the brakes and this allowed some back to front movement to help set everything up without binding the wheels......So after all that, I had a quick look at it all with the chassis and frames temporarily attached. It's looking like a tender now! Ray

Thanks Mark I have noticed this as I have read/looked at the instructions from end to end. But still no appendix! Ray

The instructions refer now and then to an 'Appendix' which should show things like handrail bending details.....but there isn't one. Perhaps I should ask Dave? Ray

I have finished off the tender coalface. Nothing special about this. The components for the coalface were put together: Note that I have bent the straps up.....these have two functions...one is to form the alignment for the locker doors. Then once the overlay is in place the locking bars are bent to shape and soldered in place. The straps then fold up over the locking bars. Everything fitted beautifully but I didn't do quite so well with the hinges.....they are visible in the picture above and the small ones are tiny They sit on pads on the locker overlay.....the instructions say glue or solder. I always solder if I can but an iron is of no use here. So I got my old Resistance Soldering Unit out and with a small bit of solder paint, set everything up. The problem for me was that the RSU probe was quite big in relation to the hinge and I had a few problems getting them to stay aligned....I almost succeeded! Finally a quick test fit with the tender body to make sure nothing has moved. I'm hoping to get the tender skin folded and fitted tomorrow. I will also investigate the tender glazing about which there is nothing in the instructions. There are some window frames in the etchings but no reference in the text. Perhaps I will use them as templates for clear plastic and then glue them in place......should have thought of this before though..........

Hello I'm not sure if you will see this post as the original is quite old and you may have abandoned it by now. If I am right, I probably knew Mrs Webb too. The Alliance Avenue school was Riley Technical High School and there were 2 shops that were used by the boys....the other was Mrs Walker whose shop was on the corner of Spring Bank West. A shilling dinner money bought a sandwich (usually filled with crisps) a drink and a Park Drive tipped! Both shops had books for the pupils to buy stuff on tick....if a teacher came in veryone 'hid' their cigarettes behind their backs......those certainly were the days. In th emeantime, freight trundled across the embankment nearby with regularity and the only loco I remember well was 61010 Wildebeeste........no photos though....and the school has since been demolished! Ray