Ouroborus

5 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

The panto on mine is as floppy as a floppy thing in floppy world.  I haven’t tried to modify it or force it in any way, it’s how it was out of the box, in fact it is still in the box only out for decoder fitting, photographs and running in.

 

Thankfully it runs lovely, no melted body no derailments….but then it’s not coupled to anything.

 

Had I have to judge the APT on just the NDM I have I would have said it’s a great model but has a crappy pantograph which brings the model down.

Hornby will sell you some of their NDM medication for this.  Take one Mepanzafloppin twice daily.

Read the posts and count them up.  That'll give you the number of forum members who've said they had this problem

Thanks for info.

Oorail has mentioned similar regards the chip inhibiting the body roll and thus throwing the bogie off.  Glad its all good now.

7 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

It would be worth a letter or post being written by one of those who’s had the failure to their Facebook or a mag like BRM or RM asking for an official response from Hornby based on the evidence seen here. The advantage of that is that it puts the issue in print for anyone having issues later. It would require compiling those failure posts as evidence if asked to support it by Hornby. 
That was my concern so I’d rather risk the motor dying in years to come from commutator wear than it blowing a hole in the body five years later with no spare shells so I removed the caps. Motors are much easier to replace than a bodyshell in later years. 

To : technicalservices.uk@Hornby.com

Hi

Last month I took delivery of an APT bought from one of your retailer network.

The shop kindly fitted it with Hornby decoders.

The NDM persistently derailed at a point and after three circuits, it stopped altogether with a bad smell.

I took it back to the shop who replaced the decoder and it worked again, albeit still derails.  I had purchased an additional NDM (in case one wasn’t enough umph) and swapping this into the consist did result in fewer derailments, but it was still a problem.  Can’t say I’m happy about this.

Of more concern is the burnout.  On forums, this seems far from an isolated case, with a number reporting the same issue.  The motor suppressor/capacitor in the NDM is pointed at as an issue.

See here: (page 98 is where the first report of a motor fail.  The following pages record other members having similar issues)

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/150509-Hornby-apt-2020-tooling/page/98/

Could you advise me on how to resolve the derailing which I hope would be a simple DIY fix for me, but more worryingly, what steps need to be taken to prevent a future motor burnout with  the associated damage that one customer has reported  (page 115,the melted roof).  A melted toy train is one thing, the fire risk is something else.

Kind regards,

1 hour ago, ChuffChuff said:

I feel really sorry for Hornby about this model

It was a good idea but like the prototype has been plagued with difficulties. It has been a prolonged wait but the model still 'hasn't arrived'

 

I had to send back my 7 car set because of constant derailments of the power car (nothing else I run has any problems), pantograph falling apart all the time, that's on top of the quality control issues, the suppressor and the visible capacitor.

 

Its an interesting thing that some of us find the power car derails (and its always the power car) and others don't.  I remember the Hornby tv program showing a set flying across small radius points with ease.  Quite possibly it may be down to track laying with an intolerance of anything less than perfection.   The supressor/capacitor is more of a concern - inconsistent batch quality or os there a design issue?   Feels a bit like roulette waiting to see if each circuit of your APT may be its last

13 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Decided to give the APT a run tonight with my daughter.

 

Nothing heavy, a 10 car set. Perfectly fine for my layout. Barely 10 loops later, suddenly the train slowed and all the carriage lights dimmed.

A short I thought, cut power, but it was too late, smoke rose from the NDM, It was dead!

 

And the heat made a nice hole in it's roof! £700+ of dead train less than a week after receiving it...

 

 

Very sorry to read about this.  Seems something drew a lot of juice before it blew 

The hole in the body, clearly something below it got very hot.  I'm mindful yours is going back so you wouldn't want to take it apart, but what do you think sits directly beneath the hole?

*Edit - i think Paul answered this above

2 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

significant charges made towards the social, health and welfare insurance costs for their employees.  Therefore they have to charge more just to stay in business. 

 

 

Granted you didn't define "significant", but the UK rates of national insurance, both employer and employee are far from insignificant and more than the German healthcare levels.   Hardly surprising given the UK healthcare system is based on a free for all whereas the German system relies on a private insurance top-up.  

15 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 

To what extent has Rails taking up retail sales of the Fell contributed to the "shedloads" and actually making the project viable?  Personally,  I would never buy on the pay now plan from any manufacturer,  whether he be established or a crowd funded kind.  I would though pre-order on  a deposit (even if a little more expensive) from a retailer who has been around a few years.

 

The "emperors new clothes" syndrone that followed Dave to his demise seems to be alive and kicking.

Your money, your choice.   

I wouldn't rely on a deposit for securing your order, however.  And of course paying early may mean you pay less, as purchasers of other suppliers have found.

My LMS sorted out my NDM and its now running again.  When coupled up, it persistently derails on a point.  It did this before.  I set up a slow motion video that seemed to show the coaches were hitting one another.  I notice there is a similar video above.  I recalled that in the box there were some spare couplings.  When i got them out, i see that there are three different sizes.  No mention of this in the instruction manual.

I replaced the coupling in the NDM with one of the longer ones and no more derailing.

Part of me feels a bit thick for not spotting this, but to be fair, you only notice they're different sizes when placed side be side.  And a few lines of text would not have gone amiss

4 minutes ago, Wolf27 said:

In other news I will be collecting my overpriced and poorly made set later today. Then I will post multiple updates across all social media platforms expressing my dissatisfaction with a high cost low quality product. I will ensure the capacitors and pantograph are mentioned. 

While you're collecting yours, can you take mine back, only I've had to book an afternoon off work to do it?

22 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

B

How many motor failures have we seen reported here? I’ve seen two?  A couple of driveshafts loose and two, including the YouTube video, with the bogie spigot snapped off. 
Bachmann’s 90 had numerous issues with the bogie pivot breaking reported here and when I bought mine at a show I asked Cheltenham Models if I could check it. They happily unboxed it and one bogie was broken and hanging loose, the second was fine which I bought. So so far it’s had less issues, albeit three different ones than the Bachmann 90 reports on here!
The Heljan 009 MW first batch was basically derided as binnable here yet with a minor tweak both mine avoided self destruction and still run well with a few more mods on top. 
All of the big manufacturers have had issues with batches with far more problems, some were decoration, some mechanical. Anyone who’s owned a Bachmann geared steamer in On30 or HO has been extremely lucky if it hasn’t had a gear split. I returned two Dapol Terriers and one B4 because of serious mechanical defects, the difference being Rails couldn’t have been more efficient and helpful in replacing within days. 

 

Poor b2b tolerance is sadly probably a quality control issue as you say, but it might be the design tolerance for the interference fit is out making the wheel looser than usual as observed above. 

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this, but the Bachmann 90 had one common recurring fault.  The APT seems to have several, some serious, some less so.   It's much less common for users to report multiple faults with a model.   It points more to a problem with Hornby rather than specifically this model.  Mine's dud and after blowing £600 it leaves as bad a taste as the smell the motor made.  

I think the coupling hook/NEM pocket is going to be the problem rather than the buffers

and the cynic in me thinks new prices too. 

£600 worth of APT is going back to shop this week thanks to a blown motor.  I'd be more hopeful about the HST, but my faith in Hornby has been going downhill.  The blue pullman was a bit of a treat for me - wondering if its worth it or whether it'll be another problem child

Mines just died. (7 car)  Continues to derail, didn't make four circuits before the motor or chip seems to have gone pop.  Familiar smell coming from it.  Really not happy with it.  I think this one is going back

4 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

I have an original, boxed, almost perfect Hornby APT from 1980s. Is it worth upgrading? My main reservation is that I always feel like the APT needs large layout to do it justice.

With a small bit of work, a modern NDM will fit it.  It won't however, match it.  So you'd have a six car set which the NDM should just about be able to pull around.

Had mine running tonight.  Can't say I'm happy with it. 

The NDMs are forever derailing and throwing themselves off the track.  It happens over pointwork.   They don't half feel 'clunky' as well.  On the upside, motor works fine and no sqeeking

I'll check the track again but i don't have this problem with anything else.

Collected mine from Derails earlier.  Waiting for my wife to go out before unboxing

Interesting that the pictures above show the white banding misaligned and different sizes.  This could be something Hornby gets right 

Still there on a search of Hornby site. (using Chrome)

11 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

has SK passed his use by date?

Sniff him and find out

4 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Details are post free on orders over £20

 

I know, the saving I was on about was for them.  If I drive over to collect, *they* can save the postage

Pondered cancelling my APT order in the face of another price hike from Hornby.  Today received an email from Derails saying they weren't passing on the increase.  Good for them.   I'm keeping my order as a result but I'll drive over and collect so they can save a few bob on the postage.  Must park more carefully.....

Well done Dan, you read the market well.

8 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I suspect a few years ago, @Ouroborus would ghave answered "DJM".

21 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

So what do you all want?

 

The devil's advocate gives you these choices...

 

• The factory loses money due to their increased costs since the project was started with staffing issues, power interruptions etc?
• The 'manufacturer' loses money due to their increased costs since the project started due to increased production costs, shipping costs, capital costs and distribution delayed?
• The customer 'loses' money since the announcement due to these increased costs through originally unforseen circumstances?

 

There are no winners, the customer can do without if he wants and redirect the money towards paying his increased food and energy bills this year. Those higher up the supply chain don't have easy get out choices like that.

 

Expect increases all around over the next 12 months+, I am hearing of significant cost revisions from the east against contracts already in place and even tooling being moved from one factory to another to try and mitigate against this.

 

Or you could just wait until they're produced next time when they're even higher in price.

 

 

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