hicksan

Unfortunately that's television for you. Once they've decided on the story they want to tell; the show gets edited to tell that story, regardless of what really happened. They think the viewing public want spectacle; under-dogs overcoming insurmountable odds to triumph rather than a team calmly and professionally making something impressive that works first time, so they go with gimmicks and they're probably right. You built a great layout and people will come to exhibitions specifically to see it working, and they will be wowed by it, and you will have done the whole hobby a service by participating. Enjoy the next year. And write it up for the magazines.

Blame Phil. I was working from the note in his blog: "What an amazing galleon lying on its side in a realistic sea by Thunderbolts captain Andy", and I knew there were two Andy's, both listed first in the team credits (obviously: surnames alphabetically. Duh!). I thought you all did very well but Kevin was an inspiration as well, for sheer guts and determination.

I have no problem with animations, and I don't think of them as gimmicks. Animations in general from signals to cranes to cars to workshop static engines are great; the more the merrier, I think. By gimmicks I rather mean the need for a volcano on a suburban UK layout, to give but one generic example, or the need to include gratuitous dinosaurs and ufos. As part of the GMRC show these are fine, I think, so my only issue comes when so many teams start to rely on such devices that they become compulsory and otherwise good layouts end up getting dismissed as "not adventurous enough".

Sorry Kevin.

Same for Missenden Modellers last year. Of course it was us that got trashed at the end, not the layout (it's doing fine at exhibitions, still attracting crowds), but we had a great time participating, just as we had hoped, and got to build a lovely layout on camera. I think the show needs a dose of serious layouts, even if they don't win, just to show people what's possible and inspire them in the hobby, just as much as it needs entries by plucky teams of complete beginners to give it a go.

I disagreed with the judges on this one. I can see why the WCR team won but I would have given it to the Three Millers. I thought the submerged track was spectacular and that the scenics and build quality in general were superb - all very crisp detail and no bald patches or visible rough edges. Yes the layout could have been a bit more ambitious but they were sticking to a prototype and I respect that. The corrugation machine compared to stay-alive capacitors? No contest! Personally I found the WCR layout to be a bit too full of gimmicks and too much of a toy train set, by comparison. Nice detail in places but their build quality honestly was not as good as that of the Three Millers, trackwork and electronics notwithstanding. Nothing against gimmicks and animations in general but I don't like the thought of serious modellers being penalised for being just that and focussing on quality and prototype. I enjoyed this episode but was left feeling a bit uncomfortable at the end, for the first time with this series. The result is becoming too formulaic, I feel. The criteria for a winning layout are too predictable. Quality trackwork, lots of trains running simultaneously and reliably, as wacky theme interpretation as possible with doses of humour, a single spectacular over-the-top animation, dense scenic detail packed in as much as possible, large dose of fantasy storyline,... Too much of this, after a while, will tend to close things down rather than open up new horizons for the hobby. Steve's comment about the ski jump was priceless. I would have liked to see a train try to go up that, rather than down. That said: the inclusivity of this series - in terms of the diversity of people in front of the camera, who might normally be overlooked by popular television - is wonderful and inspiring, and not just this episode either. I was very moved hearing Andy from the Thunderbolts talk of his determination to overcome people's prejudice in underestimating him. That was a good moment. And the model ship was lovely.

How come all L&WMRS layouts? All lovely layouts, and great to see glimpses of 'proper' modelling on TV, but how did this come about? Someone from the production company live locally? Big improvement on the 'joke' models from last year anyway.

I see the point of the 10x5 layout as a size that more people are familiar with as 'household' layout - a train set on a board with some scenic - so I get why the series starts with that. They want people to go away thinking "That looks fun. I could do that". It is a challenge to see what people are capable of under pressure of constraint and outside their comfort zone (hence also the hated SB challenge), and it makes participation more accessible to less experienced amateur teams on a more equal footing, and more scope for humour and light-heartedness. It would be nice if, in some of the episodes, the layout challenge were something smaller - perhaps a shunting puzzle, micro-layout or terminus-FY size. As well as bringing some variation to the rather monotonous theme this would give scope for higher quality modelling, given the same team size within the same time frame, and therefore widen the challenge. I think this would work well as a semi-final stage and allow the better modellers a chance to show their metal.

It was nice, also, briefly to see the layouts 'Kimble' (7mm, L&WMRS) and 'Clarendon' (4mm S4, also L&WMRS) flash past during the breaks. They should have a separate competition to "name that layout".

Really good episode this week. Railmen of Kent were the obvious winners - three circuits of track, loads of trains running and the wagon hoist that worked faultlessly meant that perfect 10 for functionality was well deserved. The quality of their trackwork was clear on day 1, so that was a bit obvious - a key thing to look out for in every episode: the teams that don't get track right, at the outset, don't win. The buildings were really nice and well made too. Quality only let down by that wiring block in the station that cost them 2 points. The whole layout looked really crisp and I look forward to seeing it at exhibitions. The other two layouts were both great and each might have won against different opposition. Neither had anything like as much operational interest as Brittannia Park though and each had minor reliability issues. I agreed with Kathy's comment about the forced perspective - the contrast between the high definition of the viaduct and the undetailed skyline in front of it was too starkly in the wrong order. The crocheted trees were fun but never going to win even though the ladies brought a breath of fresh air to the programme. All three teams were clearly enjoying themselves, having a great time, and that's what matter most to the viewing public and the image of the hobby. Well done all round. Best episode so far this series.

Having experienced the judges at their absolute harshest, as part of the controversial Missenden team last year, I can say in all seriousness that Kathy and Steve, as well as the presenters James and Tim, are really nice, lovely people. They bent over backwards to try to find a way round our misunderstanding but at the end of the day it wasn't possible so we just built the layout for the fun of it. All the rest was theatre to make an appealing story. The nice thing about the show, and it doesn't really come across in the broadcast version, is how well everyone got on at Fawley and how different teams helped each other and even the film crew stepped in on occasion to help some of the teams. It didn't feel like a competition; more like three teams each racing the clock. This new series looks much tighter and better organised with clearer rules and better scoring system, which is all good. It seems a bit more gimmicky but they have obviously done their research into what the viewing public want. And the baseboards look way better - last years were so heavy you need a crane to lift them. It will be interesting to see the viewing figures and whether we have another hit. I hope so. I enjoyed it.

Was this what you had in mind?

The vertical forced perspective may have played a role. That was very clever. Also the evocative use of glass fibre as clouds. Worthy winners, I thought, not just for being different.

Well done Aberdeen. Worthy winners. Well done Kathy and Steve. Excellent judges. Well done Tim and James. All round good blokes. Even the dreadful puns added to the overall fun. Well done to Bryher for directing and Pat for coming up with the idea and pushing it through. It works, and the hobby is the winner.

Before going there - let's consider the idea and take it to its conclusion. The production company would have to pay much higher insurance premiums and have extra chaperones on set and everyone present would have to be legally background checked and power-tools might have to be banned but otherwise it could work and would be attractive viewing. I entirely agree with you there. I am not so worried about what happens when things go right; more if things go wrong. It is the worst case we have to think about and prepare for. Let's suppose Missenden team had a teenage member, like your young friend. It nearly included my 14yo daughter, had that not been forbidden by the production company. There is no question that we weren't open to the idea or saw ourselves exclusively as a team of "professionals" even if we were (wrongly) billed as such by the presenters. Could either of them have coped with the sort of models we were building? Absolutely. When we planned our layout we did so specifically with 14 year olds in mind; to demonstrate concepts and techniques that they easily could copy for themselves. Our whole agenda was to target a 12-14 yo audience that had got bored with their Harry Potter train sets and taken the Hornby track-mat layout to its limits and were now thinking perhaps computer games might be more exciting, and to show them something different and inspirational and worthwhile beyond rearranging electrons in a box - where they might learn useful skills this country needs and increasingly aren't being taught in schools any more - like CAD, CNC, laser cutting and 3D printing. I had a number of conversations with Steve Flint on set about precisely that, which is why we are following up with a series of 'how to' articles in the railway modelling journals. Similarly Kathy spent the better part of a morning being filmed with Kiwi and me as we put the 3D back-scene together, because it would be so easy for a beginner modeller to replicate. Pity so little of that footage made it through. So could my daughter have made a back-scene like that? She helped prepare the real thing. Could she have put three motors into a Dapol crane and made it work? Doddle. Could she convert a Scalescenes 1950s freighter into a 1920s 'three island' collier with working derricks and lights? Probably yes. Same answers for your friend, I have no doubt. Would either or both of them have been welcome members of the team? Undoubtedly. How might a teenager cope with the pressure. Having been on the show I can say that it is like being in a pressure cooker for three days, after having run the marathon of late nights of preparatory work over the previous month, just to be ready in time (we weren't). Then you have three days under hot lights with cameras watching your every move and the stress of regular interviews and how to cope with Tim's teasing and James's puns. It really is relentless. Tempers get frayed, and that's just the judges :-). Even the show as broadcast couldn't really hide that. Some teams hardly know each other and arguments become inevitable as plans have to be curtailed to beat the clock. And not all team captains remain as supportive and protective as Barry was for us. Where I think most 17year olds can cope with that, for at least some 14 year olds it would be too much. With the benefit of hindsight, I wouldn't put any child of mine through that now, regardless of how good a modeller they are. But what then, if things go wrong - as they did for us? That is my real concern. We didn't set out to cheat but got caught on the wrong side of the rules. It could happen to any team that tried to be too ambitious. We could just as easily have run out of time and it all gone pear shaped that way. It nearly did. We still had "manky roads, unpainted plastic cobbles and bare plywood with screws showing", and we weren't trying to mock anyone and had worked our butts off for three days to get there. Would the judges have been so critical in their comments had there been a 14yo team member? They are both really lovely people so I think definitely not. Would that have been fair? No. Would Missenden have been disqualified with a 14yo member, or just had a few points knocked off, as was suggested to us would happen? Probably the latter. Would that have been fair? No. Might Missenden have gone on to win, taking into account our interpretation of the theme, number of trains running simultaneously and working automations, 3D back-scene and forced perspective? Quite possibly. Barry certainly thought so, after being told (incorrectly, it transpires) we were not going to be disqualified despite having volunteered ourselves for that on camera. Would us winning under those circumstances have been fair? Absolutely not. And then there is the aftermath, even had the judges been fair and everything gone as it did; how might a 14yo cope with all of that? The social media storm started while the programme was still on air. For a while there was a 20 second video clip of me explaining 3D forced perspective modelling trending under the heading "embrace your inner geek". It is socially acceptable to ridicule people who are geeky and autistic, as I freely admit to being, and it certainly felt like 1.3 million people didn't hesitate to do so. I'm a grown up and fine with it but how might an autistic 14 yo have coped with that response? That was one of the nicer things people were saying about us. Plenty of others were not so nice. What would be said in the playground? How would they feel if instead of "your Dad is a ... cheat" it was "you are a ... cheat". What if your 14yo friend went to his local club and the grandees of the club called him out, in front of other members, and told him he had disgraced the hobby and brought shame on them, and teased him about it thereafter. It happened. How might he feel about his membership then? Even on forums such as this, that are generally supportive, there are folk who persist in assuming the worst and throwing barbed digs at every opportunity. How would a 14yo feel if, whenever someone disagreed with something they said, the words "Missenden" and "arrogant" keep getting thrown back at them? ​I understand the largest cause of death among teenagers is suicide. I know that among people with autism, of all ages, the suicide risk is ten times higher than that of other people. Autistic teenage boys are a particularly vulnerable group, as well as commonly being attracted to railway modelling. One of the nice things about railway modelling is how welcoming and accepting it is to such people, I can say from experience. When we auction Ealing Road it will probably be in aid of an autism charity, in recognition of that fact. I believe it to be true that some particularly vulnerable people have killed themselves for less than the above. So my concern about having kids on this show has nothing to do with their skills as modellers but everything to do with how the show would be pitched around them (dumbed down and softened), to safeguard them, and how they might cope with what they might be subjected to - in the worst case - were it to remain as it is. I wouldn't put any 14yo through that. I do not think of that as patronising or arrogant, so am sorry if it comes across as such.

Or have a rule, as part of the revised prebuild rules, that every team has to bring at least one pre-built item that is entirely scratch-built, incorporating no more than 50% of any given kit or bashed model (ie not simply a modified version of a purchased model). The floating dredger from the Waterworld episode would be a great example of this. A further rule, building on this theme, might be that each team has to present something (either built on set or prebuilt) that has been weathered to look as real as possible, with prototype photographs as reference. Points for these two items might be awarded, like the scratch-build challenge. These might lead to interesting conversations with the presenters and judges as to how they were done, of the type the show could use more of.

Interest in the Missenden Railway Modelling Courses up x10.

Or you could encourage people to use self-printed download card kits from Scalescenes and similar producers, as we did at very low cost. Of course that would have mean changes to the prebuild rule because they take ten times longer to make, perhaps to allow such kits to be prepared up to the level of Metcalfe kits but not assembled, so as to represent comparable on set construction tasks.

They couldn't do any worse than we did!

Fair point. No offense intended. It is great if young people are coming into the hobby and we should do all we can to encourage them, as I was encouraged at that age and try to do likewise now. As I said: I did try to involve my own kids in the programme, who are equally competent modellers and were disappointed to be excluded. My concern is an all adults team vs an all kids team might seem a tad one-sided, simply because of the gap in experience and accumulated knowledge. It might be seen as an unfair contest, which would make judging difficult to be fair to both teams. Perhaps an episode exclusively for younger teams?

Overheated 1980's controllers. The wiring is fine. Thanks for the advice though. When I have a few thou spare I will probably invest in switching everything across.

That would be nice. I hope you are right. I encountered a lot of scepticism, from several clubs, when trying to gather a team first time round. There was a lot of concern that it would be 'bake off with trains' and just trivialise the hobby by making any kind of serious model impossible - the baseboard dimensions published early were a bit of a giveaway. I lost count of the number of people who said they wouldn't be seen dead on the show, that it would make a laughing stock of the hobby, and most of them still hold that view (those that are willing to talk to me in civil terms since our episode was broadcast). Missenden tried to build something serious - what we hoped people might find inspirational and attainable - but it required loads of compromises and we still ended up on the wrong side of the rules, running out of time, edited into pantomime villains, labelled as cheats in the national press and trolled by half the country it sometimes seems. People even commented on the fact we were wearing Missenden shirts as evidence of ruthless megalomania! However enjoyable the show was to us and to its audience; people see that side of it too, all too clearly. The consequences of getting it wrong are pretty awful. I personally would be up for a return, because it was fun, but am struggling to find much enthusiasm from others.

I have two controllers on independent circuits with independent wiring to every baseboard so any track section can be switched across locally with a DPDT - but then I'm dc and it's all cheapo old stuff and regularly overheats. Not sure how this would be done if/when dcc.

Sorry if I got that wrong. The rules must have been changed by that point then. The rules changed a lot so no surprise there. I asked about bringing my daughters, early on, and was told definitely "no under 18s" for the reasons given - just checked the email. I get the impression they struggled a bit to get the full quota of 15 teams. It will be interesting to see if there is more interest for next year or less.

I agree about not having children. It would make it a completely different programme, and greatly limit the scope of what could be achieved - pitching it as a train set programme rather than about model railways. How would one fairly judge a team of mostly children against one of mostly adults? The Railway Children team put up a really valiant effort and obviously had a great time but struggled due to inexperience - it was a relief to see theirs working at the end - and they were adults albeit young. A guest celebrity as third judge, perhaps to offer a casting vote or something - without too much focus on them - I don't have a problem with that and can see how it might enhance the image of the hobby. It needn't take more than a minute of screen time and we could do with fewer filler shots of Fawley, lovely though that is. Do a separate programme about Fawley (I would watch that) but would prefer GMRC to focus more on the layouts. BTW has anyone noticed that the track plans of the layouts shown at the beginning of each episode are all wrong? It's always the same layout that is displayed with the little crosses flashing randomly over it, regardless of which team's plans are being explained. There is always a wind turbine towards the bottom left. The track plans at the end, just before the demonstrations, seem to be correct. It's been bugging me since I first noticed it, and the same problem seems to crop up with every episode. I can't imagine why the production team would do that if it was not accidental, nor why it should keep repeating if it was? Apologies if this has already been spotted and commented on elsewhere ad nausiam - if so I missed that.