Tortuga

Not much progress to report apart from that I managed to get a couple of hours to visit the ‘2023 Narrow Gauge & Industrial Exhibition’ held by Bourneville Model Railway Club in Longbridge late on Saturday afternoon. It was a nice little exhibition, with eight trade stands a couple of demonstration stands and 16 layouts, a couple of which I’d seen before. I felt it was perhaps a bit heavy on the narrow gauge and light on the industrial side, but there were a few interesting prototypes on display. Unfortunately, circumstances dictated I was only able to get there about an hour and a half before packing up time, so only a few of the layouts were being operated, understandably if you’ve been on the go all day. The trade stands leaned heavily towards narrow gauge (surprise surprise!) and second hand locomotives and rolling stock. God knows why, but I was sorely tempted by a second-hand Lima 4F in the senior scale, though I managed to resist in the end. I was less successful at resisting a couple of packs of Modelu engine crew from MTB Model Supplies - painting them has been added to the ever increasing list and I’ll guarantee I won’t be able to find them when I get round to it! All in all, a pleasant break from Daddy Duty/Wardrobe Construction, the only blot on which was the trader (who will remain unidentified) who un-subtly covered his cash box on the occasions I passed his stand - I guess a T-shirt emblazoned with “8 out of 10 Goths Prefer Whitby”, a pirate bandanna and multiple earrings indicates someone who is up to no good!

I can’t help you regarding PECO or Marcway points, but I bought C&L kits for Alsop (I know thats 4mm scale, but I’m guessing 7mm kits are similar?) and I found them pretty good kits to build. As a complete novice at track building, I managed to build a Tandem 3-way point and not having to file my own blades or build my own common crossings was a massive help. Just make sure you order the right kit! - when I ordered my 4mm kits I didn’t know any better and ended up with common crossings with a 1mm flangeway, when I should’ve gone for ones with a 1.25mm flangeway. I don’t know if there’s a similar scale/gauge issue in 7mm? The kits helpfully include roller gauges, but you can opt not to include them when ordering. I’d also recommend reading the instructions through several times before starting and not necessarily starting with step one - the instructions start with laying the straight stock rail and general advice (from the track laying section on here) was to position the common crossing first, which I did. The only bad points (pardon the unintentional pun) are the templates (I’ll explain in a bit) and the tie bar, which for your use will probably be OK since you’re insetting the track. Yes. 100x yes. It takes a bit of getting used to in order to use, BUT I’d say well worth it. The templates included in the C&L kits are fine IF you’re building a straight point (which you are), but Templot will give you the opportunity to “try before you buy”. I’d use it to create templates for different types of point (ie A5, B6, etc.) then print them, cut them out and lay them out in your track plan to see which sort you need. Well, therein lies the danger! I’m resisting changing to EM by repeatedly reminding myself that I don’t want to completely ruin £100-£200 steam locomotives trying to regauge them. I’d imagine that’s easier with £500+ ones?!

Although it’s not really relevant (LNWR rather than GWR), Alsop-en-le-Dale’s was on a straight part of the goods ‘loop’* between the access turnouts completely remote from the yard. I’d assumed it was there as a check before wagons were added to their train. *not really long enough to justify being called a loop.

I don’t think the building jars; it could be the oldest building on the wharf, with the others coming later. I’m not a fan of its yellow colour though. Might it fit in better if it was whitewashed like the buildings on the left?

I’m in agreement with @Donw. The only difference between your River Brid and the prototype I can see is ripples: could you add some using the method @Graham T has just used on his Chuffnell Regis layout?

Just for a change; actual progress! The track base for boards 3 and 4 marked out, cut out and laid in position!

I’ve added it to the diary.

Hi Jay. Definitely interested in coming along. Might need a bit more work completing on Shallcross, but could be persuaded to bring that along as a WiP if you’re interested/short on proper layouts!

North Birmingham. Wirksworth is about an hour drive away for me if that helps. Certainly the track might be down and wired on Shallcross, but I’m not so sure on the scenery or stock! I could be persuaded to bring it along as a WiP, but it’d be my first time as an exhibitor!

I’m interested in coming and hanging out. I’m doubtful I’d have anything worth showing, even by next year! SWAG always sounds like a fun event, but its a bit of a trek for a day visit for me at the moment.

Just to remind everyone other railways are available; I’ve always got room for any unwanted MR/LMS Fowler 4F 0-6-0s or LNWR 7F 0-8-0 ‘Super D’s!

Alsop Moor Quarry working was a bit of a handful! Leaving aside the absolute pain in the a*se of dropping off empties and shunting at the Quarry, once out of the Quarry siding onto the main line (which was on a downward gradient), if the locomotive brakes weren’t enough to halt the train before the guard could drop sufficient wagon brakes (after he’d re-locked the Quarry ground frame), then the train would run away to to Alsop Station and he would have to follow in the brake van under gravity. At Alsop a train of that length was too long to run around using the loop, so had to be shuffled about in order to swap the locomotive for the brake van and vice versa. There was a northbound passenger service that called at the station around the time the quarry train was there so it had to be shuffled back and forth to let the passenger service through. Once the locomotive and brake van were in their proper places for heading back to Buxton, the train had to fight its way back up the gradient. I suspect the presence of steam sanding gear was one reason why a 4F was assigned to this working. As another point of interest, any locomotives on the working would be running into Alsop Station tender first, since the rules of the line required northbound trains to face Buxton. With regard to the model, sadly, 50 wagons plus brake, filling the loop and shuffling back and forth to let other trains pass is wishful thinking as I definitely don’t have room! Looking at photos of purely mineral workings, it seems 7- and 5-plank wooden bodied minerals with the odd steel mineral were the order of the day. I figure I’ll be able to squeeze about 15 wagons onto the fiddleyard between a short brake van and a 4F, so I’ll just have to assume it’s been a short period of unusually low output from the Quarry!

I have to say, I initially thought you’d captured the “slumped quayside” look intentionally - is an overall view taken from the front of the layout possible? It’s a bit hard to decide how noticeable overall the difference in levels is from the three photos.

I was going to ask if it’d be possible to rest the layout on a flat surface, put something under the centre and push down the ends, then if the last layer was still liquid enough, would it run toward the ends and self level as Lez said? I don’t know as I’ve never worked with resin - apart from a disastrous attempt at using fibreglass, which I suspect doesn’t count!

Has the resin fully set? I like the fourth option for the totem, but with short horizontal lines / gaps across the middle of the two vertical ends, it’d be a touch more obvious it was an M overlaid on a W? Either that or a simplified version of the coach / locomotive totem?

Anyhoo… the Alsop Moor Quarry working: I have two books that refer to this, but alas no photos. Apparently “the quarry closed down in the 1950’s” so was in operation and “the output… increased” during my timeframe, which all adds up to what my reference material suggests was a bit of an operational nightmare; 50 wagons of limestone, brake van and two locomotives, either a 4F and a ex-LNWR ‘Super D’ or two 8Fs depending on which reference source you read. ”But Alsop Moor Quarry is north of Alsop-en-le-Dale!” I hear you cry. Yes, but due to the special arrangements in the working timetable, trains from the quarry had to run first to Alsop, swap the brake van onto the other end of the train and reverse direction back to Buxton. In practice this means a long loaded train will enter the station from Buxton, rearrange itself, sit in the loop for another service to pass (or maybe the other way round), then depart in the direction of Buxton. To add a bit of extra interest I’ll be modelling 44339 of Buxton Shed, which was one of the 4Fs modified for snow plough duties and looks to have retained its modified tender year round. Alsop Moor Quarry Working: ex-LMS 0-6-0 4F and ex-LNWR 0-8-0 7F ‘Super D’ hauling *lots of wooden bodied minerals* plus ex-MR 6-wheel Brake Van

Fortunately (unfortunately) that’s outside my timeframe and, no, my fiddleyard would not be big enough! Once I have the “core” stock (as detailed in my last post) sorted out, I’ll look at special workings like a ballast train and the 8F hauled van train to Ashbourne referred to earlier in the thread (and the snow clearing experiment train?). I could of course move my time period up a decade to the early 60’s and imagine the passenger services weren’t axed in 1954… I could include post-1955 wagons and 1962 wagon liveries… BUT… …I’d lose the Alsop Moor Quarry working (more on this in a bit) and operation would therefore become a touch… dare I say it? …uninteresting?

While I’m being chauffeured on the 2 hour plus commute to work (don’t ask) and my (much) younger colleague has killed all conversation with his *ahem* “music” choice, I thought I’d share the current state of the services that will appear on Alsop. Passenger Services: these comprised three service each way, with two only running between Buxton and Ashbourne and the others covering the full distance between Buxton and Uttoxeter. I haven’t quite figured out how the trains rotated between the different services, but it seems the afternoon service from Uttoxeter returned as the last service from Buxton. Stanier 4P 2-6-4T hauling two 57’ non-corridor stock comprising a 1st/3rd Composite and a Brake/3rd Stanier 4P 2-6-4T hauling two 57’ non-corridor stock comprising a 1st/3rd Composite and a Brake/3rd Fowler 4P 2-6-4T hauling two 57’ non-corridor stock comprising a 1st/3rd Composite and a Brake/3rd I already have the three locos and one set of the coaching stock. I’m awaiting delivery of a second set, plus a third Brake/3rd, meaning a single 1st/3rd Composite still needs to be acquired although I do have an all 3rd Composite which could “stand in” for now. Freight Services: there were two trip workings and two through workings per day (one each way in each case). Typically ex-LNWR ‘Super D’s we’re used as they were the heaviest locos permitted south of Ashbourne. The daily ‘trips’ ran between Buxton and Uttoxeter and crossed at Alsop around midday where they exchanged crews. From the research material, it seems by the time Alsop was reached the train from Buxton was fairly short and weighted toward vans, while northbound freights were longer and included more opens. Southbound Trip: ex-LNWR 0-8-0 7F ‘Super D’ hauling *wagons* plus ex-LMS D1919 Brake Van Northbound Trip: ex-LNWR 0-8-0 7F ‘Super D’ hauling *wagons* plus ex-LMS D1657 Brake Van I have little information on the ‘through’ workings, which apparently ran south to Burton-on-Trent and north to Salford. I imagine they were longer and possibly included “rafts” of similar wagons - one of the photos I do have shows four ICI 5-plank wagons with tilt bars at the head of a southbound working. These look to be empty (they aren’t sheeted), so I’m not sure why they’re heading through to Burton; I was under the impression that a through freight wouldn’t stop to drop off or pick up wagons? Southbound through freight: ex-LNWR 0-8-0 7F ‘Super D’ hauling *wagons* plus ex-LMS D2068 Brake Van Northbound through freight: ex-LMS 0-6-0 4F hauling *wagons* plus BR Brake Van - ‘Rails to Ashbourne’ by H Sprengler has a photo of a northbound freight hauled by a ‘foreign’ (ie not Buxton) 4F passing through Tissington “in the 1950s” so I’m using this as an excuse to vary the loco fleet. Again, I already have all the locos and most of the brake vans. Wagons are an ongoIng project!

Useful. I’ll squirrel that away for the future as I’m getting more tempted to model it, but really must concentrate on getting a working layout! Hmm… the train needs a conflat (company unknown), a 1920’s RCH Shell-Mex tank wagon, an LMS Queen Mary in pre-1936 livery and an inspection saloon that sounds like a 12”:1’ kit conversion - definitely worth modelling as something a bit different!

Track plan transferred to the third board. This board is the second simplest in terms of track, but the most complex in terms of landscape; starting in a cutting at the right hand end and ending up on an embankment at the left hand end, with a underbridge at the end of the platforms. In addition, the land also falls gently away from the camera. I finally got around to photographing the coaches I treated myself to at Christmas. First up a 1st/3rd Composite: Next a Brake/3rd: Both are the ex-LMS Stanier 57’ non-corridor stock in early BR crimson from that well known manufacturer whose products come in red boxes. I’m nowhere near an expert on pre-BR coaches, but the models look like the coaches that appear in the majority of my reference material for passenger services on the line. Finally shown together in a fairly typical formation leaving Alsop bound for Ashbourne (yes I know there should be a loco on the front, but it’s currently inaccessible!). The position of the guard’s compartment seems to have been entirely random: photos show it at the head of the train, the rear or in the middle, possibly as a result of services allegedly being reversed on the triangles at Buxton and Uttoxeter. Two coach services were apparently the norm, occasionally strengthened to three or more rarely four. I can model a three coach rake, but that’s as long as I’ll go, since I’ve had to compress the platform length and four coaches plus loco won’t fit!

To be fair the snow clearing train was already on my “I should model that” list. Anyone know where to get a couple of 4mm scale Rolls-Royce Derwent Mk1 engines?

Cheers Lez. I found a photo of the D&S kit on t’internet and it looks like a match to the one in the reference photo (on page 54 of ‘Scenes from the Past 32 Railways of the High Peak: Buxton to Ashbourne’ by JM Bentley and GK Fox if anyone’s interested). Looks like I have a list of London Road Models building up: I’ll also be looking to get one of their LNWR tender kits to model the water tender used to deliver water to Alsop Station. By the way, I’m definitely blaming both @chuffinghell and @MrWolf for this desire to have a slightly unusual/archaic item of rolling stock. I could’ve settled for another LMS D2068 out of a red box, but no, you two had to go and introduce excellently modelled oddities to your own layouts and inspire me to do the same*. *I am also sorely tempted to model the abortive snow clearing train trialled at Briggs Sidings in 1947 despite it being outside my time period, in the wrong season and never travelling through Alsop! Edit: turns out it did travel through Alsop, coming from Derby and meeting up with a breakdown train from Buxton at Briggs Sidings - looks like I’ve got rid of one excuse not to model it…

I included that in the etc. 😆 I always understood that the driver was responsible for the train while the guard was responsible for the load (whether passengers or goods).

Thats the result of last month’s popular internet auction site shopping. There’s about two or three other kits knocking about waiting to be built as well as ten or so in a part built state. Oh, and about five still awaiting detailing and the paint shop… I’d say I’m going to be busy, but I already am…

I’d say yes, (but the fireman would remain in the loco) as the guard would be responsible for checking tickets, helping old ladies with their parcels, etc.