rynd2it

On closer examination, the Hornby version has the lower lights painted silver on both ends, a red light in the middle just below the windscreen and another just above the windscreen not painted. The Lima version is similar but no paint on any of the lights.

Now to find out how the GWR actually used them.

8 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The real GWR Railcar had 3 lights, a pair of white lights either side inline with the buffers and a central red light as modelled in the Dapol DRC

You don't need dual colour LEDs

The actual position varied depending which series railcar and they sometimes carried a normal oil lamp on a bracket.

e.g.

 

You may well be right, problem is that I can't find an image of the rear of one any where. The Hornby one has one end with the lower lamps painted red. Confusing

Thanks for that but it uses separate LED for red and white. The railcar seems to have only one lamp (or pair of lamps) each end which glows alternately red or white depending on direction of travel. In 12" to 1 foot gauge this is probably a dual filament bulb but the only bi-colour LED I can find is a 2mm one which may prove to be too large.

Anyone done this on regular diesel loco for example?

I'm willing to bet there is a simple answer to this but I can't find it.  I have a loco (actually a GWR railbus) which will go in either direction and I wish to add lights to both ends such that when going forward to front lights are white and the rear red. When in reverse the lights should change accordingly but how?

Thanks

David

Thanks for all the input, very useful stuff indeed.

My main reason for getting into DCC was to reduce the amount and complexity of the wiring after my last project (an OO9 layout with 27 turnouts, working semaphore signals, lighting etc). If I plan properly on my next project it should be much simpler.

Once again thanks, all questions answered.

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

Personally I would purchase complete decoders rather than chips and I consider Zimo to make the best decoders

 

How would you differentiate between chips & decoders?  Just curious

I have just discovered that the 860044 is not a chip but a blanking plug. I need to buy some chips

Thank you both for the input, JST I might take you up on that invite one day soon, you are about an hour away.

I have just started to use my first system - NCE Power Cab starter set. I have three DCC fitted locos, one runs great with no problems.

One of the others is a Bachman Branch Line 64xx GWR tank loco with a Lais-DCC chip (6-pin) 860044. When it sits on the programming track it buzzes on DCC power but runs fine on DC. When I investigated it appears the chip was in upside down so I reversed it but no change in behaviour. This is also happening to a Hornby Rail car fitted with an anonymous chip marked 1606-X001; again it runs on DC but just buzzes on DCC. I acquired all these second hand with no history but all appeared brand new in unmarked boxes.

I suspect the chips are fried but are there some other tests I can do?

Thanks in advance

David

5 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Going back to the top.  You can live frog the point by either adding a fillet of solder to the dead frog points with the sliver of plastic or by filing up an arrow head shape from rail and melting and soldering it into pace on the big plastic blob frog on the earlier type.

With the frog live you can switch the frog with an spdt switch and feed the rails down towards the blades.  On a Peco point bonding the blades is extremely unusual. I doubt anyone does it. I have never read of anyone doing it, the blade relies on contact through its pivot and between rail and blade, sometimes with a tag, often not.    That pivot becomes the weakest link in an overload situation, or outdoors.  You could bond the point blade to the adjacent rail with some super flexible wire, maybe braided motor brush or car alternator brush wire but it will have to withstand thousands of operations and need some pretty fancy soldering down in amongst the rails.

The points illustrated by sol have a built in short if you start cutting wires and bonding, the wheels on the curved route run over the end  of straight rail at the frog, whch is at the reverse polarity.  Its not a problem out of the box.  The insulation is just a sliver. I test trackwork with a test loco with only one axle pick up. It should be able to crawl all over the layout without stopping

I'm not trying to create a frog polarity or even make them live. The problem we have is, as clearly stated in the OP, is electrical connection between blade rail and stock rail. In quite a few cases, when switching the point the blade remains dead.

The solution is wire in tube and DPDT slide switches.

Case closed, thanks

10 hours ago, Grovenor said:

DPDT slide switches are readily available and will allow you to do what you are asking, use one contact set for the left hand switch and the other for the right hand switch. This will work equally well for insulfrog or electrofrog as it is just supplementing the blade-stockrail contact.

Thanks, that is the best solution

1 hour ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Do you have a multimeter ? 

 

Can you confirm that the two blades are not electrically connected to each other within the turnout's existing wiring ?   If so, a switching option may be possible which isolates the blades.   But if not, and the two blades are electrically connected, then there isn't a solution which doesn't involve a saw or cutting disc. 

 

 

I know this hence the post

10 hours ago, Sol said:

Isolation  of blades from frog can be done in situ using a dremel to cut rails & bonding also done in situ - drill down next to blades & stock rails , solder a wire to blade rail, down thru one hole, up the other to the stock rail, this works both for DC & DCC.

 

Granted, it is a bit of work but it works.

No, not with these old points. Cutting blades cuts them totally free with no base

5 hours ago, Sol said:

The frog is electrically isolated from the blades which are bonded underneath to the stock rails

One of many on the Internet  ....  http://www.mrol.com.au/Pages/Vu/LiveFrogWiring

 

As I said at the beginning, the turnouts are a mix of live and insulated frogs, they are old and therefore the bonding wires are not there and the track is already laid down. So I need a method that connects one blade to it stock rail while disconnecting the other blade from its stock rail.

DPDT switches would do this but how to use them? The two methods suggested seem to indicate wire in tube and slide switches is the best option.

Thanks all, 

3 hours ago, jpendle said:

They are switching the frog.

 

John P

Not what I was looking for, 

8 hours ago, BR60103 said:

They are single pole double throw.

 

How do you switch two blade/stock rail set with a SPDT?

46 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

If your points are completely manual, by which I understand "poking finger", then anything is going to be more complex.

The slide switch and wire in tube is pretty simple and its difficult to think of anything more straightforward. If you don't mind the visual intrusion, then microswitches might be ok, but they are the devil to set up accurately!

My thoughts exactly, thanks

5 hours ago, BR60103 said:

On part of my layout I added microswitches operated by the bar that joins the point. You would have to add the wiring to the frog which would then run back to the points. This still  leaves the open point opposite polarity to the adjacent rail. (This assumes electrofrog points.)  

I had thought of that as well, I assume they are double pole switches so contact is made which ever way the turnout is switched.

We have a conundrum - the layout is already built and track laid with a mixture of electrofrog and insulfrog turnouts. The operation of the turnouts is completely manual (BHS) and therefore is relying on physical contact between blade and stock rails to provide electrical continuity. We know this is not ideal but is was built many years ago with little technical knowledge. The turnouts are quite old and therefore do not have the wires that can be cut to separate the blade rails from the frog rails so bonding blade to stock will not be possible.

Given the existing situation, what can be done to provide a more reliable electrical connection of blade to stock? We have considered using wire-in-tube operated by slide switches so providing a switch to complete the circuit. Any other, possibly less complex, solutions?

Thanks

David

54 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Stick the hot tip in and out a few times.

 

 

Far enough to melt the flux?

My Amazon package just arrived and included the brass wire cleaner. It has a flux past reservoir at the bottom, how is this used, do I need to heat it and melt the past or.......?

2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

When I solder up multi pin connectors, I tin the end of the wire, using a cocktail stick, I put a drop of rosin flux in the hole, push the end of the wire in and a quick zap with the iron, job done.

 

 

Interesting, I tin the hole by putting thin solder in and quickly heating, tin the wire and then heat the pin again and push in. The problem seems to be I am not using a hot enough tip and therefore holding it in contact for too long. I'll give your version a try next time, thanks

4 minutes ago, Torper said:

I may not be as fussy as others, but I find that after soldering using Carrs Green label flux a quick wash of the model under the tap using a toothbrush and possibly some cream cleaner is quite adequate.  At the end of the day, and if the model fits, I also usually immerse it in an ultrasonic bath (one of the cheap ones from Lidl) to which I've added some specialist flux removing fluid and that ensures that all is perfectly clean for painting.  Incidentally, I find that provided I keep the soldering tip clean through use of sponge and/or brass wool, there's very seldom any need for tinning compound.

 

DT

Bit difficult washing control panels & track under the tap 

So rosin it is for me

Thanks again, order in with Amazon (UK) for all the flux, brass wire and tinning compound.

Thanks for this, but raised a couple more questions.

Is the rosin flux no-clean and what did you mean by "tinning compound" for the tip cleaning?