Martin S-C

I understand that Murphy has definitively stated that photographs of your models can be studied in private for weeks and reveal no untoward features or mistakes. These only materialise after you have uploaded said images onto web forums and the number of views of the images has exceeded 50. As the view numbers increase, so the mistakes become more and more blatant. Its really not a good idea to upload images of your latest creation then go away smugly on holiday for a couple of weeks.

ModelU needs to 3D scan those three fine fellows to make up some authentic L&Y pre-grouping loco crews. And the headgear shows why early engines didn't need cabs.

All of a sudden this thread made me come over all peckish...

I have encountered all species of scale and not-so-scale 3-links in modelling and I have never really seen one that is fully satisfactory scale-wise. Our model forces and loads are a lot out of scale of course and our track and wheel geometry likewise, even in the finer scales but looking at how slender a thing a real 3-link coupling is compared to the massive weights it has to cope with I am amazed they functioned at all! I like 3-links and your variant on it Bob, but have always been dissuaded by the intricate, eye-watering fiddling needed to couple and uncouple and the need for sprung buffers and excellent track geometry. I am somewhat regretful to say that, partly in laziness, I fell back on the commercial tension hook couplers simply out of being daunted by the amount of work in changing. The smallest ones available today do not look anything like as bad as they did 30 years ago but they are still ugly intrusions into my suspension of disbelief compared to 3-links.

That's a splendid image. I imagine that to be the Little Muddle Railway's board of directors enjoying a pleasant Saturday afternoon's relaxation after speaking with their stockbrokers on the telephone in the morning. And of course there's nothing better for your health than a brisk exercise around 18 holes while puffing a Woodbine.

I know I inserted the cat among the pigeons with the dustbins comments so I hate to say this... but did golf umbrellas exist in the 1930s? In addition - love the tree shadow in post #2707 and the weathering on the loco in #2709. Great job.

Unless you're a masochist, when they seem annoyingly short!

The discussion started in this thread. I jumped in and had a go because chuffinghell was doing some interesting things and I thought I'd try. My input begins at post #28 and then post #40 however Mikkel (as usual!) shows some better quality wagon sheets in post #12 on page 1, though his process involves a fair bit more work than mine - and it shows in the results! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136093-wagon-tarpaulins-the-easy-way/page-2 I was actually just showcasing the sheets here as well since they are layout related but there's little to say about my layout right now! My home made markings use POWsides dry-rub transfers (just basic sans-serif alphabets and numerals) with the white X and diamond markings using BR era diagonal white line transfers - the ones used to indicate the end-door on steel mineral wagons. These were from Fox.

But how do we know that?

Whilst waiting for the builders to arrive everything has gone to sheet. The pre-grouping ones are David Smith sheets suitably crumpled prior to fitting and then drybrushed with various shades of grey. The fictional ones are plain paper and crumpled/painted/POWsides dryfix transfers added. I left some uncrumpled and gave others different levels of folding or rolling to try and suggest different ages or levels of abuse. Note that all are removable in line with my (shameless playing with trains) ethic that all open wagon loads should be removable so I can pretend that goods are being delivered to stations or industries and empty wagons are leaving. The paper sheets are reinforced with balsa blocks in most cases and metal weights in others and just sit over the wagon sides like a hat. This is why I haven't depicted any lines or ropes securing them down. I thought long and hard (well, long and hard for me) about trying to show lines on sheets that had to be removable but nothing practical entered my small brain that wouldn't end up being very fragile and/or fiddly.

I agree, you can see who is speaking in the group, and how the others are listening.

Superb, what did you use for the sheet and ropes?

If you got near wagon load capacity before the whole floor of the wagon was covered I imagine the lads would leave a central empty well but secure the slabs to front and rear of the wagon and pack the centre space with something like a crate and sacking. It makes sense to me to load the weight evenly as possible over the wagons whole wheelbase, rather than, say, at one end.

My builder was supposed to come for the site visit yesterday at 10:00 but at 09:00 he rang me to say he couldn't make it as another job had run over. He's now coming next Monday, the 13th. I do hate how these dratted things always seem to drag on. Meanwhile here are the other station plans with my attempt at "correct" signal positions. While I love the quirkiness of the stop/call forward system I think I will employ that along the branch where it seems more appropriate. Full thanks to you, Kevin for explaining it all to me, as a system for putting on a model railway it's awesome. I would just prefer something less stoppy-starty along the main line. Borrocks: 1] Down home. A 3-arm junction to control entry into platforms 2/3 and 4 and the goods loop. 2] Up home which also protects the colliery exit. A 2-arm junction to control entry into platform 1 and the goods loop. 3] Up home from the MVR Exchange Sidings. This gives access only into Platform 4. 4] Down starter for platforms 2/3 and 4. A junction arm will control whether a train leaving platform 2/3 will go down the main or swing left to the Exchange line. I may need a shunt or goods signal here as well to control trains entering the colliery. 5] Um... a mistake. I don't think I need this! 6] Up starter from platform 4. 7] Up starter from platform 1. 8] Signal controlling exit from colliery. 9] Down starter from goods loop. Also signal to control shunt moves from the goods loop into the colliery. 10] Up starter from goods loop. BTW platform 2/3 is for down trains, platform 1 for up. Platform 4 is bi-directional. I think I may need 2 signal cabins here with the second one opposite signal '10' with a good view into the tunnel entrance. Great Shafting: Nice and simple! 1] Home signal. 2] Starters for bay and main platform (2 arms) 3] Starter for freights leaving the yard. This should be a bit further up and to the left of the turnout whose blades it is right beside. 4] Shunt signal for movements out of the canal wharf/industrial area (I realise now this should be up a bit, before the crossover and immediately to the right of the red circle marked '3'). The signal cabin probably needs to be sited a bit closer to signal '4' but where the signalman can still see into the tunnel entrance. I drew these up all at the same time, so the branch shows conventional signals. I'll have a go at changing these to the stop/call forward system. There may well be 2 engines in steam on the branch with a passenger or freight serving the terminus while another train travels only part way to serve the quarry or wood distillation plant. BTW, if it wasn't obvious the branch connects at A-A and B-B.

After 2 or 3 days work (interspersed with laying about in a state of near heat-exhaustion for hours at a time and wishing my ice-maker was more efficient) I have come up with these. The fictional sheets are for my own railway system and made of the ordinary fine mat cartridge paper I mentioned before. The three pre-group sheets are from the David Smith range which really bulks-up too much and goes all weird and fibrous when you crumple it. I think its just too heavy and stiff a paper to make convincing wagon sheets in the smaller scales. It would probably work well in 7mm scale. All these are removable with a variety of weights and balsa support blocks beneath. Dry brushing with various light greys helps I think - before that the sheets were too dull and monotone and the creases were not obvious enough. My bottle of Shellac should arrive tomorrow and I'll paint it around the insides using a couple of coats to see how that improves the paper's durability.

Thanks, Kevin, it all sounds very interesting and - mainly - unusual. I shall give this a try. My only concern is I have 4 stations on a fairly short run and already there will be a lot of stopping and starting on each end to end journey. The stop boards require another stop so a significant part of the journey will be trains held stationary or creeping along at about 10mph. I doubt I'll ever have anything exceeding a scale 25mph at any point but all the stop-starting is a bit of a concern. I may use this system along the branch and go for something more conventional on the main line.

I think its really funky! And very odd. So using my track layout, a train comes off the branch (from upper right in your top diagram). It reaches the lollipop and halts. When the signalman is ready to receive it into the platform he simply waves it in, yes? The train then draws past the signal hut with its three arms on the roof (at danger) and halts in the platform. If it is now to continue along the main (out of frame to the left), the signal man now lowers the lower small (branch) arm behind the driver, who then toots an acknowledgement and draws away. I assume that as the train rolls by the signal cabin at walking pace the driver hands over to the bobby his ticket from the branch and collects one from the main. He still can't enter the main until his road is set and the bobby lowers the arm. Have I got that about right? If the train is terminating at the junction, the loco uncouples and presumably the bobby lowers the arm to allow the loco forward onto the main in order to run around its train. Remember I'm modelling "fantasy" but set around the time of The Great War, so presumably these practices were well out of period - and law! - by then. I do of course have my short branch modelled in its entirety - junction (this one), two small through stations and a terminus. This was built as a light railway in the 1870s so I could have the old fashioned signals along there, with something more modern like arm-in-slot or crossbar and disc along the main line. I recall seeing the working crossbars and discs on Mike Sharman's layout and fell in love with them. There was still one on the Churchway Branch, Forest of Dean until WWII. It protected a crossing of Brain's horse-drawn tramway (which had been disused since 1925).

During construction I shall endeavour to move that turnout leftwards as far as curve radii permit. But even where it is I foresee plenty of room for the branch train to fit to it's right. So, signals mounted atop a platform mounted signal cabin would suggest no interlocking and the signalman would release them when it was desirable to call a train forwards? Am I warm? I confess to signalling being my weak suit and Victorian practice being very obscure, although I'm very interested in including something unusual, fun, archaic and... different. How do "stop and call forward" signals function? Also, apologies for the signalling 101 course, I am amazed how much I have failed to learn after 40 years of playing with toy trains.

Here's the first station down the line, Snarling Junction (change for trains to Wit's End). I had marked in potential ground signals (A to E) but I think I'll not bother with those, so just the homes and starters are needed I think. Note that platform 3 is bi-directional. [1] Up home signal. This will need to be a bracket with a lower doll to the right to control the route into the branch platform (platform 3). [2] Down home. Likewise a lower junction doll to the left for access into platform 3. [3] Up starter for platform 1. [4] Down starter. A lower doll on the left to control trains leaving platform 3. [5] Up starter to only control trains departing platform 3. [6] Up branch home signal. [7] Down branch starter.

I like that they're "Camp Coaches" and not "Camping Coaches"

I want to go and camp in it overnight, fry sausages on an open fire with my pals, tell ghost stories and wake up to the sound of shunting trains beyond the fence.

Yes, I was thinking about using some curious old-fashioned signals simply because they are fun. I could use a falling ball there, or a slotted post so the arm disappears when at clear. Another option is a Brunel disc and bar, another favourite of mine. The slotted arm is easy, I am just having a bit of a think about how you'd model a falling/lifting ball signal in 4mm... it would certainly be different, and fun to have.

Thanks Kevin, no, only light engines, ECS and empty freight stock being moved to/from the stock storage sidings will negotiate the triangle. No paying passengers. The occasional schoolboy sneaked onto a footplate by kindly Norris Thyroid the cranky old fireman possibly, but that's it. I quite like the idea of a signal to control goods trains leaving the yard mainly because its heading out onto the main line and not a shunty-thing. Should I do without ground signals in a light railway setting? Everything shunted around would be hand-wavy control?

I have begun thinking about signalling. I need the signalling to be the "most basic a light railway would need to function safely while meeting any BoT requirements" and to that end I have started to draw up plans for each station. First off here is Nether Madder, the principal terminus. I have placed a home signal, a starter at the platform ends, a starter from the goods yard and a signal to control egress from the loco triangle to the platform roads. In my experience [1] will have a higher arm denoting the main platform face and a lower arm denoting the bay. [2] would be a single arm. [3], the home signal would have 3 arms, the centre one on the tallest doll for the main platform, with the left and right on equal height but lower dolls for the bay and goods yard. [4] I am unsure about. If it needs to control both arms of the triangle and control access to all three roads (main platform, bay and goods loop) then we are looking at a monster 6-arm edifice which seems complete over kill to me. I hope people could suggest something much simpler - perhaps a man on the ground waving his arm? I don't yet know if I'm going to go so far a ground signals and if I do, whether they'll function. I'd like them to (wouldn't we all?) but we'll have to see how far the budget and my eyesight stretch. If I do plant them I can see a need for them at each of the diamond shaped locations: [A] to control access to the timber yard siding, to control the engine release crossover and [C] to control engine movements across the double slip into the turning triangle. Have I fluffed up anywhere? Can anyone see anything else needed? Please bear in mind this isn't the WCML and we are looking at only a slightly more salubrious set up than Col Stephens would approve of.

I agree with Ademoore - your figures are wonderful. The two pairs in the last photo of post #2623 are especially pleasing - where do you get them please?