Otis JB

Yes of course, anything in life is worth what people are willing to pay and that is exactly the reason why manufacturers can charge the prices they do. I actually thought that the terrier had a good, competitive price but as many have said it is just not currently justifiable with the plagues of quality control issues and design flaws. If it did what it was supposed to do and if there wasn't a very good alternative for a lot less already on the market, I would never have mentioned its' price. On the issue of the constantly rising prices of Bachmann, I have to ask you, do you not feel that at least in some regard they are starting to exploit the customers' feeling of having a nice model they can admire for extra profit? In nobody's world is a C Class in plain Southern black worth £170, especially when you remember that the tooling is 7 years old and it originally retailed for around £60. As Jennifer Kirk says, if they only had a good justification, there wouldn't be a problem but they simply don't. There are very similar models from other manufacturers that accomplish much more for much less but still Bachmann keep increasing their prices. That is not very fair to the customers that keep them in business in my opinion. In fact I think it they are treating us as an expendable horse that they can keep flogging as much as they like because they think they can get away with it. Anyway, that's enough moaning, as you said this is a terrier thread and we should try to keep it that way. If mine arrives as advertised, I will obviously take back what I said with pleasure but I just don't think it will. I guess we will have to wait and see, Kind regards, Otis

Well I suppose it does compared to the likes of Bachmann and Heljan's prices but maybe not when compared with the competition. Additionally, if you take Hornby's new Rocket, while not perfect it effectively costs the same as these terriers if you estimate each coaches' worth at £20 (a considerably low estimate) which is quite astonishing considering its' size, detail and fidelity. Just because Bachmann values their new 0-6-0 at £130+ doesn't mean it's worth it.

While of course I think we can all agree that there are much more pressing problems in the world today than the cab on the Rails terrier but you could say that about anything in the whole hobby of model railways and many other things too. This response irks me rather a lot as this is a railway modelling web and this is a pressing issue on this specific thread. Also might I add that if there really are things that mean that much more to you, then why are you taking the time to reply to me about this. Additionally, I never said I thought it was the end of the world, I just said that it is an awful design feature for a model that costs £110 and was advertised as 'the only terrier worth having', which I think is fair as do many others. Regards, Otis

That is a very interesting point if true. I don't know whether Dapol have their own factory or not, I thought that most manufactures did but if they are outsourcing that would explain things a lot more. I obviously don't know enough about the subject of manufacturing in China, I have based most of my analysis on Rapido's model of production as they are the only company who document what happens in the way they do. I guess it could always be worse but that doesn't give me solace, it just makes me more unhopeful and dreadful. I usually am the optimist but not at the moment. Thanks, Otis

Yes I agree that with more information that I would feel much better about the whole thing. I truly believe that Rails are trying their hardest to help and keep the customer informed and have just been let down again and again by Dapol. For me, the whole deal seems to look even worse due to the constant promises, I respect that Rails didn't know what was ahead when they made them and are trying to be helpful based on Dapol's info at the time but it is hard to believe them at this point. It has just been promise after promise after promise. I personally do not believe they will be here with us at the end of this month, whether that's because of a decoration error or an oversight in the electrics, something else will happen. I am still looking forward to my terrier and I can't do anything but be patient but this is crazy. If I knew about all of this at the start then I'm not sure I would have spent my money with this partnership. The dedication we have as consumers in this hobby is pretty staggering sometimes. We have all invested ourself into this model now and that is what I think is keeping us from going to the alternative more than the extra details. Thanks, Otis

Thanks for the information Roy. I was under the impression that companies like Hornby were sent pictures along the stages of production and kept a close eye on what the factory was up to. Additionally, I know that Rapido for example definitely have a close relationship with their premisses in China as highlighted in their various entertaining update vlogs on YouTube. In my opinion, even it is the 'modern way' for most other companies including Dapol, it seems rather foolish just to leave the factory alone, especially as multiple faults have been discovered already with these models. I might also say again that this model has already been made once by Dapol in 7mm and yet it's still taking this long. The time from announcement to production (for the first batch not including the time to rectify mistakes), was longer than the time it takes to create many models that have never been made before in RTR in any scale. Otis

Thanks, I suppose that is something to keep in mind but it is rather frustrating as a decoration error has already been found and supposedly rectified once before. I still find it very confusing how no one noticed such a thing had happened again unless the factory is left to its own devices to carry out production. I agree with you about the Hornby terrier, it's nothing to shout about but when you compare it with Rail's described offerings it looks much more tame than the so-called 'pedigree' Otis

Hello fair people of RM Web, I have been following this thread for well over a year now and have had a DCC ready Brighton Gold Medal terrier on order since September but never felt the need to comment until now. I'm sure I will get some negative feedback from what I have to say but it is what I think and I'm sure you can understand that I am very frustrated. Many of you waiting on the outstanding terriers like I am are probably already aware of this message that has been on Rail's site since Monday but I will attach it here in case you are not: UPDATE 29/06/20 Delay in Terrier shipment. A small defect has been found with the bodies on the next batch of our Terrier models. As a result, Dapol have instructed the factory to remould and re-decorate the affected models. This has unfortunately resulted in a short delay in their shipment to the UK. Whilst this is regrettable we feel it is best for all concerned that the time is taken to correct the issue now and we look forward to being able to dispatch your models to you as soon as they arrive. We expect to take delivery of the models towards the end of July (subject to us approving the new production samples) Now I completely and wholeheartedly understand why the delays related to shipment have occurred but another error? Really?! I thought Dapol knew how to make proper models and that was why Rails had trusted them with so many of their exclusive projects and I thought that Dapol had basically made this model once before in 7mm, making the OO variant just a simple matter of scaling down? This clearly isn't a 'small defect' as described in the above message as it has warranted a complete remoulding and redecorating of every model, something which I believe has already happened once before not to mention an electrical fault? I must ask who on earth is in charge of QC at Dapol? I understand that people from the UK can't fly over and meet with the factory and see the product in person but other companies are seeming to manage despite the circumstances - Hornby as described on their Engine Shed blog, for example. It seems truly baffling to me that no one in the whole factory spotted a 'minor defect' that lead to a complete remould and redecoration? I don't know about you but that doesn't scream competency to me. As I have also ordered an SECR D, which is being produced by Dapol-Rails too, I am wondering whether I should just cancel it now and wait until Hornby announce it? They say patience is a virtue but they also say all things in moderation. I remember when the terrier was promised for Warley. Then it was Christmas. Then the virus interfered which was completely out of anyones hands so no complaints there, but then it was promised for March. Then it was June. And now it's July (conditionally). July doesn't sound awfully convincing now when you put it like that does it? The more this project continues, the more it seems to decay. I'm not sure how many of you have seen Matt from BluebellModelRailway's review of 643 on YouTube: and later his great conversion series of the model from 643 to Fenchurch, but they both highlight some very profound and un-ignorable issues on the model. For example the awful gap on the roof (so the back of the cab can be exchanged easily for different versions), a truly awful piece of design if you ask me. Additionally I have seen many of the 'horror stories' of issues on this forum such as bent running plates (something which seems like more of an achievement considering they're made of die cast metal!) Let me put it this way, if I didn't already have one on pre-order which version do you think I would choose? The one that's significantly cheaper, quieter, does what it says on the tin, maybe slightly more generic but will arrive with me in two days or the one that's more expensive, has cosmetic issues built in, will likely arrive with extra faults and will arrive with me in heck knows how long? I don't blame Rails for these issues and I want to make that very clear. I think they must be feeling even worse than I am about their Terrier knowing the alternative option already on the market. I do like Rails a lot and it's sad to see this venture hasn't worked out as planned for them, they are trying to do new things and serve the customer well, which usually they succeed in doing, I guess it just didn't work out this time. Anyway that's my ten cents on it, Cheers, Otis