rowehillmaster

.... been playing again - as my initial model has the flatter top roof and in the absence of detail, I have made a coloured decal (my interpretation of colours) to recreate the look - what do you think ?

...made contact with Peter - done a little more -:

.... please can you get in touch ? - I am struggling with getting enough info on the brakes - perhaps the 'manuals' may give me some help. Regards Andy

.... touch down !

Yes it will be fully scalable, you will loose a bit of detail at the smaller scales and the kit may be a bit simpler but it will all work. Have done a bit more -: ..... brake gubbins and landing gear next -

... progress slow - : .... got the compensator spring and the damper in now, making a start on the rail chassis part of the swing beam now.

OK, so thinking about the actual model, that I am going to make - what suggestions do people have for how to do the coupler - would a wire hook be best ? - what do people think ?

... and here is a .gif of the coupling -:

I have learnt an awful lot from the patent images and descriptions, I now understand how the ball joint on the front coupler works - at one point I thought the rear receptacle pivoted ! -:

Have worked out the coupler -: https://youtu.be/ajMyXycDP2U

More info - one of the US photos had a makers plate that listed 3 Patents - a bit of searching and digging on the US Patents Office website and each of them is available as a .pdf ! - lots of diagrams on the transfer mechanism, the coupler and the brakes - very interesting - a couple of examples -:

..... and with help from a very useful photo that I received - I have completed the front end -:

..... but actually, now I have modelled it again, using the actual dimensions from the GA Drawing - it looks a bit stronger -:

Now that sounds interesting - I have messaged you

I have not found out the US versions part suppliers - Rotax were selling to the US aircraft manufacturers in the 1950s through their Canadian division, so it could well be the same - I will let you know if I find out different. Andy

..... I have located the air motor - this is an air motor .... here is the air motor on the Roadrailer .... you can just make it out in this picture of one of the UK Roadrailers, ( i have messed about with the contrast to try and enhance it here is another shot of the US one, note the air reservoir (moved on the UK version to the rear spine piece slope as the additional frame strengtheners are there you can see that here ..... that took some working out !

The story of this surviving Roadrailer #186, gets curiouser and curiouser ! - my Chesapeake and Ohio Historical Newsletter Vo. VIII - No. 12 December 1976 states -: The prototype models were built without side doors, to increase the strength of the sides as structural members. However, doors were later added to the prototype Railvans (and all subsequent RoadRailers were built with them) Numbers 170 -199 Date/Builder 1964 C&O Grand Rapids So it was one of the last built ? - with no stiffeners or side door and skids on its undercarriage legs like the prototypes? I have found a photo of #186, in a field near Wyoming Yard in Grand Rapids, Michigan taken in June 1980, but it sits tight between two others and you cannot tell if it has a side door, ? In the Chesapeake and Ohio Historical Newsletter Vo. VIII - No. 12 December 1976 it tells of six sitting in a field at Wyoming Yard in Grand Rapids - same group ? - in that group is number 149, with no side door ! The others in the field are 141, 150, 152, 166 & 185 Number 149 does not exist in the C&O numbering/build list !, it has 150-152 built 1959 by Visioneering Co. Cleveland, and 153 -157 built 1959 by Visioneering Co. Cleveland in the 1980 photo number 149 is of a differing construction / underframe to number 186 and any other I have seen, with or without side doors. The build list does have 115-144 built 1964 by C&O Grand Rapids The Chesapeake and Ohio Historical Magazine July/August 1998 Vol. XXXI states -: the RoadRailers in that Grand Rapids field have all been scrapped, except one which is in the B&O Museum Collection in Baltimore - I have a photo of that and it is number 170 - and that is not in the field in 1980, and it has a side door. I have a picture of number 186, on its rail wheels at Grand Haven Michigan taken in 1987, it has no side door. The earliest picture I can find of it where it is now is 2002 Oh the questions !

.... have you noticed this is an early 'no side door' version without the strenghteners above the wheel pivot supports ? - it is number 186 (I have some number series information and will check it out)

Just for interest, I now have over 60 photos from the USA of a surviving Railroader - lots of detail that will read across to the UK version and a lot of my uncertainties around the underframe have been answered - here is a small selection.

There is a photo for sale on e-bay, interesting as it has text upon the rear and appears to be a PSC official photo with a number and date (Sept 1960), the strengtheners look like new additions and it still has the american six stud wheels https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROADRAILER-PHOTO-ARGENTIQUE-VINTAGE-21-x-15-cm-TRAIN-WAGON-SYSTEME-AMERICAIN/382300956925?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D6a35732f97b345bcb35cf5f2790a07e4%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D382300956925%26itm%3D382300956925&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Af7736816-c214-11e8-84bb-74dbd18017ad%7Cparentrq%3A19781cf11660aada915ebf07fff7ca09%7Ciid%3A1

I now have a full size scan of C & O General Arrangement Drawing 218-R-263 'Road-Rail Van' dated 1954, it is the rounded corner early shape, like the ones that were sent to England in 1958 - but most interestingly it shows the cast rail bogie wheel carriers as used in the English version - in a text I have describing the US version it does mention the completion of the 3 improved, lighter by half a ton, versions in 1959, presumably the pattern of the majority of all the later US production ones we see.

.... and the wheels tuck away nicely .... also good news, I have located a surviving one in the USA at a small railway museum in Sparta Michigan - and through some e-mail dialog I have had with a lady at the Sparta Township Historical Commission, a kind gentleman is going to get me some detail photos of the coupler mechanism etc for me

.... what style of other bogie / wagon / carriage also uses that style of bearing block - it can't of been a one off just for the Roadrailer - it seems to be rubber mounted ?

slowly working up the detail on the underframe, you can see why it had strength problems !

.... I am starting the underframe, coupler and socket - to date I have not gathered much information, enough for the basics but would appreciate any details or information and help - thanks in advance, regards Andy