Keith Addenbrooke

Excellent - worth taking the time to read through the whole thread.

1 hour ago, MAP66 said:

Good luck with the kit builds Keith. With the Metcalfe card kits, some of them have a card base which you can use as the building footprint, you can then use this to check sizes, clearances and placement on the baseboard without completing all of the kit. Not sure if this is the case with the Brewery building kit?

Happy building

Mark

 

 

Mark, thanks for the pointer - it's a good start point.  I'm aiming to get the buildings to a semi-finished state to give an indication of size / sight-lines as well. The brewery kit (now discontinued) does have bases, but each building also has loading docks with platforms to measure up too.

The first task has been lining up and fitting the 71 windows into the three buildings - I'm glad I like the idea of small layouts!

So, deep breath, and here I go...I'm going to start with the buildings I need, both for the practice piece and the layout.  Given the tight clearances on micro-layouts I'd like to be able to check the clearances around the buildings before cutting the baseboards or laying track.  I also have some Roket Card Glue to use up after completing another card kit.

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Whereabouts are you, Keith? Maybe some RMweb member near you could cut the timber for you on a table saw.

Thanks Joseph, it's a good idea. I am quite happy to do the woodwork - I enjoy it but it's just not a strong point. It'll help my snooker too, to get some practise.

I’ve broken down the project into 6 distinct steps to help my thinking: there will be new things for me at each stage.

1.  Baseboards – I have the wood, but I’ve yet to master cutting in a straight line.  I’ll need two boards (of different widths) that marry together.

2.  Trackwork – I’d like to widen the sleeper-spacing for OO (which will be interesting for the points), as well as painting the rails and ballasting.  Inside the engine shed I also ought to have track inset into the building floor.

3.  Buildings – the station kit needs assembly.  I may do this first and before laying track, to ensure clearances will work.  The instructions include advice on painting and weathering, which I’ve not tried before.  The inside of my resin-build engine shed is totally plain, and there’s a platform to build as well, which will be partly triangular to fit the siding.

4.  Other scenic ground cover.  I’ve been given a supply of traditional scatter materials to use, which I’m happy to try.

5.  Electric power and wiring.  Although very simple, I will need power to cross a baseboard joint.

6.  Rolling stock: a lot of my R-T-R stock has large tension lock couplings. They prevent buffer locking on sharp curves, but it’d be good to try replacing them after seeing some of the examples used on other small layouts.

I’m not planning a backscene on this layout, so the station can be viewed from all sides, though for display purposes when on the bookshelf and not in use it may be worth adding later.

It will help me to have some practice with each of these six steps, so I’ve therefore decided to add a test piece into this build project, using one of the simple designs I offered as part of the Billy Bookcase thread in the BRM Magazine section of Rmweb: a small industrial module based on the old Metcalfe Brewery kit – working name, the “Short-Age Brewery”.  This will be built in parallel, as it has the same six steps (step 5 – wiring, introduces a kickback siding).  I’m not giving this a separate build thread topic at this point, as it’s really just to support the station model, but it may be referenced from time to time.  One change: I’ll use Setrack points for consistency across the project – I have them and it seems to be an acceptable compromise that looks OK on micro-layouts.  If this extra module works out OK, I may join them together (why not?).

I’m just in the process of completing a card kit, which has given me time to think through my next steps before dashing in too quickly, and then this project will be next up.

"Short Edge" is the working name I'm giving to a fun project I'm looking at while my magnum opus - Union Station - pauses for delivery of rolling stock in the summer.*

I'm still looking to make the leap from long-time dreamer / planner / collector to layout modeller, so want something to be pressing on with.  "Short Edge" aims to do this by combining three design concepts into one: it's a Billy Bookcase layout, and a complete micro-layout, and a beginner's layout (based on the BRM Project: Edgeworth).

I drew the plan in Anyrail - using a grid at 3" intervals.  Track is OO Gauge Peco Code 100 Setrack / Streamline.  The theme is a GWR Branch Line Terminus, something I've always wanted and for which I already have suitable buildings / kits and rolling stock.  Control will be DC, and only needs one connection anywhere at the right hand end.

How do I explain the 3-in-1 design:

Billy Bookcase: the principal scenic area at the left is 30" long - this is the allowable length for a Billy Bookcase layout (note: I am using a little extra width for the buildings);

Micro-Layout: the overall size, including the fiddle yard to the right is 4 sq. ft - fitting Carl Arendt's guideline for a self-contained micro-layout;

Edgeworth: the design is based on the GWR Branch Line Terminus built as a BRM project: Edgeworth (selective compression reduces the goods yard from 2 sidings to 1).**

Photo 1 is an overall view of the proposed layout - the baseboard is a very traditional 4' x 1' piece of Sundeala Board I have to hand.  The shaded area will be cut from the board and used to lengthen the single track fiddle yard: total length 5'6".  Photo 2 shows the Billy Bookcase scenic area from above, and the buildings needed.  I'll be using the same Ratio Station Kit as used on Edgeworth, and already have an Engine Shed (Skaledale) and Signal Box (Metcalfe) to work with.  Edgeworth only used three buildings, and they are in the same position.  Photo 3 is an overall view.  I even have spare room to lengthen the run-round loop by shortening the fiddle siding slightly.***

The main change from Edgeworth (other than compression) is to move the viewpoint to the other side - I think this is just because I'm left-handed, so it'll be more convenient.  The final name will be something different, but "Short Edge" seemed more positive than "Edgeworth-less."  Progress won't be quick - I have limited time and several other kits to build in the pipeline too, but I'm looking forwards to this and will post updates on RMweb when I get going.

______________________

* true to prototype?

** the original plan came from C.J.Freezer's book of 60 Small Layout Plans, and is based on Seaton in Devon.  There's a second connection with Cyril Freezer - on page 95 of his 1993 book on Operating Model Railways, there's a picture of a very compressed version of Ashburton GWR Terminus attributed to one E.T.D. Revill, which gave me the idea to compress Edgeworth.

*** The metric length of a Billy Bookcase is 76cm - if I trim my scenic area to 75cm, the overall length grows just enough to fit 10x pieces of standard geometry Setrack

Am also enjoying progress on Marmalade Wharf too of course: looking very good so far,

On 18/04/2019 at 09:06, ModellerChris said:

If I had a pound for every time I did that...!

 

I've decided that, rather than rush in, when I get an idea I'll jot it down. I'll add it to the pot of ideas and then see if it stays with me enough to want to do it. I reckon that the one I really want to build will be the idea I keep going back to. Might be worth trying?

Of all the ideas I've picked up from RMweb so far this is one the wisest pieces of advice I've come across - thank you.

Further to the posts from the Bank Holiday weekend, I consulted a Dr of Civil Engineering about foundations for tall buildings above shallow rail lines before going further.  Their advice is as follows:

"The trains do run in the basement, like an underground carpark. Sometimes, they insert the piles first then dig down around them so they effectively become columns over the upper part and piled foundations over the lower part.  They build ground beams linking the tops of the piles and a cast a floor slab with holes in it so then they dig down to make the basement (for cars or trains!) lifting the soil through the holes left in the floor slab and lowering excavators through to dig  deeper. More slabs are cast as they work down if it is a multi story basement. Those holes can then become escalator or lift shafts/atriums (or atria) etc.  It is called top-down construction and allows you to build up and down at the same time!  Your mock up is the right idea, but you may need beams (i.e. thicker sections) in addition to your floor slab to stop the ground floor slab bending."

With regards to older buildings (such as I'm looking at in New York), the approach was to start with the tracks in a hole and build up.

___________________________

Well, I've certainly learned something! (My apologies to those with experience of underground lines, for whom all this may well be rather obvious).  In terms of the model: Step 3 - "Supporting columns between the levels," represents what would have been the most critical part of the real build.  I'll need the rolling stock I've been offered to check vertical clearances under the beams I'll have to add in, as well as for platforms.  It'll be a couple of months before I receive the passenger car kits, confirming a pause in this project, probably until late Summer.  In the meantime, I've another idea for a micro-layout ready to lauch, but that's another story...

Another cracking issue from the look of it: 148 pages of stunning quality once again (+ DVD) is quite fantastic*, and it looks like there are some compelling articles to read (the test for me is if a topic that's not a personal interest still grabs my attention - the quarry features do that this month, based on an early perusal of the digital edition).

We often read comment on how R-T-R models have leaped in quality in recent years, I think we should give credit to the advances in publishing in the same way - from where I sit the team have done a fantastic job once again.  Quite how I'll find time to read it all - and attempt any modelling - before 4-weeks has flown past again is the challenge.  Thank you to all.

__________

*The adverts are worth reading too, I find.

4 hours ago, Duncan. said:

Hi, Have I missed something, can you tell me please what layout(s) are being made?

Cheers

Hi Duncan, 5 layouts are shown on page 35 of the May BRM, with Backroom Boffin's spectacular Hotwells concept selected as the winner.  Hobb's Bridge Goods is one of the others featured.

The introduction at the top of the article explains this is the result of the layout planning challenge - and separate to the layout building challenge Phil Parker is engaged in: it doesn't indicate which N scale plan he will be tackling (it could be another one altogether).

Designs for the first two of the trilogy of layouts appeared on pages 44-46 of the Spring 2019 BRM, for models in 4mm scale and OO9.  Two alternative plans were suggested for the 4mm scale / OO model, and it's worth checking out the Piercebridge MIll thread here on RMweb if you've not seen it, where the original planner (Cornamuse) is now building the other idea Phil looked at but didn't go for.

Hope this helps, and that Hobb's Bridge Goods is coming along well.

Keith.

On 11/03/2019 at 23:50, BackRoomBoffin said:

Ok, so having dared myself and drawn attention, here goes.

 

The protypical location is Hotwells station, a GW / Midland terminus on the Bristol Port and Pier Railway (closed c1920 to build a new road). This was a tramway / railway / ferry interchange in the Avon Gorge, with 1 platform, directly below the Clifton Suspension Bridge. More info about which here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotwells_railway_station

 

A map can be seen here: http://maps.bristol.gov.uk/kyp/?edition=

(this is a historic mapping site for Bristol City Council … type 'Portway' into search bar at top left, and look for a map using the options at right that will show you sometime between 1890 and 1920 … you'll see two different track plans).

 

http://maps.bristol.gov.uk/knowyourplace/media/her_pc/18833.JPG

 

 

It's taken me a while to get this 'right', but it combines some of the features discussed above - slanting the angle to get more in, not having a side access through the 'bookshelf wall', and 'less is more' (only four points and a cross over). But if one did model this location as accurately as possible, you'd need 2-3ft of height for the cliffs!

 

I've called this compressed plan 'Goram's Hollow', adapting the name of St Vincent's Rocks, which is the name for the cliff formation overlooking the site. (Goram and Vincent were two legendary local giants).

 

I'd suggest the tramline at front is unpowered.

Worthily chosen as the top pick in the May BRM (digital subscription edition out now). Delighted to see some of the other excellent N-gauge suggestions also given due prominence (and surprised to see one of my own 4mm scale ideas included too). I'm afraid it looks as if the gremlins might have struck during magazine production, as the design for this top idea appears to have been matched with text for another (also very good) concept by the same contributor.

Mind you, given the complexity of modern publishing, drawing on so many different digital sources, the occasional slip up is bound to happen - I wouldn't fancy trying to pull together a magazine every four weeks.

Anyway, well done to the challenge winner, and to the BRM team for another stunning edition of the magazine.

58 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

And the winner is:

 

Oh Bullocks

by @MAP66

 

 

A worthy winner - well done.

Thanks to Phil for running the challenge too.

My next step is to break down the build into stages.  This is partly as I don't have a dedicated space for modelling,* but is also a practical way to get me building.  I've identified six stages to tackle:

1 - Lower level track and platforms

2 - Union Station Building

3 - Supporting columns between the levels

4 - Cityscape backscene

5 - Platform detailing, including the crucial means of passenger access between levels (proposed use of Scalescenes Escalator)

6 - Street level detailing, including streetcar tracks (inset).

There will be a pause now - probably for a few months.  Step 1 will depend on rolling stock I've been offered to check platform heights and clearances: my experience of this kind of US commuter line is that high-level platforms are normal.  Looking at the station kit suggests Step 2 will also take me a while:

It's a kit that's been around for some years: there's an insert with the instructions with a Fax number to use if any parts are missing.  A photo of a completed model was on the front of Model Railroader quite recently though, in October 2018.  Building the station makes sense so I can work out the positioning of the supporting columns in Step 3.

Having put together a 1:1 cardboard mock up, the existential question is whether it looks OK (or not) that the terminal building runs lengthwise over the tracks, rather than being end on.  My mind is telling me it should be at right angles over the tracks, but there isn't space on the bookshelf for that.

__________________________________________

* while this can be a disadvantage - I often have 20 minutes spare where I could do something productive if it was all laid out, the flip-side is that I'm thinking in terms of micro-layouts and dioramas I might actually be able to try building.  Having done a quick audit of my ideas pipeline, I now have plenty of micro-layouts I could start using kits and bits I've collected, and I may make a start on one (or more) of those as well.

This is amazing! The video link shows just what you've achieved, and a genuine prototype model to boot.

This is a wonderful model of a light railway station - a good track plan well executed in my book.  The photos look lovely, the kind of model I hope it will be a joy to exhibit and share with others.  Could I just ask about the origins of the station building - I looked back over the thread but didn't spot a reference to it's source?  I did however notice how quickly this has come together: two months - wow!  Thanks, Keith.

I'm not an expert, but with a little bit of free time this afternoon, I've done a quick internet search that suggests some of the upper level platform tracks at New York's Grand Central appear to be only about 20' below street level (or, more correctly: some of the streets - and city blocks - were built only 20' or so above the upper level tracks when the present terminal station was constructed).  If this is correct, realism will be established by the more careful positioning of the support columns between the levels - many more will be needed after all, but the model can still be viable as a small cross-section of the city.

One major area of deviation in my module from the layout at Grand Central (as the station I'm mainly referencing) is the placement of my terminal building directly above the tracks on my model, rather than to the side, as is more conventional for a terminus.  This is a simple necessity given the constraints of the bookshelf vs the size of the station building - if "Rule No. 1" for effective micro-layouts could be said to be "less is more" (as demonstrated by many fine examples here on RMweb of course), then I realise I'm not making life easy for myself with this project, particularly as a very inexperienced modeller, but I could equally end up with something quite visually interesting if I get it right.

In terms of era / rolling stock, I've been offered some uncompleted passenger car kits - how many or of what type I don't yet know, but my plan is that they'll be used to define the era when I find out more.  At the pace I can work, there's no rush.

Progress on Union Station: an upper level has been added, showing the sheer size of the terminal building (a kit I've long wanted to build, mainly for that reason).  A city backscene goes round the three rear sides of this bookcase diorama, and streetcar tracks (which would be inset) are to the left of the station.

The upper level rests on protruding lower level walls, including the central platform support – my memory of the stations in New York is there are more columns at platform level than I’m used to in the UK, which the central supporting line imitates.  The mock-up seems stable enough not to need supports getting in the way along the front: they’re assumed to be in front of the module edge.  This makes viewing - and moving rolling stock - easier.

There is a rather important issue though – my buildings have no foundations!  At nearly a foot high already, adding height to the module will skew the proportions of the model and make it appear more vertical / narrow than I want, but some thickness is needed between the levels to be even remotely believable.  I wonder what the minimum I could reasonably get away with will be?

Hi there. If you have access to the carendt.com website then page 28 August 2004 of the Small Layout scrapbook has a number of ideas, including OO gauge.

I never got beyond lining my box with hardboard before moving house a month later, but others reached completion and were very good. Hope it helps, Keith.

2 hours ago, marc smith said:

Funnily enough, when I saw the post about the layout on an Ikea Bookcase, it reminded me of a plan from Iain Rice's book about Urban Layout plans
He uses a bookcase, or rack of 3 narrow shelves, and builds a separate scene of one cohesive design on each shelf. Each "unit" has an entry point at one end,
and using shelving brackets attached to the wall, he designed a fiddle cassette which you can left from one level, upwards or down to the next.....

This idea interested me a lot, and I think a bookcase could form the ideal basis for the scenic sections.
I think the title of the layout is "Virtua In Industria" - or something like that.
I'll watch this build with keen interest, as I may decide on something similar to Iain's plan in future - it's a great space saver

Marc, thanks for the post and interest in the build.  It'd be interesting to see if anyone has built (and recorded) a version of Rice's tri-level plan - I'm sure some will have tried something along those lines?

From a passenger line perspective, there could be up to four levels in one setting (before even moving onto the next shelf to start again): an underground or subway line, then mainline platforms below street level (New York's Grand Central Terminal even has two levels here), then street level tramway or similar and finally an elevated line (often found in the UK raised on the familiar arches).  I'm not that adventurous though.

I'm afraid progress will be quite a bit slower than on many of the impressive micro-layouts on RMweb, but I will update the thread as I can.  Keith.

Doing some catching up on my reading in this part of RMweb so I'm a bit late to this thread, but just wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading about this/these one/two layout(s)/modules - some really impressive and very effective modelling.

One of the issues I need to work round is the need to find some permanent storage space - the principal storage room where I live is a cellar which is a bit damp. Not ideal, but everything is kept in plastic crates - mostly large RUB ones. I'd not thought of them for layout storage, but this modular approach opens up numerous possibilities - the stackable nature of the boxes is a useful feature.

Although my interest in designing micro-layouts dates back fifteen years, to ideas Carl Arendt kindly included on his website, I never got round to building any of them.  With only a few kits and a Cakebox model behind me, a bookshelf now seems massive - if you've seen videos of Vic Smith's City Edge Layout you'll know what I mean!

It therefore seems sensible to follow the approach that worked with the Cakebox, and I've put together the first part of a very rough cardboard mock-up of my diorama.  This will help me work out what I'll need to do at each stage.  The photos just show the lower - trackside - level of the module, with platforms and an escalator.  I now need to add the upper level with the station building, street scene and backdrop to complete the picture.

The panoramic shots really show the spaciousness of the layout, a real lesson in effective micro-layout design. I've only been to Lincolnshire a couple of times, but this looks just right to me.

Could I ask what track you've used, esp. turnouts: although I'm guessing they must be small radius they don't look too sharp and add to the feeling of space? Thanks.

On 29/03/2019 at 08:14, Jerry1975 said:

Hi Everyone.

 

Not much done on this lately as other things getting in the way also a new project I'm building is taking up some of my time too.

 

I will hopefully be getting back to this over the weekend.

 

Jerry.

Is this still progressing, or is Ynysbwl now the focus? I think this is a great model - looks worth the effort on the engine shed roof as you look down into the box (so it's first in the line of sight). Excellent use of the space.

Fantastic - looking forwards to seeing more as the layout progresses. Keep up the good work.