Keith Addenbrooke

Day 82 - Finishing Touches The final job is to paint the exposed card corners. Just in case I mess it up (spill paint, squash the model, etc...), I’ve taken some publicity shots this morning of the otherwise finished model, including the obligatory proof it does not exceed 8” square. I’m not sure the blue backscene actually worked (see the shadows) so I dispensed with it. The two travellers also appeared in my 2019 diorama and are pre-painted HO figures I was given some years ago, bringing the final total cost of the project to zero: Compared to the published plans, I did have to shorten the loading dock to fit, but other than that and the short train order board arms it is a scale model. So there it is, my first scratchbuild. Thank you for all the encouragement - I’ve learned a lot. Planning is already underway for my next adventure, but how to finish here? Well, it is called “HO me Depot”... Take care, Keith.

Day 75 - The moment of truth! Scenery is one area of Railway Modelling I’ve never got to grips with (it’s not the only one). Some years ago now I was given some tubs of old ‘flock powder’, and while not “rubbish” as such, they were free. One of the tubs was labelled earth: I’d cut a channel in the cork base to lower the track into the ‘ground’ (so I actually have cork roadbed everywhere except under the track now!). A bit of paint to represent oil stains on the track, and PVA to glue down my earth and it looks like this: Comparing it with photos I have, I think this looks OK. Bit embarrassing really - to discover after 40 years of avoiding scenic modelling that it is well worth trying, even for me, and quite fun (at least at this very basic level, and in an 8” square). So the moment of truth arrives - a first look at the model nearing completion: It took several goes to get the Train Order Board to stick to the base - though it helped when I finally realised I needed to use polystyrene cement, not card glue, for this bit. If the glue holds, all that remains to do is to paint over the exposed card on the corners of the Depot - and take some decent photos if I can. Keith.

Following @mdvle’s lead, I’ve also copied my post from the Track Plan thread for general reference below too. For a thread on Passenger Operations I’d add that I’ve found Andy Sperandeo’s “MR Guide to Passenger Equipment and Operation” (Kalmbach 2006) to be very helpful if you can get a copy - more detail than some Kalmbach / MR Guides, plus some good examples of passenger consists that might be suitable for modelling (some reprinted from Model Railroader magazine I think). As a generalisation, I find older books and magazine articles tend to assume passenger operation in a way more contemporary ones may not - simply reflecting the prototype world around them of course. “I have some old 85' cars that need at least 22" (ideally 24") or the trucks catch on the central spine of the underbody. You'd also need to consider the couplers - whether truck mounted or body mounted they'll need to be able to reach. I've been given a mix of full length and 'shortie'passenger cars: the problem with the shortie is that freight cars have got longer since it was made, so it looks even less realistic now. I always find @mdvle’s knowledge of products and advice to be very helpful - if you don't have anything specific in mind all I can say is it may be difficult. Keith.” Compared to modelling UK passenger operations, I’d suggest that fitting in a passenger Depot can be easier (platforms are not a universal requirement) but the length of the passenger cars is the challenge.

I have some old 85' cars that need at least 22" (ideally 24") or the trucks catch on the central spine of the underbody. You'd also need to consider the couplers - whether truck mounted or body mounted they'll need to be able to reach. I've been given a mix of full length and 'shortie'passenger cars: the problem with the shortie is that freight cars have got longer since it was made, so it looks even less realistic now. I always find @mdvle's knowledge of products and advice to be very helpful - if you don't have anything specific in mind all I can say is it may be difficult. Keith.

Day 68 - It’s a sign! The cork sheet I need for ground cover has spent a week under four heavy books being flattened, and has now been stuck down (and put back under the books to set). While the glue dries... Station signs were displayed on the end walls of Depots, and featured a Santa Fe logo above individual letters for the Station name. I scanned a Santa Fe logo from a back-issue magazine of the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modelling Society in America I was kindly sent a couple of weeks ago, then reduced it to size in PowerPoint, along with letters for a sign. I made four sets so I’d have a couple of spares and stuck them on a card backing from a cereal packet for rigidity: I decided I wouldn’t be able to cut out the bits ‘within’ each letter. At this point I am glad I didn’t stick with the original name of the Station : the ten letters of P R O T E C T I O N (x2) would have been quite a job! In other news, I found a box with a blue interior in the recycling - so I have a simple L-shaped photo backscene if I need it.

Day 62 - are we nearly there yet? My plan for this weekend had been to work on the Cakebox baseboard. Looking at photos, the cork I’d originally planned to use as roadbed would have raised the track too high, so instead I’m going to stick some (very) old cork underlay across the whole board, with a cutout for the building. It’s actually cork pieces stuck to a very sticky base and is double sided (?). I’ve no idea when it was bought - I was only three on Decimalisation day, but although there is a 50p price label on it there is also a product price of 2/- ! Not sure if it counts as rubbish, but it’s certainly something from the spares box now. What I’d forgotten was it would need time to flatten, and as I write it is still underneath several very large books for my work! So, back to the details. I wasn’t sure I’d be able to safely make a doorknob pushing pins through several layers of painted card so instead I’ve made vertical door handles from tiny bits cut from a staple and stuck on with solvent free adhesive: I was sent a Santa Fe publication this week which showed additional detailing on bay windows, and chimneys with an extra wide top but without a chimney pot as standard, so there was a bit more card to mark up and paint: The next task is a train order board. I couldn't find a suitable photo of a Santa Fe example, so have based mine on this one: Cumbres Section House / Signal. Train Order Boards were positioned outside the Station Agent’s Bay windows to tell approaching trains in the pre-radio era if there were any Train Orders to be collected (that had been telegraphed to the Agent). Most of the photos I can find are silhouetted against the sun, so I’m not sure of the colours. I’m also a bit red / green colour blind, so spent a while working out which ‘lens’ to paint red, and which one was green. I added a dab of translucent metallic paint to try and make these look a bit like proper lenses, but I’m not sure it shows. The mast is a bit of spare spruce from a plastic kit and I sandwiched two pieces of card together first before cutting out the shapes. The arms look a bit short, but will mainly be viewed side on when I’m finished, so would be more noticeable if they were absent: Next up is the track. I’ve not got much Code 83 with proper spiked ties, so am using a bit of OO gauge Code 100 instead. One of the jobs I enjoyed least when track laying for my Uphill micro-layout GW BLT last year was widening the sleeper-spacing on Setrack, but for American HO I have the opposite problem: I need the sleepers closer together. Fortunately I had kept the sleepers I cut out for Uphill, so had some spares ready to stick back on. You’ll notice the track in the photo is slightly bent - it was originally a curved piece of Setrack I tried straightening out by cutting the webbing along the rails, to overcome the supply shortage in track at the moment! It didn’t work, but gave me some rubbish track to use here: So that’s where I’m up to now. I may not get any more done next weekend, and I’ve left touching up the corners with paint until everything else is done, as the green and yellow gloss both take ages to dry, and I need to make a Depot sign (the name and a Santa Fe logo). It is the thing I’m most likely to forget, but it’s nearly there now. Keith.

Thank you to all who’ve responded: all good stuff and very helpful. For anyone similarly interested in finding out more about HOn30, one thing I’ve found helpful is to try and remember to search online for both HOn30 (with a letter ‘O’ - the usual version) and H0n30 (with a number ‘0’). For European models H0e is conventional, but ‘HOe’ appears. ‘HOn2 1/2’ is less common now - harder to type on a computer - but is still around. After doing a bit of thinking, I’ve bought a copy of Tony Koester’s Kalmbach Guide to Narrow Gauge Modelling. It doesn’t set out to be the most detailed “how-to” guide, but is written from the point of view of a standard gauge modeller exploring the world of narrow gauge. As this is where I’m coming from, it’s pitched exactly right for me. Reading that is my next step.

Thank you - I don’t know enough to know if a 3’ car (passenger or freight) would have the same / similar prototype dimensions as a 2’ car - ie: if you could take an HOn3 car and replace the trucks so it would run as HOn30. I suspect it would look rather too big behind an HOn30 locomotive? Of course there are modellers who properly re-size rolling stock, but I’ll hazard a guess it isn’t often done with items as valuable as Blackstone Models products?

As you indicate, very nice, and if I’ve remembered the Yen : £ exchange correctly rate the prices look reasonable too.

Good point, thank you - the Merseyside and South Lancs Group mentioned by @stan williams above is part of the Society. Prior to lockdowns I wasn’t a member of any clubs or societies, as the combination of my job and family life filled my time. I have appreciated the help and encouragement of RMwebbers over the past year, so I should definitely think about it: there are a number of good societies covering my areas of interest.

Thank you for this - it’s good advice, but sums up my dilemma quite nicely: Basically, any undiscovered skills I might have currently remain untried and untested: I’m only now having a first attempt at scratchbuilding a small structure, for example - and haven’t used a soldering iron for over forty years. Most of my posts on RMweb have been about research or planning (and appreciating the inspirational modelling there is on here). I have a number of simple standard gauge rolling stock projects to undertake, mainly fitting couplers and trucks, and some repainting. These would be very useful skills for NG modelling. I also have a couple of layouts / dioramas to build. So by the time I might have more funds, and be ready to take an additional step into active NG modelling, I’m beginning to think finding what I’d want to get me started may have become very difficult: the kind of ranges I was looking at in HOe ten years ago seem less easy to find in the UK than they did then (and prices have risen a lot). I read recently of an HOn30 modeller who does several daily searches on eBay, which I’ve never used, and I’ve seen a very long thread on the NGRM Forum about eBay prices. I realise this is not unique to NG, and I also thought carefully before going into US HO. For me personally, an attraction of American NG is that common-carrier passenger cars and boxcars look to me rather like scaled down versions of their standard gauge cousins. This means a longer train will fit into the same space, and buildings which have been scaled back for modelling may start to look bigger again. I know some NG modellers are attracted by the differences to standard gauge trains and operations, or to save space - I’m more the other way round. So I’ll keep collecting advice and ideas (with thanks for the pointers so far) and I’ll do some research to refine my questions.

Hi Stan, thank you - that’s really helpful. (I’ll send a separate PM with my details, but wanted to acknowledge the offer on the thread). Appreciated, Keith.

Thank you - from what I’ve read the modern (2010 onwards?) revival of Roco Minitrains has seen much greater reliability than the earlier versions? The Forney locos look good to me for Maine 2’ modelling - the Fiddletown and Copperopolis liveried coaches are interesting: freelance as you say but with that interesting ‘backstory.’ I’ve seen @PaulRhB’s thread for an F&C layout, and I think he says on it they’re not producing any more of those models - a good example perhaps of the short-run models we now see (I don’t know Paul personally, but he’s also contributed helpfully to my Standard Gauge US research on my parallel HO thread).

This is a really nicely composed diorama - doesn’t look at all cramped. Really like the details you’ve added to the Cottage and the way they’ve been done.

Day 55 - no longer a biscuit box I haven’t quite managed to finish the building part of the diorama by the end of February, but I have managed to glue together and fasten the end roof brackets I marked out and painted on a bit of biscuit box yesterday: That just leaves the side (angled) brackets to cut out, glue together and fasten on, the tips of the card to be painted (and the corner joints of the building) and the chimney to glue down. I realise I’ve posted more detail than I needed to this weekend, sorry, but if I make another building I’ll be referring back to this thread to remind me of each step I took, so I hope that’s OK. Take care and stay safe, Keith.

Does this mean the ramp will get steeper...?

I’m sure this type question comes up regularly, so I should first ask the forgiveness of dedicated members of the Narrow Gauge Modelling community, who no doubt keep patiently reprising the answers each time a novice like me comes along. As my thread title indicates, I’m tentatively interested in finding out more about American H0n30 modelling in the UK? With a limited budget and other interests I’m also actively pursuing, I’m wondering how much is ‘out there’ in HOn30 these days, noting the current wide range of models available in OO9? I know there’s some amazing HOn3 equipment - and great layouts - but my budget wouldn’t stretch that far even if it were my only interest, hence my wondering about HOn30: Are there some inspirational layouts around to look at - I’ve not found much yet, but I may be looking in the wrong places? What are the pitfalls (ie: are there compatibility issues between today’s loco mechanisms and older controllers - or vice versa)? Related to this, how integrated are other features of older products with new ones - eg: couplers, wheel sizes, track standards? Is there a DCC assumption (I think that would rule me out for several reasons, to be honest)? Like many others, I grew up in the 1970s / early 1980s with a variety of interests across railway modelling I’m now returning to, in my case after a change in vocation which saw my primary interest (not railway related) become my job some years ago. I’ve had a lot of help and encouragement planning and progressing my standard gauge interests in American HO Santa Fe modelling and Great Western Branch Lines, but I only managed a very brief dabble with some European HOe 10 years ago. At that time all the buildings, people and vehicles I had were in 4mm scale for my OO modelling. I found the smaller size of the HOe rolling stock accentuated the scale difference too much, so I traded it in for more Great Western Branch line stuff (I am quite happy with the cliches I grew up with). Three things have really sparked this exploration and prompted this question now: My long-term HO Santa Fe project has started much better than I expected (helped by the advice and kindness of RMwebbers), and I’m ready to look for the HO accessories I’ll need to go with my first Santa Fe layout several years ahead of expectations. I’ve become very conscious one thing that changed in the hobby while I wasn’t looking has been the shift towards short-term product runs and availability: if you don’t get it while you can, it’s gone! Things I saw just a few years ago have already vanished. The amount of HOn2 1/2 that I remember from years ago (as it was known then) doesn’t seem to have persisted. Is this correct? On30 seems to be doing well - perhaps a function of the reliability issues I recall with 1970s N gauge (where my modelling began)? If I am to add some Narrow Gauge to my list of projects, it would need to be in 3.5mm scale for it to happen. I’ve read the discussion on “American outline OO9” a couple of pages back, but was still left with these questions, so I hope it’s OK to ask afresh (an internet search tends to point me to American Forums from a few years ago reviewing the difference between HOn3 and HOn30). There have also been changes to import rules this year of course. I suppose my answer to the other obvious question: “Why not UK OO9?” is that, while I think its great - and hunt out the Narrow Gauge layouts when I can get to exhibitions - a standard gauge branch line ticks that box for me when it comes to model layout building. I’m in no rush, and have plenty to be getting on with, but just wondered if there were any thoughts. Thank you, Keith. _______ Edit: I should perhaps acknowledge the gauge issue with HOn30, being 2mm too wide for the 2’ prototypes I think are usually modelled - makes a change from the reverse problem with OO.

Day 54 pm - a sunny day The window where I left the paint to dry catches the sun, so although the gloss-painted brackets won’t be dry until tomorrow it’s been possible to make up some time after lunch with the other bits: The published plan doesn’t show a ‘chimney pot’ so I made one as short as possible using the ‘Metcalfe’ method of tightly rolling some painted paper around a cocktail stick, then cutting off just a short bit to use. I have seen a photo of a similar Depot with a chimney like this. At normal viewing distance I don’t see the wobbly bits in the window frames - given my lack of experience, and use of rubbish as a material, I’ve still exceeded all my expectations so far. I’m also grateful for everyone who’s had a read of this build thread - I am very much finding my way at each step. Once again, thank you.

Having watched the video link posted by @long island jack, I’ve had another look at the photos on the Kalmbach book: The principal locos of the Graham County were Shay locomotives Nos. 1925 / 1926. The video indicates these did have tenders, but with the gearing extended to the tenders. It is probably #1926 in the photo posted above by @DanielB A different loco, #1923 was used for a while and was a two truck engine (with no tender), as there’s a clear side-on photo of title. Apologies for my confusion earlier.

Day 54 am - Attention to detail Any collection of post-Christmas card in our house is likely to include the ubiquitous Family Circle biscuit box, and I’m using one to add some roof details to finish the building off, specifically the brackets used to support the roof overhangs, ridge tiles, a bit more trim on the bay window and painted undersides to the roof overhangs. I’m also making a chimney, from some darker cereal box card. This morning has been about marking out and painting components before cutting them out - hopefully tomorrow once the paint is dry: I’ve cut out the triangle openings in the brackets now as I found it was easier to make the small openings first when I did the windows. If I were making a kit, this part (creating components) would be done for me, saving a lot of time, although I did enjoy the biscuits...

The Graham County was included in Kalmbach’s 1978 “More Railroads you can Model.” There are a couple of pictures in the article showing engines pulling trains bunker first, but no references I can see in the text (I’ve just had a quick skim through). The steam locos were all geared Shay locos by the look of it. The photos aren’t entirely clear to me, and I don’t know much about Shays, but I think the gearing extends beneath the coal bunker / water tank in all cases. Some Shays weren’t tender engines. The track layout diagrams suggest there was a small Wye at the terminus, but not at the junction with the Southern, so turning might have been an issue anyway. Edit: see also additional post below after watching video in @long island jack’s post that follows this one.

I would make a distinction between ‘a fiddle yard’ and ‘staging loops’, with the plan you’re sharing looking more like staging to me. In a ‘fiddle yard’ hands-on time will be spent rearranging trains, and I’d agree that I’d rather not use up operating time driving a fiddle yard if there is an alternative. The earliest reference I have to ‘staging’ is in an American Kalmbach book first published in the 1940s that shows a track plan with a double-ended yard part way round the layout where trains can be paused to wait their turn in the main Station - it is a passive means of managing the problem of a mainline that has been unavoidably shortened, and the yard was in the open. That particular layout had a stub terminal off a continuous run, with a Wye to get in and out, so the problem of reversing trains to return them to the terminus did not arise. Another alternative is only to have as much rolling stock as the layout can accommodate, which is how I think our forebears could most easily avoid this issue. The reversing loop would still be needed - the staging sidings are for our ‘excess’ stock.

Hi Ian, I don’t think I’ve contributed to this thread before, but I’ve been following with interest for a while after coming across it several times while browsing. Really enjoyed the video - maybe it’s lockdown, or watching too many model / prototype videos too close together, but I got quite a surprise when the doors to railbus didn’t open to let ‘us’ get on. This all looks like great fun - do keep it up.

The only real difference I can see is the shadow on the platform underneath the awning - “without” it is quite a bit darker under there, especially at the front where the people are. On my iPad I can’t see anything different on the engine (where I would naturally look first). Do you have any prototype photos from this angle to compare?

Hi Rob, I just happen to be online at the moment: I like the pictures - would certainly have a “Wow!” factor for an eight-year old and the sidings make good use of the space, especially in area C. The turntable is accessible - as @Chimer had it but moved a bit nearer the edge (with just the last two engine sidings tucked under the high level) and the harder to reach area B is less busy. I see how you’ve resolved the problem of making the points “trailing” rather than “facing” - by going for right-hand running as on the original plan. I hadn’t thought of that as a solution, but why not? If anyone questions this (it is a necessary compromise with this plan), then Rule 1applies. I think at this point I’d be wanting to press on - as you say, leave deciding where to put the official station till later*. ______________ *In my experience, kids will often decide there is a station wherever they want to stop a train.