Mark L Horstead

After reviewing, at a more leisurely pace, my initial questions and the answers received, I now have the following questions and observations: Would/could BR-pattern EMUs have run through Beckenham Junction? Despite my preference for Bulleid-pattern EMUs, the Bachmann 2EPB would be the quickest and simplest option. I've previously gone through the applicable threads elsewhere here to investigate the possibility of splicing an extra couple of coaches in between, and recently received Bulleid Coaches In 4mm Scale from Stella & Rose's Books in Tintern, Monmouthshire as it was mentioned here and appears to be the best possible guide. If I remember correctly from my readings here, I may have to sacrifice a third coach to achieve the correct lengths of the other two so would be forced to build more four-car sets to use up the leftovers. Has anybody seen/tried the Rue d'Etropal 3D-printed 4SUB? I just stumbled upon that site a few hours ago. A four-car set would be a bit pricey, but if one does not overspend on one's hobbies, what good are they? Paint might be a problem. I have an ancient tin of Humbrol BR Blue that sounds liquidy enough, but cannot get other British paints besides Humbrol here and I'm more used to acrylics. Humbrol Acrylic BR Diesel Blue RC411 appears to be the correct BR Blue, but "Diesel" makes me a little unsure. Regarding steam on the Golden Arrow, 70014 Iron Duke was mentioned as one of two locomotives so used in one response. The other, according to SREmG, was 70004 William Shakespeare and that would be my first choice, given my connection to Stratford, Ontario, home of the Stratford Shakespearean Festival. I'll continue to dig for information about which Bulleid Pacifics would have been used. (After writing that and scrolling around looking for replies that I may have missed, I see that RFS supplied the information about William Shakespeare - belated thanks, and my grandmother used to take me shopping in Lewisham although I cannot remember what she wanted there that she could not get in Beckenham; I have two buses that will eventually be remarked for 54 and 227 routes.) Aside from a daily coal train that lasted much longer than I imagined, I gather that there were no other goods trains through Beckenham Junction other than the occasional diversion between 1962ish and 1972, yes? What commodities would have (likely) been moved by such diverted trains, aside from box vans? Would wooden open wagons still be common? I have an SR pillbox brake van on order and have about a half of a dozen assorted Parkside and Dapol kits as guinea pigs for various previously-unused weathering techniques possible with much more modern paints available now. Are drawings available of the station buildings and the last signal box available anywhere? Are aerial photographs available? I tried Britain from Above, with no luck. Ballast colour, beneath the grimy oil/sludge/tar coating? Regarding the "scenic break at the west end", that has been causing me some concern. Does anybody have any old newspaper clippings regarding the tectonic plate shift that moved the tunnel under Crystal Palace just far enough east for my purposes? Are there any photographs of the tunnel entrance at the east end? What are "ECS trains", as mentioned by Oldddudders? I've been building a list of manufacturers of all things, especially detailing parts, but not all parts are illustrated and I've yet to find time to plough through them all. There are some ornate curly cast-iron "brackets" on the exterior walls of the station buildings that support the platform canopy, as seen here. Does anybody produce anything similar in etched brass? That's it for tonight, and a really, really huge thanks to everybody who has answered so far.

Yes, but that's a bit of a cliche, like burning houses. I'd rather just have them blow through occasionally with no excuse or justification whatsoever. There will be some anachronisms because of my roughly ten-year period, and some licence taken, but I don't want to torture Rule 1 too much. I want to keep as much faith with prototype and period as possible/practicable. .

No apology necessary - I looked SLU up after seeing your previous response, and was a little surprised to actually find an answer that made sense. I initially thought that it might be a TOPS wagon designation. Roger Class 33s - more potential variety (and expense, but probably a trivial amount overall) and the shunting potential. The location of the switch to diesel power gives me a good idea of the end point for third-rail service into the yard - none at all. I had found one or two photographs of the coal concentration depot, but do not remember it from any of my trips back. Nor do I remember seeing any hoppers, ever. My memory of mineral wagons is most likely pre-emigration (1965). I'm not sure at all what I'll do about the yard. I may just base it on whatever photographs I might find (no luck so far, but I found a shot of the north side of the signal box online last night). It may have to be largely fictional. I like mineral wagons. And A4s (from grandfather-led visits to Mallard in its previous location). And Hymeks. And GWR pannier tanks. I'll run those only when nobody (knowledgeable) is looking. I promise.

I'm a bit short of breath, now, from trying to keep up with the explosion of replies. I wasn't expecting so much so soon. I'll go back through them later. Thanks, All.

I couldn't remember the name, just the pleasant experience.

Roger. Thanks.

The sremg.org and kentrail.org ones yes, the bloodandcustard.com ones no. Again, thanks.

Thank-you.

There was a model railway shop in West Wickham that I visited on one of my early trips back. I'm not familiar with 2-SAPs, but they entered service after my period of interest according to Wikipedia. I have nowhere near the space that I think that I'll need at present - or time or money - but hope to in another couple of years. I only remember seeing the up Arrow. I shall investigate the Night Ferry in the future. Thanks for all of that.

Most helpful, and appreciated, that. I'd guessed that a Class 73 would be the most suitable, and presume that there was no third rail service in the yard itself. "SLU" - Standard Length Unit? I bought The Railways of Beckenham a couple of years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I do, again vaguely, remember some steam engines leading Golden Arrow and that would have been early sixties. "MLV"? "TLV"? If any random electric locomotive could be used for Golden Arrow, may I presume that a higher standard of cleanliness was maintained then? Aside from roofs, I do not remember seeing much dirt on equipment. My intent for weathering on passenger equipment is just enough to show use. I've not really begun to look at goods stock from my period of interest, but I am hoping that there is a greater variety of dirt and deterioration. I just traced the route partway to Chatham. The only time that I'd gone in that direction was between Orpington and Beckenham in 1984 when I was back for my grandmother's funeral and was staying with relatives in Orpington. I'll be researching routes and associated platforms more in the future. "ECS"? I only remember going to Charing Cross once, likely during my 1972 trip back. I don't know why I went there. I was pretty sure that the trains that I rode to/from Victoria were eight-car, so I appreciate that confirmation. I'd guessed that the train's locomotive would have done the shunting, as it should have been a simple operation. I was hoping for an excuse for a Class 08 to show up there on occasion, as I've liked them ever since Duck and the Diesel Engine entered my early personal library but was not particularly optimistic. I do intend to depict at least a part of the yard. Thanks for all of that.

I've answered part of my own question from the Wikipedia Class 415 page: "However, on 23 March 1988, a woman was found murdered in a compartment EPB car on an Orpington/London Victoria working". I'd read that quite some time ago, but forgot until you prompted me. Did 4SUBs have a single buffer between coaches? I have another old and vague memory of seeing that at Beckenham Junction. I remember seeing non-stop EMUs with gangways whizzing through Beckenham Junction and was planning to research those later, so the 4CEP reference is definitely helpful. "Confusing". Yup. I'm still trying to straighten the geography in my mind. I only ever went anywhere by 54 or 227 bus, train, and, in London, the underground. Thanks tons.

My grandfather did take me to Victoria a few times. I have a fuzzy memory of Golden Arrow Pullmans, but even less of the locomotive present. Thanks.

Roger. Thanks.

They seem to be very neatly aligned, though, and with ballast heaped up a bit between them.

Thanks for the extremely speedy - and useful - reply. The Ratio model. appeared to be a likely candidate, but I'd not yet got around to a detailed comparison. Second question: What is the purpose of the two rails between the running rails on the down track? Third question: When was the bullhead rail replaced by flat-bottomed rail?

Thanks for that photograph. Memories... What would the best available model(s) be for depicting the footbridge? And of what material is the roof made?

Greetings, All I've been lurking on here, with some gaps, for the past two to three years, drinking in more knowledge than I could have imagined (but also forgetting much of it - steep learning curve for me). I was born in Beckenham, from where my family moved to Stratford, Ontario, Canada in 1965. I've had an interest in railways from as far back as I can remember, received my first Tri-Ang stuff (some of which I still have, somewhere) a few years before emigrating, and frequently walked with my grandfather to Beckenham Junction to watch trains pass through, including the Golden Arrow. Later, on trips back (1966, 1969, 1972, various times from 1986 to 1989 while stationed in Lahr, West Germany, and lastly 1995), I rode to London and back from there. I took many slides of Beckenham Junction on my 1972 trip, with the intent to model it someday, and recently rekindled that desire. My period of interest is early-1960s to 1972, with a mixture of green and blue. I've been gathering books of interest from Amazon, E-Bay, and other booksellers and have bought some old photographs from E-Bay and have a list of others to order later. I can buy four British model railway magazines here as well, although the virus has interrupted supply a few times so I should probably subscribe to one or two (BRM as my first choice of those). I've bought a few Parkside and Dapol kits and some other items, and put together a list of useful websites (including links to threads of interest here). I've found much useful information (and some not useful but still interesting) information and a few photographs and maps, but am lacking much of what I'd like to have. BUT The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know and the more questions arise. Many of those questions are trivial and basic for the bulk of members here. I've begun this thread to keep as many of my questions (and hopefully helpful answers to them and relevant useful discussion) in one place. If there is a better forum for this topic, I'd be happy for it to be moved. So, first questions, if I may... I remember Bulleid-pattern EMUs, which I believe were 4SUBs, but no BR-pattern EMUs. I didn't know the names or anything back then, but would have noticed differences and the Bachmann 2EPB looked "foreign". I've not seen photographs of BR-pattern EMUs running through Beckenham Junction. Would BR-pattern EMUs have run through Beckenham Junction? If so, that would make life easier, but I'd still like to model some Bulleid-pattern ones. From what I've seen here, no kits are currently available. Would 2/4EPBs have run through Beckenham Junction? I remember seeing Golden Arrow run through one morning behind a green Class 71 - and being disappointed that there was no steam locomotive on that day. Would any old Class 71 be so assigned, or were any kept extra-clean for that prestigious duty? If somebody could provide specific numbers, I'd appreciate that. In what shed(s) would they have been stabled? What steam locomotives might have led Golden Arrow in its last days of steam? I'm looking for specific names/numbers, if possible. Would any unrebuilt Bulleid Pacifics have still been around? I'm likely to take some modeller's licence in that regard, but would still like to know. Again, in what shed(s) would they have been stabled? I only ever remember seeing one goods train pass through, London-bound, behind a blue Class 71. Obviously, there would not have been much opportunity to do so with high-density commuter traffic, but what commodities would have been carried? Are drawings available of the station buildings and the last signal box available anywhere? I took lots of measurements as well as the slides on my 1972 trip, but have no idea what happened to those records. I can probably scale well-enough from photographs, but drawings would be of great help as well. Are any decent photographs of the goods yard on the north side available, especially any showing buildings? I vaguely remember seeing mineral wagons in there but do not know when the coal operation ceased. I am guessing that there was some other goods activity in there at some point as well. I am not averse to a few anachronisms to add flavour - and nobody who's likely to see it, presuming that I actually build it, would recognize any errors or deviations. What would have shunted such a modest yard (either/both steam or diesel)? What colour would ballast have been? All that I remember was that between the platforms, which was all oily black/dark brown. Would ballast outside of the platform area have been any less filthy? Thanks in advance to anybody able to provide information and direction. It will be deeply appreciated.