Halvarras

I've seen a colour photo of D1733 with the logos, looking dirty and on a freight. We all know how quickly locomotives could get dirty, even in summer, and I don't think it ran with logos in traffic for very long. I've seen it reported that the vinyl logos became a bit dog-eared and somebody eventually peeled them off and stuck them to the inside wall of Old Oak Common' s Pullman shed, although I find it hard to believe that a BR employee would take it upon themselves to do this without authorisation! But perhaps he had it. And perhaps somebody has photo-evidence..... OTTOMH I think both the photo and this story can be found in an article by Adrian Curtis in TRACTION 90 - sadly right now I can't check this.

At that time I was in west Cornwall surrounded by hydraulics! The first Class 47 I saw was D1677 Thor at Truro in autumn 67, after a slow start such visits picked up throughout 1968 but that's another story. Although there were no reported sightings of D1733 in Cornwall in Bsyp livery, it did show up not long after its overhaul. I've seen so many photos of this loco showing the white-on-red logos on one side and plain on the other that I began to wonder if it did in fact ever carry four logos, or just the two for publicity photos. Eventually in exasperation I put this to Russell Saxton who sent me six new photos and just ONE of these proved that it did!! It was also the only Class 47 to carry its works plates on the body sides. D1953-61 had them attached to the cab doors. Neil

Oooh, that's splitting hairs Mike, but yes OK, I'll grant you that one! Good job they didn't send D1734, the way things turned out..... I very nearly missed seeing D1733 in Bsyp, on my first tour around Crewe Works on 3/11/69 I found it bogieless on trestles. Somewhat bizarrely the loco which pioneered the new BR logo but ran without any for over 5 years emerged from this overhaul in standard blue but still without any logos! 1538 was likewise around the same time so maybe there were none on the shelf in the Paint shop when these two went through. Neil

I saw D3052 at Willesden in 1973, black with original BR crest, it was withdrawn before becoming 08039. However D3170 at Carlisle Kingmoor was renumbered 08105 apparently still in black livery. A photo appeared in an Ian Allan combo of the time but I'd love to see a colour pic.... Diesels built new in blue: Class 50 - D400-49 Class 47 - D1733 (XP64 Bsyp), D1953-61 Class 25 - D7660-77 (D7660/1 Bsyp) Class 20 - D8178-99/8300-27 These final 18 Class 25s displayed 4 different versions of blue livery, confusion reigned! (D7660 Bsyp with BR arrows below the driver's cab side windows only/D7661 Bsyp with 4 arrows/D7662-71 Bfye with 4 arrows/D7672-77 with 4 arrows moved down to be central on the cabsides with works plates on the cab doors). D7660-69 were also dual-braked from new, presumably to work Euston Mark 2a ECS stock. I can't say how long the two Bsyp ones lasted but I've never seen photos of them in early blue with full yellow ends. By the time I saw them in 1973 they were in standard BFYE with central BR arrows. If Crewe had switched its Class 47 build to blue at the same time as Loughborough, D1107-11 would (presumably) have looked like D1953-61. As MidlandRed says, all Class 73/1s were delivered in Bsyp - E6007-11 had the off-white stripe but no BR arrows, E6012/3 had both and E6014-49 had the arrows but no stripe. Since E6012 went into traffic in December 1965 this must surely have been the first BR loco of any type to display the new logo after D1733. I wonder if Lima realised the significance of their OO model?! By a twist of fate, Class 45 scored both the first and last diesels to receive TOPS numbers - 45101 (ex-D96) and 45071 (ex-D125) respectively, the latter due to a lengthy rebuild following collision damage. 45101-12 and 45001-3 received numbers on all four corners. Although it would appear that Class 45 was renumbered at random, this is true up to a point - once the full quota of fifty Class 45/1s had been completed, the remaining locos still requiring works attention were quickly renumbered into Class 45/0 in numerical order. I can't be specific at the moment as all my references are packed away for a house move but the Modern Locomotives Illustrated listings make for interesting reading at times!

I'd be interested in seeing a photo of 08840 in green if you can find it, as I have a part-finished model - all I keep finding is 08839 which didn't retain its ladders! LBRJ, I've always thought that this was the reason why D7029 & D7088 were sent to Laira Aug - Nov 67, the same months that D601/2/4 spent in South Wales. It was an opportunity to maintain local traction familiarity on Hymeks. I saw both working the down Cornish Riviera Express through Truro during that period, but I don't know what else they worked and have no idea if they ventured down any branch lines (but I'd love to know - Hymeks on the clays?!)

That's the one! Lovely camping weather too. With the loco being on this end this must have been the return working and 805 had just run round, ready to head downhill to Bodmin Road. D4008 followed about 90 minutes later. Exeter-Waterloo headcode up a Cornish backwater?! A couple of off-topic comments - the Hawksworth coach on the left must have been preserved saddle tank 1363's partner W7372W, one of a pair (the other being W7377W) of former WR Royal Train brake vehicles which only ever carried chocolate/cream livery, first GWR then BR(WR); and D4008 was later renumbered 08840 still in green and AFAIK still fitted with radiator ladders (I didn't notice such things at the time myself but I believe there's a photo in Bradford Barton' s Diesels in Action 5) - blue 08931 (ex-D4161) probably did too, and 08928 (ex-4158) certainly did as a couple of photos can be found on the above-mentioned CRS website, under Long Rock. I can't see the 805 photo there, but I'm a regular viewer and last weekend asked them to post a reminder that last Monday marked the 50th anniversary of the first Peak to Penzance, with my rather cr*p instamatic photo of D151 taken the following day.

I've seen a couple of similar photos of 824 Highflyer here, around this period (same livery). One day in early September 1971 805 Benbow propelled two red bogie rerailing vans all the way down to Wadebridge to rescue D4008 (whether the 08 or its wagons had fallen off is unknown). Presumably running round at Bodmin General had been skipped to save time. I witnessed this passing Polbrock Bridge, near Grogley Halt, as I just happened to be there for a week's youth club camp! A photo of 805 & vans at Bodmin General has come to light in recent years. (If this story sounds familiar you may have read it in Traction magazine's letters pages many years back, where a re-typing error had Benbow heading to Wenford Bridge instead of Wadebridge - a correction appeared in the following issue, but a Warship to Wenford certainly boggles the mind!!) This book sounds like one to add to my collection too.

Strange, isn't it, that although other Type 2s sported either an off-white stripe or lighter-green band on their dark green livery, the NBL Class 21 had neither and the Class 29 had both! Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but if the Class 29 conversions are listed in date order all of the blue ones were completed last, and all in 1967. These were therefore surely blue from conversion and never carried two-tone green (so Hornby's Chinese-produced D6119 was incorrect). I've certainly never seen photos of D6100/7/8/19/24/29/37 in ttg, and don't expect to. I really hope that Dapol will amend the full yellow ends on 6107 & 6112 before production, to have the slight vertical wrap-around onto the cabsides. D6129 is correct, I believe this kind of minimal yellow application was an Inverurie habit, also used on its early Class 20 blue repaints, as was the use of block serif numbers throughout 1967 (something it shared with Swindon). The availability of the Dapol Class 29 won't stop me finishing my Hornby/Bachmann model of D6123, which only requires painting. I made those revolving roof vents from Hornby coupling rivets set into the roof with a pair of those tiny Lima Mark 1 round coach buffers glued into those - about the only good use I've ever found for them!

That's the one, and yes you're quite right, I've checked again and it's east of Polperro tunnel, not Buckshead - my mistake. I also agree that in the c18 years between the two photos the farmhouse has had a lot of outbuildings added - assuming that it IS the same location of course, but I'm reasonably confident..... I remember being frustrated at the position of that telegraph pole, but if I took 3 steps backwards to try to shoot 'around' it I was too low, such was the steepness of the field at that point. Looking at the design of the side grilles I think the Warship is D600 or D601. But then it usually is in shots with the CRE headboard on display (weren't these the only two with the necessary brackets?)

A bit late to ask this now I suppose, but did you remember to remove the headboard brackets before adding the yellow panels? Unlike Westerns these were inside the yellow area on Hymeks so worth putting right. (D7000-33 affected, plus a few collision-damaged front-ends beyond these.) On the subject of D7017 in blue, it's often claimed that the depot repaint which saw it lose its cast numbers in favour of transfers on driver's corners only occurred in July 1974. Not so, I photographed it at Bristol so finished on 1/6/74, and a Railway Magazine of the time reported it passing Trowbridge in spotless condition in mid-May.

If you could see that it was unnamed, can you remember if it had BR arrows on the cabsides? If so it must have been 825. The others had the logo centrally below the (absent) nameplate.

I reckon this is just east of Buckshead Tunnel, near Tresillian (east of Truro) - the topography, curvature and short viaduct look right. I took a trio of photos here on a very hot 24/6/76 from the raised ground to the left of the train, and the isolated farmhouse on the hill in the distance looks to be visible in one of them (sorry, I am unable to post this pic at the moment but it can be found on the Cornwall Railway Society's website under Cornwall Galleries, Buckshead to St Austell including Goods Yard section - look for the D1041 shot and see what you think). I recall this day quite vividly because I was suffering sunburn after stupidly spending too long in the sea at Fistral the previous day!!

Many moons ago somebody suggested to me that D1001 started out with mid-grey roof hatches, which would have been unique on a maroon loco, but then it was the very first one. I've never seen a photo of it brand new, but I must admit that in a couple of shots from ground level not long after introduction the visible roof hatch areas between the patches of exhaust soot do appear to be grey. Discuss?! I also logged this loco as running without a number plate around 1974 (can't look up the date at the moment, notebooks packed away) but it must have regained it soon after. I've never seen any other reference to this so was I seeing things?

Around June 1974 five Class 101 3-car sets were transferred all the way from Scotland to Laira, where they received set numbers P800-804. P800/1, appearing to be in good condition, went to work in the South West in plain blue livery. However P802-4 turned up in blue/grey, AFAIK the first Met-Cams to carry this livery and before the DMU refurbishment programme had started, so they still featured headcode panels. My assumption has always been that, before moving on to Laira, these three sets passed through Swindon Works where their low-density seating resulted in them being classified as cross-country units, and so repainted to match the indigenous Class 119/120s. But this is still only an assumption on my part! P800/1 also later received blue/grey but when refurbishment eventually caught up with them they were repainted into the white/blue stripe livery, which seemed a backward step! Their stay in the South West only lasted a few months and they were Bristol units by 1975.

31294 was the only one to carry TOPS numbers on green, I saw it at Reading on 16/2/74. Its call to Doncaster for overhaul is now believed to have happened on 6/3/74, not 6/4/74, in which case it only ran in TOPS green condition for 2-3 weeks. A photo of 5818 in green with BR arrows inside Doncaster which appeared in a spring/summer 1974 issue of Modern Railways (I think) has been taken as proof that it never ran in green numbered 31286. Another green-with-arrows 31 which nearly made it to TOPS was 5668, still green in January 1974 - there's no evidence it received its TOPS number (31241) whilst still in in that livery.

Interesting pic this. A pity Dapol didn't see it before tooling their 4mm model with driver's name card holders which compromised the decoration on the Bfy versions (I pushed Kernow to remove these from their D600, otherwise D600 Active would have been similarly afflicted - besides which D600 never had them anyway, and neither did D601 as built). Has anyone else noticed the two versions of Bfy on Class 22s? On these two the yellow above the cab side window wraps over onto the rainstrip, but on many of the 1967 repaints the yellow was masked in line with the cab window corner pillars. I haven't been able to identify which ones due to filth, as nearly illustrated by D6328! This one was my 41st and final Class 22 cop, on 11/9/71 parked as seen here at Laira. It arrived there in May 71 and was withdrawn in July, and in between only appears to have been used on one train - a weedkiller, which took it to the end of more South West branch lines than most of Laira' s regulars ever managed in Class 22's later years. D6328's blaze of glory moment!

I spied D9509/19/35 on Canton whilst passing by on the way to Swansea in late July 1970, and made a note that D9535 was 'moving' - for years I thought I must have been wrong about that but recent info, confirmed above, says I wasn't! My only other contact with this class (pre-preservation) was finding D9555 at NCB Ashington in May 1974, thankfully still in BR livery. It was nice to find it looking immaculate at the EWS Open Days at Old Oak Common 26 years later.

The last all-blue DMU I ever saw in BR service was a Class 118 3-car working the Truro - Falmouth branch in June 1982 (IIRC it was W51305/59472/51320). However Class 121 W55026 was working the same branch 5 years earlier already in blue/grey livery, bolstering a Class 120 3-car. I reckon very early 80s for the last blue Class 121s in normal service must be correct. Neil

Sorry, I don't understand your logic here. It would have had to collect data panels before a repaint into blue syp Jan-Apr 67 - far too early. In reality it never carried that livery, displayed data panels on green syp in 1969 and went straight into blue fye with overpainted D prefixes. D838 was definitely fully repainted, not cleaned - I have a copy of an ExeRail photo showing it gleaming (roof n all) inside Swindon Works alongside D7000, which was itself released on 22/9/68 in green with newly-applied full yellow ends - but without data panels! (Another ExeRail shot of D808 in green fye on Exeter SP would suggest that one was also fully repainted by Swindon in Dec 67, a year into the blue era). Wrong thread for such a discussion really, best return control to the original subject!

The first loco I saw with data panels was D838 Rapid at Plymouth North Road on 11/9/68. I remember wondering (a) what a Class 43 was, and (b) why Swindon had outshopped the loco in ex-works maroon nearly two years after switching to blue - and not necessarily in that order! Credible explanation still awaited...... I recall the news sections in the railway mags of the time showing the new data panels stuck to a Peak and a Deltic. Application could still be patchy though, ex-works 6585 seen at Exeter 2/1/69 didn't have any (locos outshopped without D prefixes or data panels must surely have been unusual). Data panels are useful for dating photos too, e.g. D7045 was often included in lists of Hymeks in blue syp livery, but shots of it in green with data panels make that impossible. From my own observations at the time the bulk of the depot-level TOPS renumbering of the BR loco fleet was achieved during February-April 1974. I'm interested in how this was organised and posted a request for info in Traction magazine a few years ago, but there were no takers......I live in hope!

If proposing to give your green 37 an appropriate number (if your eyesight is up to it!) steer clear of D6937 as this one was in blue by March 1967, before it left the WR (very likely the first blue 37). D6845 also acquired a blue repaint within a couple of years of arriving in Scotland. On the other hand D6841 was still green with small yellow panels in spring 1970. MidlandRed mentioned Class 25s D7611-23, these were the only 25s with tablet catcher recesses in the driver's cabsides, although I would not regard modifying the ancient Farish 25/3 as a good use of modelling time.....! No doubt a retooled version will appear at some point.

Replacing the Class 22s on Paddington ECS workings became a necessity once air-braked Mark 2 stock turned up, and in late 68/early 69 newly overhauled and dual-braked Class 31s 5528/30/35/36/39 were the surprise solution. They remained the WR's only Class 31s until 1971 when 5809/12 arrived at Bristol Bath Road. Both were in green full yellow but 5809 - not mentioned anywhere else in this thread as far as I can see - was the only green one the WR ever got still sporting block serif numbers (without Ds) and BR lion-and-wheel emblems. I have a b&w photo somewhere, at Didcot I think.... I also have a rather grotty colour shot of 5668 at Swindon in Jan 74 still in green, another one which got close to TOPS numbering in green but like 5818 didn't quite manage it. 5827/31294 definitely did though, it was the first mainline diesel* in green with a TOPS number I ever saw, at Reading 16/2/74, the day after it had been renumbered, and if the signal at the end of Platform 4 had been red instead of green I'd have had a photo to prove it but I wasn't quick enough with the camera!! It's now believed to have gone to Doncaster on 6th March not 6th April, in which case it only lasted about 3 weeks in this condition, so it's not surprising that it has achieved almost mythical status. But it did briefly exist, honest! *First green TOPS sighting of all had been 08803 at Didcot the previous day. Next up after the 31 was 47152, at which point I realised things were about to get interesting on the livery front! Regards, Neil

A Class 118 3-car set with two 6-wheel milk tanks in tow heading west between Plymouth and Saltash was captured by local photographer Bernard Mills in 1968, it appeared in a very early issue of Traction (no 4 I think) - as interesting to me as the tail load was the unit's livery, I wasn't aware that any Class 118s carried blue with small yellow panels, and I still have no idea which one it was. The image which really left me speechless can be found in the back pages of "Britain's Railways in Colour: BR Diesels in the 1960s and 1970s" (authored by Colin Maggs and mainly featuring the images of Reverend Alan Newman) where a pair of green 3-car cross-country units are seen towing a pair of maroon Mark 1 passenger coaches in the Bristol area - I'm pretty sure they were Swindon Class 120s with CK & SK but the book is inaccessible at the moment so I can't check. Quite a load, never seen anything like it before or since! The through-wired Hawksworth coaches referred to by Market65 were W7254W, W7804W & W7813W, and I've seen it reported that they were eventually replaced by spare Class 101 (hey, back on topic!) centre trailers W59528/38/43 from the ER, although since these appear to have been used to strengthen Class 117s not 119s perhaps this was coincidental (these must have been the first 'short-frame' DMU vehicles the WR ever received). The two through-wired GUVs used with Class 128 DPUs W55991/2 and stripped-out Class 116 DMBS W50819/62 & DMS W50872/915 on the Paddington - Reading parcels runs in the early-mid 1970s were W86174/572. Modelling such a 3-vehicle set has been an on/off idea for years, having had the required decals in stock for the past 4 decades plus, and having now gathered the necessary Heljan and Lima vehicles (with replacement wheels for the latter) for a total of just £86 it's very much on again! Neil

Many thanks Ian, you make a very good point about yards vs stations. Perhaps the Instamatic got it right after all! Caradoc, OK so 319 not as rare as I thought through Oxford, but I was still lucky to capture it as I only visited Oxford every 3-4 months back then. Mainly for my beloved Hymeks on the Padd- Worcester runs to be honest, although pairs of Class 20s on MGR coals to Didcot Power Station were also an attraction. Lots of green ones in the early 70s! I seem to recall that on the day 319 went through I arrived at Oxford from the south and noticed 1558 on a train in the opposite platform, and on disembarking caught sight of crowds at the north end. Going to see what the fuss was about I discovered 9F 2-10-0 92203 'Black Prince' waiting to depart north with 1558's rake of Mark 1s. This was the first steam-hauled special I'd seen since the ban was lifted. I've only just learned that 9Fs are currently banned from the national network as the flangeless centre driving wheels are incompatible with modern trackwork. Regarding the photo of 37199 passing Swindon, the class37.co.uk website identifies the train as the 1725 Cardiff-Paddington - I didn't log such details myself. Since Class 40s through Oxford has caused some interest, how about Class 37s on passenger workings? Before I really do sign off for a bit here are two almost identical photos of such events taken from the footbridge at the north end of Didcot yard. Complete coincidence this - considering that, like Class 40s on this route, I never saw any other such workings at Oxford or Reading, and only visited this footbridge 4 times, I was surprised by 6813 on 8th September 1973 and gobsmacked by 37136 on 21st June 1975!! The first loco's headcode appears correct but the second one definitely isn't. (BTW I apologize for the quality of my images - all are scanned from negatives subjected to decades of loft temperature extremes. These two also compare the Halina, top (which didn't have TTL focusing) with the Zenith-E, which did. What a revelation that was - provided one remembered to manually stop down after focusing.....!)

And finally, before I sign off for a while for the house move alluded to above, here's a humdinger! 44 years ago D1062 Western Courier and 818 Glory were repainted by works apprentices in readiness for the Swindon Works Open Day on 13th September 1975. I knew one of them via the Swindon MRC and got invited along to wield a paint brush, although all I did on the Warship was assist with holding the nameplates in position while they were riveted on. On 3rd September during a break in proceedings I took myself off to the nearest corner of the Con Yard to photograph the Western expected on 1A67. The light was beginning to fade by the time 1A67 passed by............behind 37199!! A South Wales Class 37 would have been unusual enough, but how on earth did a Thornaby 37 end up working a passenger train up the GW main line??!! (this working can be verified on the class37.co.uk website) Of course views like this are now almost completely obliterated by the over-engineered catenary masts and gantries of the GWML electrification, something I never thought I'd see while I lived here......