hmrspaul
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Posts posted by hmrspaul
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1 hour ago, Cwmtwrch said:
Mea culpa. Being interested in the period circa 1960, I tend to overlook the "boxed" era. I presume that the use of Vanfit was short lived, replaced by the TOPS code VVV as shown on one of the other vans in the photographs?
What we need is a version of BR87209 from 1963. Whether such a thing existed I know not. Clearly more telegraph codes were to be shown on the actual wagons, but as the TOAD suggests not on all. What got a visible name is quite a moveable feast on BR. We are all aware that most of the aquatic departmental names were shown from early on, but between us no one has seen the use of STARFISH (for the uninitiated the small 10t all steel ballast wagon based on a GWR design that goes back to the beginning of the last century).
Paul
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2 hours ago, Sitham Yard said:
From looking at photos I have always reckoned on the VANFIT markings dating from the 1960's.
The above diagrams were originally published in, I think, 1949 and were stated to be provisional. Note no mention of black patches as dark grey was envisaged at the time for unfitted vehicles similar to that used by LNER and GWR.
Andrew
Quite correct, the Scottish archive in Glasgow (IIRC ) has a set of RCH drawings from c1950 onwards for all the different markings and positioning that were introduced as the years went by. I have copies of some of these, but couldn't afford to buy copies of all of them.
Just as a noticeable example on the drawings published above is a gap between the M and the number, and that doesn't appear to have been maintained.
VANFIT is a telegraph code in BR87209 Dec 1958 but not a marking on the wagon. That appears to have altered with the introduction of the new boxed style.
1 hour ago, keefer said:Can't see a Wagon lettering & numbering volume on the Barrowmore site:
http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html
BR9210 'General Instructions No 10A (Revised January 1963)' covering the repainting of repaired freight stock etc. unfortunately does not detail what is to be written - only that the information is to be written in white lettering paint 'in accordance with revised instructions issued April 1963.' (perhaps this is the change mentioned by others above?).
http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BR_9210_Repainting_Treatment_web.pdf
Shame, not on Barrowmore site (I managed to get in this morning). It has been copied on various wagon discussion IO groups.
Yes, I believe April 1963 is the introduction of boxed style of writing, which also appears to have led to more of the hidden telegraph codes becoming a descriptor on the wagons including VANFIT (but not all. TOAD is a well known code for brake vans (not just GWR and LNER ones but all) but if it was written on a van it was very rare. Note that this change predates the new corporate image, but was included once that was publicised and the manual issued. There were various experiments before the April 1964 change, some of the officials are on my site.
5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:Be cautious with this, not very accurate. Just look at Presflow. What is a Presflow?? And the number given as an example B884050 [a number I believe was never used].
As to very early BR writing on wagons. There is a period when they simply added E, M, W, S to the old number without much other rewriting. And the original style of lettering used by the Companies remained - so LMR new build got the broad face used by the LMS. Also repairing / renewing the writing is more common than repainting (which increasingly just simply got ignored - look at my website with black departmentals in the 1970s and 80s (livery went to Gulf Red another finish that survived into the 1990s)).
Paul
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On 21/06/2021 at 12:28, The Stationmaster said:
You are correct Chris - the fuel trains effectively only supplement the pipeline/act as a replacement for it when it is undergoing maintenance or run in order to make sure the unloading system is in good working order.
Alas the ravages of building on former railway land are all too frequent nowadays.
Perhaps it does only supplement the pipeline, but RTT shows a daily working - and one that has worked for the past few days. RTT has a number of Colnbrook destinations but it is this one that shows the regular oil train workings Colnbrook Baa Gbrf
Searching for Colnbrook Signal T3502 shows more workings from various Colnbrook destinations. Just a very quick example https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CNBK502/2024-04-09/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt A couple of Aggregate trains and a couple of oil. Certainly very different to the Colnbrook of old!
Paul
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These are the BEVs, https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbbe Although many were converted to other uses some remained as conventional Bolster wagons This one, in 1988, was the latest I saw one in original condition https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbbe/eef811437
As to the original Bogie Bolster A, I can only think of the GWR ones being at all common in the BR era. As mentioned they were popular with the engineers as crane runners. There are some in this collection, unfortunately dotted around as the GWR was incapable of having a sensible wagon numbering policy, continuing to re-use numbers almost randomly when wagons were scrapped https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbolster
Paul
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2 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:
But note that the "Vanfit" code officially never appeared on the wagon in BR days
and an inaccurate "Fyffes" label.
Just some of mine https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=vanfit Includes this double named Shocvan Vanfit https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/e1737aee1
I agree about Heritage railway conserved stock being very unsuitable for copying. And yes the Banana is a problem, but what is wrong with it having a Fyffes label? Labelling Banana vans was common during the BR period.
And as ever, the OP didn't mention when he is interested in. We seem to have assumed BR period - which is long enough and very complex, but the question is more open than that! nearly 200 years!
Does the Barrowmore site have a copy of the 1959 BR official guide? I've not been able to get into that site for several days.
Paul
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What did you do with the CD-ROM? It's years since players have been installed in PCs, and never on tablets.
Very nice modelling, the Cleminson suspension is nicely done. I wonder why the prototype had these, apparently many years after used on new build stock.
Paul
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The GoG forum has lots of comments down the years of very slow delivery and poor communication from POWsides. Not very helpful - if you were a member you could ask for the trade liaison officer to follow up.
Paul
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33 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:
Anyone think J2123 is oil rather than cement? It looks more like oil products tank wagons, and that might also account for the HAA as a barrier/reach wagon at the front
As they appear to be bogie tanks with a single straight barrel then oil products. 2nd wagon may be the smaller 35ton or 40t GLW tank wagon.
Paul
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On 04/04/2024 at 15:25, john new said:
Just an observation posting as myself so please don't read this as an official show post. Do you not find excellent modelling, irrespective of period, company being modelled and/or the scale it is modelled in inspiring? As @johndon posted above Sherton Abbas isn't my choice of scale, era, gauge or company represented but it was definitely worth seeing.
Just flicking through the Show Guide rather than relying on memory:-
- Stand 73 Hillport Goods (Blue diesels)
- Stand 75 Kensington Olympia (Blue diesels)
- Stand 78 Victoria (? era but IIRC was post steam)
- Stand 79 Kyle of Macallan (A bit earlier than you specify but also post-steam)
- Stand 80 Bluish (Circa 1980 blue era so also post-steam)
- Stand 105 Bristol Avon Bridge (Blue diesels)
- Stand 115 Effingham Street (Blue diesels)
I think we had circa 40 layouts so the 8 above are 1/5th of the total with Deadmans Lane, Back 'ut Shed, Oil Drum Lane and Queen's Road Depot all set in the nearer to, or actual, contentempory era. That is 12, or roughly a quarter set in the post steam era as were also some of the N G and non-UK based layouts.
There is just no pleasing some folks.
John
The problem for your planning team is that the post steam era is now 55+ years. Many of us have lived through it and know that it is not a single era. The original poster, not unreasonably, mentioned the late 1980s Sectorisation pre privatisation period was missing from the show - and your list proves this. Personally, I also like that period; the triple grey livery, large ownership plaques on locos, actually painting stations and signing many depots all make for an attractive and special time in railway history.
Privatisation quickly swept much of it away, but it was an interesting era. It is surprising it apparently is a less popular modelling period.
Paul
https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/sector
Paul
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BR failed to get all the numerous workshops to follow their painting instructions. The old ways were difficult to change, so we get wood framed open wagons being repainted. So one works painting ends black and others with ends the same as the sides seems likely.
1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:The Southern vans definitely had black ends until they changed the specifications.
Jason
Non of these mid 1950s photos of BYs appear to have an end darker than the sides https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srby/e2bf29388
https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srby/e2cedc18b https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/srby/e399adca5
Paul
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I had a skip out the back being filled up with the usual junk one accumulates in life. As usually happens the neighbours added to this in the dark hours. This included a rather nice projector screen. So I got my old and very battered one that was torn and didn't hold up properly anymore, bought when I was a teenager, put that in the skip and kept the "new" one.
Paul
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8 hours ago, PaulG said:
The M&GNR Society own Diagram Y14 Fruit D W92097W, built by BR at Swindon, which according to David Larkin, as part of Lot 30383 in 1960.
The assumption is that the van was out shopped in the post 1956 BR Crimson Lake (Maroon), albeit during rubbing down of the paintwork, the later post 1965 BR blue was found.
The plan is to refurbish the van in "as built" condition, and the question is, should the van ends be black or as some authors state, post 1956 van ends were the same as the body sides, albeit this comment tends to be linked to the time workshops spray painted stock, and I've not read when Swindon adopted spray painting for rolling stock.
Comments gratefully received
Paul
None of my photos, and some are in the 1950s, suggest the ends were any different in colour to the sides. Certainly appear repainted (maroon presumably) after 1957. Before that in Crimson. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/fruitd/ed495eb9 Yellow lining paint for the writing.
Paul
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First we need to know what type of wagon, and then when as you are giving a long time period when instructions varied year on year.
Paul
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Diamond bogies come in several distinctive designs.
But was Genesis kits a WW1 version? IIRC he tended to do BR era wagons and BR had their own Rectanks https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brrectanks
And some photos of WW1 version https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/rectank
Both collections have close ups of the relevant bogies.
Paul
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On 27/03/2024 at 16:42, DaveF said:
1976 and 1977 at Stenson Junction with photos taken from the bridge by the power station sidings.
That is a really good reminder of how mixed freight trains could still be in the mid 1970s. Unloaded Lowmac and a couple of Lowmacs with lorries, scrap in mineral wagons and lots more.
When the CEGB were disposing of the tank wagons they had as an emergency reserve a group of us spent the day at the three power stations in the area https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cegbmidlands
This view may show the bridge some of your photos were taken from https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/britaingeneralrail/e6d44ca7
Paul
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On 01/04/2024 at 18:45, Mol_PMB said:
True. It's very similar to this one; perhaps the diagonal bracing on the upper doors was a later design change?
Cambridge Fowler 4MTT Cambridge to Bletchely c1948 JVol1196
Haven't we had this photo before. North British Horse Box https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerlivestock/e184a2c87
Paul
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Great to see this at York. Some familiar wagons 🥰 very nicely modelled and weathered. Some nice film of it operating in the York show 2024 topic.
Paul
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13 hours ago, OOgaugeJaf said:
South Pelaw and Grantham the highlight of the show for me.
I have attended York for over 20 years. Always loved the specialist traders. Always great for grabbing those bits and pieces. Sadly we are loosing many of the specialists and some great traders such as Tower Models. Some of the replacements are poor to be fair. expensive secondhand tat.
Overall though a great show, see you 2025
The lack of Tower was very noticeable. Hardly any 7mm models on sale anywhere. OK, some nicely priced large Heljan locos but that is a very specialist market - as anyone with a more normal power supply will find they don't work.
Paul
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14 hours ago, Rich Papper said:
I had no idea I had photographed so many!
Paul
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I don't follow this topic, but just seen part of the announcement and it includes B312249 with a badly written MDV.
This is the prototype, Tinsley September 1986 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmdv/e2ffb3fe0
Spot the difference.
Fine, except this was badly written by someone after a through airpipe was added ... MDW and then the brake rigging is indescribably wrong. Is all of Hornby TTT so horribly wrong, taking the hobby back to the early 1960s? (Triang TT made a good fist of modelling wagons).
Paul
(Who has had no communication recently from Hornby)
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On 20/03/2024 at 18:52, Mol_PMB said:
Agreed. And Egrets weren't common here in the 1970s - they're a recent import.
The Little Egret (Egretta garzetta) is a charming white heron with striking white plumes on its crest, back, and chest. It boasts black legs, a black bill, and eye-catching yellow feet. Let’s delve into its fascinating history in the United Kingdom:
Arrival in the UK:
The Little Egret first made its significant appearance in the UK in 1989.
It followed a natural range expansion from western and northern France in the preceding decades.
Breeding and Colonization:
In 1996, this elegant bird successfully bred in Dorset, marking a pivotal moment.
Since then, it has become a familiar sight in various parts of the UK.
Little Egrets have colonized much of southern Britain and Ireland, both as breeding species and winter visitors.
Distinctive Features:
With its yellow feet, which it uses to flush prey while feeding in shallow water, the Little Egret stands out among its heron relatives.
Distribution:
These graceful birds can now be observed in most regions across the UK.
From the RSPB. The golden feet is a distinctive feature. And yes, not so small !
Paul
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3 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:
Regarding the fitted welded coal hoppers that ran in fixed sets up to North London from 1958, those I saw on ER and MR were branded HOUSE COAL CONCENTRATION or CHARRINGTONS. Were other business names to be seen on these, and when did this traffic go extinct?
No, only the two.
Paul
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5 hours ago, 'CHARD said:
All I observe about that identity is that the K suffix indicates that it's supposed to depict a former private owner wagon that's been taken into capital stock.
As to the actual provenance, I haven't got the book (Rowlands?) to hand just now.
K simply means it is 21ton, and N means it is 24.5t. Used on both hoppers and flat bottom double door minerals.
Paul
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Early BR freight stock markings
in UK Prototype Questions
Posted
Not many. Strangely BR built some batches of specialist wagons only piped - Covhops https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcovhop/eb633154 and Grain https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brgraincgp but there were others. Piping seems understandable for the odd wagon that could fill in a rake of otherwise vacuum braked wagons, but not these wagons which more usually worked in rakes, even block trains even in the 1950s. There is an argument that the unloading mechanism of these wagons made vacuum braking difficult. But it was done, as each had VB built Lots.
Yes agree, no VANPIPES.
Paul