DK123GWR

I bought an Airfix autocoach in a joblot with a few wagons. At £10 including postage, it would probably be difficult to get one individually for the same money. It does have this unusual addition though. It's stuck on rather well and there are prominent glue marks both around here and where the previous owner has reattached the hand rails by the doors, so generous helpings were used. I think I'm probably better off leaving it as it is and saying that Oakhampstead wanted to run longer push-pull trains than the Swindon system allowed, and so experimentally rebuilt a few autocoaches with a different type of control system (no idea what) and gangways on one end, with some standard coaches converted to transmit the controls to the loco.

For those wondering what path the thread has taken, I believe is as follows: HS2>Current planning laws>Historic planning laws>Life in the mid-20th Century>Pensions>Rather bizarre claims that one cross-dresser not being killed is evidence that there was no problem with racial or sexual discrimination (with some climate change denial, ill-informed debates on migration, and a discussion of advances in healthcare technology along the way).

Now when we were discussing current planning regualtions, I think we still had a clear and obvious link to HS2 - it's clear that the way planning works now will have an impact on future transport demands. I struggle to see how ignorant claims about discrimination in the mid-20th Century feed into the discussion though. If those involved are unable to enlighten us about this mysterious link, perhaps they ought to consider whether this is the right forum for their discussion. Suggestions for more suitable fora available on request. They might also consider reading a book, or talking to people beaten up by the National Front about their experiences of discrimination.

In the mean time, there appears to be some speculation that Leeds City Council are seeking to develop the land safeguarded for HS2. Surely they aren't that short-sighted?

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/hs2/hs2-urgent-call-for-review-of-development-on-axed-route-25-11-2021/

I have here a couple of questions which seem interesting, but I don't really have the knowlege to answer.

If we had managed to break out of 4 wheel unbraked wagons much earlier (let's say the 1920s or 1930s) what would have pulled them? The GWR built the 47xx (rated 7F by BR) for fast overnight freight - would that have been their go-to or perhaps something completely new? Could more garratts have been produced in the UK, or would the railways keep to conventional designs?

Another thought, entirely unrelated. The largest passenger tanks that I am aware of were class 4s such as the GWR Large Praries, BR's Standard 4MT and its LMS ancestors. What conditions might have made a larger passenger or mixed traffic tank loco useful? If there were a world where they were useful, could they be practically built?

23 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

We have discussed this before elsewhere

 

The WESTMINSTER GOVERNMENT have rigged the planning process in favour of their developer mates. Basically....

 

A WESTMINSTER GOVERNMENT quango decides how much new housing is 'needed' in each local authority area and instructs said local authorities to find and set aside XX hectares of land for housing in 5 yearly housing plans.

 

If the local authority does not do this, or does not keep its housing plan 'up to date' then planning law has been adjusted and developers MUST be granted planning permission to build wherever they want (unless its an SSI, AONB, a NP or Greenbelt). Refusal to give permission will see the developer win on appeal to the secretary of state. If this happens the developer also has the ability to avoid paying S106 contributions to local authorities to help with stuff like extra schools provision, etc

 

As a result local authorities don't have much choice other than to do the WESTMINSTER GOVERNMENTS dirty work and are often forced to set aside land for development against the wishes of locals. This is worse where the local authority has lots of environmental restrictions (e.g. AONBs or Greenbelt) which effectively forces the development to be concentrated in a few places rather than being spread out more evenly amongst existing settlements.

 

If you don't like it then rather than complaining to / about local authorities then you need to get writing to your MPs - because they (or the Government they are meant to control) are the ones setting the agenda here....

 

My hometown for example is earmarked for huge levels of housing precisely because an awful lot of the rest of Mid Sussex is covered by ANOB restrictions and its one of the few places development can be done. Local authorities in the vicinity of the Chilterns will be facing similar dilemmas...

 

 

 

Just in case you've mis-read my post (or I've been unclear) I know most of this from some of the positions I held before going to university (particularly on my town's Youth Council) and my criticism was directed at Westminster gov - I just didn't want to accelerate the tangent on planning policy given that it is the HS2 thread.

12 minutes ago, 62613 said:

I suspect that that's the government ordering the local authority to build so many houses; every LA in England has been instructed to do so. If the LA has got it's head screwed on, it will be drawing up a plan, which would allow them to say to developers, "Here, and nowhere else"

 

Which is a strange policy, given that there are more empty long-term homes than homeless people. One might think that selectively building in areas where there is a shortage and redistributing some of those empty homes might be a more sustainable solution.

One might also imagine, on issues such as choice of transport or diet, that the Behavioural Insights Team could investigate ways to persuade people to eat less meat and use public or active transport instead of private vehicles, at the same time as fiscal policy and re-regulation is used to facilitate these changes. Instead, we get ministers waffling on about how much hard-working people deserve a steak when they get home from work and a PM telling business leaders that a Tesla can get away from traffic lights faster than a Ferrari. A little bit of really straightforward inside-the-box thinking would go a long way sometimes, and transport policy is no exception.

13 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

But you labelled them for the markup you wanted so why do you need to relabel?

Only new stock needs the new prices.

Think about cashflow - you need to be able to buy the new stock at the new prices, and depending upon the size of the price rise that may not be possible.

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

There has been a trailer (screened several times last week) showing Sam being moved/pulled (I presume) on some sort of trolley attached to a number of locos running on parallel tracks laid on the carpet tiles.  Effectively the hint was that this would be in the next programme, i.e. this evening.

That sounds like its taken from this video from Feb 2020:

On a related note, there is a model shop within a toy shop near me. All of its items are priced, but with tiny handwritten (probably in pencil) stickers, and they are kept on a shelving unit behind the desk. I am young with good eyesight, and I found attempting to read the prices futile. I asked if I could get closer because the labels and was told that I should just ask them. I found looking past the person stood behind the desk trying to look at the prices uncomfortable, but if I have to ask about every single item that I'm even thinking of buying I'm not going to bother hanging around.

I can't work out what on earth they hope to gain from this policy. Older people (who are more likely to have sub-optimal eyesight) and autistic people (who may be less comfortable engaging with the worker) are both likely to be over-represented in the pool of potential customers, yet are both more likely to be put off by this policy. Perhaps they just didn't like the look of the teenager in slightly scruffy clothing carrying a rucksack - but I can't change my age more than anyone else and I'm not likely to be cycling the 10 miles or so to their shop in a suit and tie while carrying a briefcase (and even if matters were different, why should I have to change myself or my behaviour in order to avoid ageist or classist prejudice). Either way, I've never bought from them and I won't in future. I can find more facilitating suppliers than them, both bricks-and-mortar and online. I assume that they likewise believe they can find more willing customers than me.

2 hours ago, whart57 said:

In a different direction. What if Colonel Stephens had experimented fitting a diesel motor onto a Terrier chassis?

 

 

There were examples on narrow gauge lines of an old steam engine having the boiler and other steam gubbings removed and replaced by an internal combustion engine fitted to the frame and driving the original wheels. I've imagined a jack shaft here as that would not require suspension.

I know the Terriers weren't heavy, and I have no idea how the weight of the diesel bits would compare to the steam ones, but would the axle loadings still be suitable for a light railway on this design?

Personally, I can't stand tea or coffee. Whatever you do someone'll tell you it's wrong and give you a judgemental stare, and if you do, miraculously, manage to do it 'right' it still tastes awful. Why go to all that trouble to ruin a good drink of tap water? And if you really want something hot, why not have hot chocolate, or soup? They're actually nice.

And now that I've offended the whole of Britain, I'll put us back on topic:

How does a zebra crossing improve pedestrian safety? (Answer below in white)

The car hits the zebra and not the pedestrians.

34 minutes ago, rab said:

 

Although it had no wheels, its a good runner.

Having queried it with seller, apparently the (single) picture

shows clearly what is for sale

Unfortunately you get these listings sometimes. Usually they're the product of people attempting to demonstrate they have the right skills to work in government.

Would the eastern leg have fared better if it had been branded as HS3 with the emphasis on improving transport links between Leeds and Birmingham? It seems to me that local politicians are more receptive of HS2 than those in the Chilterns. Branding the eastern leg as HS3 could have insulated it from some of the general broader anti-HS2 sentiment, which mostly seems to originate in the Home Counties. It would also increase the political costs of cancelling the eastern leg/HS3 for a government which wants to be seen 'leveling up', although of course HS2 pre-dates that particular slogan by many years. For clarity, I am only wondering whether it would have been better to separate the branding - operationally the two lines should of course be integrated. There might have been secondary benefits to the separation if Birmingham-Manchester was then seen as part of the 'main line' of HS2, rather than a 'leg' or a 'branch' which might imply that it is of lesser importance than the London-Birmingham route.

In politics exams, essays on communism should all get the same Marx.

2 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

Is this part of some memory game you're offering to them? I'm sure we had this last week.

8 hours ago, rab said:

 

Are you sure that's not the distance you are from the seller - 10 miles.

I get that showing up on my saved searches.

Yes. For example (the blue covers my address and the distance):

This seller has a few locos, wagons, and parts priced by volume (and apparently they're all 10ml).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/scouse889/m.html?item=165157170515&epid=11039227104&hash=item2674226d53%3Ag%3AjBcAAOSwlApgqAjw&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

20 minutes ago, SR71 said:

I don't think I've posted this before. Pug bash from a Percy I did about fifteen years ago.

 

Very nice! I love the detail under the saddle tank. The Hornby Peckett W4s have detailing in that area and it does so much to bring it up from looking like a 'toy' to a 'proper' model. Do you remember where you got a smokebox door to fit? Whenever I look at doing something to a Hornby Percy this is one of the big stumbling blocks. Thomas of course is easy because the one from the Dowlais 0-4-0 goes on with a bit of filing.

19 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

As the famous lyricist Flavor Flav once remarked 'his story, not history.

 

History is a written documentation of past events, written from the biased postulations of people who remembered the event, it tends to be the victors as the losers don't always get a voice.

Which is exactly why people are now looking back at history and rexamining it in a way which reflects modern society. The fact that the British Empire was built on the exploitation of huge numbers of people did not, unfortunately, concern many people in previous generations. This has changed (in my view for the better) but this means that the old histories written from a very narrow 'Rule Brittania' mindset no longer satisfy most people. There's no doubt that in another couple of hundred years views will be very different again - there might be increased discussion of the role that the British Empire played in spreading industry and capitalism, and how this contributed to climate change. At the other end of the scale there could be a fascist governent in power in the future, and in that society history would be almost unrecogniseable from what we know today.

For another example, consider Shakespeare. Large parts of his histories are complete and utter rubbish written to please the monarch of the day. We know (or perhaps more correctly, have a probable opinion) today that real events did not occur as Shakespeare described them - and yet we still refer to his 'histories' and to those written by medieval monks, which are at least similarly dubious. We might criticise these accounts for lacking 'historical accuracy' but this is a term which takes our history (that is, the current consensus about what happened in the past) to be the closest approximation of the truth available to us, just as these texts were seen in their day. Any wise person who talks about 'historical accuracy' ought to be keenly aware of this limitation - it would be both arrogant and foolish to assume that our current history is infallible, and it is almost certainly quite wrong about some things - we just don't know what yet. This is, always has been, and very probably almost will be the case in every intellectual discipline, from philosophy to physics. The point of research, when conducted in good faith, is to constantly question our beliefs and to re-write our understanding, and this is just one step towards enhancing our understanding of one small, but important, area of history.

20 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

Having watched Riley in the latest episode, i have to feel he was being sent up and his good nature being taking advantage of.  He seems a genuinely nice young man, but the producers show him glueing his fingers to the model and 'crashing' his model into the scenery, making a mess of the plaster scenery, the sign falling onto his head.   

 

I couldn't see a reason why they did this other to portray him as clumsy geeky nerd, the type with glasses held together by tape, someone the butt of everyone's jokes.

 

I thought it pretty distasteful.

Is it? The sign falling down was a humourous moment, especially given the context of the discussion. The producers seem keen to leave in people messing up - hence Sam's lights going out (yes, it's his fault for playing with silly power supplies, but you get the point), the man from Hornby breaking the model he was supposed to be fixing, Waterman's layout not fitting together properly, issues with the water on Heaton Lodge Junction, etc. I think its important to include all of this to show that we all make mistakes, and it's part of the programme's effort to show off as much of the hobby as possible - something which has been widely praised on here. As somebody who's doing trying things for the first time he's bound to have some failures. Leaving them in the programme is important for other new modellers, especially younger ones. Being young he's somebody that they might connect with a little more easily than yet another old man with grey (if any) hair, and he's building very good layouts. But just like them, he's still learning and things don't always go to plan - at which point he doesn't give up but tries something else instead. And ultimately, it all comes together to produce a brilliant result.

I'm less than a year older than him, and pretty much every part of that segment I empathised with. Plus, I would be thrilled if I had half the confidence he must do to have put himself out there like this, or could produce a layout half (or even a quarter) as good as his.

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

You could get the Bachmann Bill or Ben inside the Hornby body with room to spare.

If you want to use the latter for a Pugbash, it'll have to be for O-16.5

Or according to Corbs' measuremments 7mm standard gauge. I've read somewhere on RMWeb that somebody did it once, though I don't recall seeing any pictures.

I don't know how small you mean by small, but if you watch the latest episode of Hornby: A Model World on Yesterday (catch up on UKTV Play) there is a layout which features a small layout with two levels. It looks to be a rather more rural scene than you are imagining but it might still be useful to you.

Local news report featuring photos

The episode in question

To give the definitive answer to how Riley met John:

I would also like to add that I'm very glad the programme seems committed to showing the full diversity of the hobby, and yesterday's episode really demonstrated that. I also like that they've mixed this into programmes which, on the Hornby side, are focussing on the other brands. I probably wouldn't watch an episode if I knew it was all going to be about Airfix or Corgi, but because I've been watching primarily for the railway bits in between I've also seen the other segments, which have often been interesting in their own right.

1 hour ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

Did not know that about the Toby chassis, very interesting. Shame about the height of the thing, but I wonder how it performed with the extra weight and gearing.

Haulage is pretty good. It's better than any of my Caley pug chassis at low speeds, but nowhere near the sort of performance you would get from Pecketts, etc.).

6 minutes ago, AlfaZagato said:

Are y'all sure you're not conflating the Bachman Bill/Ben here?   Is it possible that one or the other sold the one tooling?

I'm definitely talking about Hornby. I have Toby, and have done since I was a young child, several years before Bachmann's Thomas came to the UK. The chassis shown in that picture is the same one.

1 hour ago, Rockalaucher101 said:

Just managed to find an image off Google of the Bill/Ben chassis, side by side with a Smokey Joe chassis. It is very slightly different... Wonder why this hasn't been adopted in more models.

The Bill and Ben chassis is essentially the same as the Toby chassis. There are four axle slots. If I remember rightly 1,2,and 4 are used for Toby and 1 and 3 for the twins. It's a nice heavy lump of metal, but the horizontally mounted motor (and the unneccesarilly chunky mountings) are far too big for most locos. It wouldn't really be viable for anything other than a large side tank if the model was to be anywhere near scale.

3 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Ever been so drunk that you got hit by a parked car? 

Not quite, but I have on a few occaisions seen people (apparently sober) getting off of busses on Oxford's High Street, trying to stay close to the road because of how busy the pavements are, and quickly hitting their head on the wing mirror (usually then stumbling into the path of all of the people they were trying to stay out of the way of). I've managed to catch my shoulder on one too whilst walking past a bus stop without paying much attention. I feel sorry for the drivers who must get tired of readjusting them.