Northern Electric

Point taken RE the cost/benefit of offering a dummy loco. I thought (based on the prices I have payed for such parts from Bachmann) that the electronic bits made up a larger percentage of the total price than has been suggested. In light of this, I wonder how Hornby managed to put together a business case to produce their Class 82/1 DVT? That was a stand alone model designed from scratch and, a somewhat unusual choice given there weren't (at that time) comparably detailed class 87 or 90 locomotives on the market to run it with. In fact I remember how crude and outdated their own class 90 looked next to the DVT in those odd Virgin/EWS Charter packs they offered for a while. Judging by the prices they fetch on eBay they are quite sought after. I'd have thought with a new 87 and 90 now and the market and class 86/2 and 86/4 soon to join them, now would be an ideal time to produce another run....assuming of course that it proved to be a profitable venture the first time round! ? In any case, I am really enjoying this resurgence of interest in AC electrics and it is great that UK modellers are finally being offered a range of models of comparable quality and detail that like minded modellers on the continent have enjoyed for years. Now if someone would just develop some catenary (Properly!) to go with them!

That interesting to hear, though I can't think why. There shouldn't need to be any "design work" involved as such. All the standard parts could be used, just minus the motor, PCB, Driveshafts/gears and lighting boards etc.. Anyway I am not a manufacturing expert and I can understand the preference toward standardisation. It was just an idea I thought I'd put out there as it seems to have been done successfully (?) once before. As far as the RRP - I think the standard AL6 model RRP seems fair. I vaguely recall the RRP of the old model 86 being something in the region of £130 circa 2010. So about £165 for what will be an updated and improved model for 2021 seems acceptable to me, and is comparable with other offerings in the same class. I recently bought a new Bachmann Class 90 (£152) and was astounded by how complex it's internal construction was, even compared to their own Class 85 that came out just 9 years ago. I think it's fair to say that by and large we still get what we pay for. That said, I did notice in one of the more recent Bachmann catalogues that the RRP for the Class 85 had climbed to £189... Definitely more than inflation at play there! I'm not sure why some people are getting so upset about the excessive markup on the limited edition GM model...? It seems to me like Heljan have set a sensible price on the standard range and I'm sure many retailers will discount that further in time, and then of course second hand examples will begin to come onto the market... So unless you were absolutely dead set on that specific edition, most of us won't be paying £230 for a DCC ready model or anything close to that. As some previous posts have rightly pointed out, those on a budget (like myself) can pick up some second hand Hornby 86/87/90 models which, with a bit of time and effort, can be made to look really good. I don't think it's realistic to say most people are in danger of being priced out of their hobby just because one retailer has chosen to put a rather excessive markup on one of their limited editions. Based on past experience I'd be willing to bet when they actually hit the marked you'll be able to pick up a new one for under £150 (fingers crossed! )

RE locos that run in pairs - I may be wrong, but didn't Dapol offer "dummy" versions i.e. unmotorised versions off their N-gauge 86/6s at a lower price? I wonder if this is an option Heljan might consider with their RFD and Freightliner variants which (aside from 86501) have always run in pairs? I'm sure a large proportion of the cost of modern locomotives goes on the complex motor/drive system and all the electronics, more than the bits we can see from the outside. So there would presumably be big savings possible by offering dummy locos as an option along side the RTR equivalents. This would also suit modellers who are tempted by an AC electric to drag "away from the wires" but can't justify the price of a full RTR example. It also provides a more affordable option for those who don't have a layout and buy locomotives as static exhibits. Definitely worth considering IMO.

RE my comment about the shade of blue - I have no intention of reigniting a (very) old debate about what classes or specific locos wore what, and sincerely hope my comment was not construed as such! My intention was to make the following points: 1. The colour of the sample model looks nice and accurate to me - Well done guys! 2. Early rail blue (which has in the past often been incorrectly dubbed electric blue) looks nothing like actual electric blue in real life. Hope that clears up any confusion!

I was very excited about the new 87 and I think it is a good model overall with excellent chassis and bogie detailing, but having seen them in the flesh there are a couple of issues with it. One being the same thing the old Heljan 86 was heavily criticised for... the grilles! They do not look right to me - the vertical slats seem to be flush with the outer square surround rather than slightly recessed as they should be (and are on the old Lima/Hornby model). It's doesn't look too bad on the IC swallow version due to the dark upper body colour, but I find it quite noticeable on the BR blue versions and very obvious on the red of the VT version. It's a real pity they got that part wrong as the rest of the body looks rather good to me. I really like Hornby's version of the cross-arm pantograph on the early BR blue version. In fact I would say it's the first pantograph of ANY RTR electric that I have genuinely liked the look of! Though on second glance it looks like it is sat a bit too high. I think possibly the insulators may be the issue here as much as the pantograph its self (as it seems to be on the 86). I was less impressed with the Brecknell-Willis version, which looks to be a carry over from the old model and was rather flimsy and not very good even then. I'm not sure why Hornby would go to expense of tooling and entirely new body and chassis to then use a 12 year old carry over pantograph....? Overall a good model, slightly let down by a few silly detail errors and a poor pantograph (except on the cross-arm version). I would consider one in IC livery if the price was right. I haven't bought one yet as you can buy Bachmann's new class 90 for the same price which I think is a better model overall (I have the IC swallow version) but I might pick one up once they become a bit cheaper and maybe do a pan swap on it.

Hi folks, New guy here and I just though I'd start by saying hello on this thread as the class 86 is my favorite locomotive! I am very pleased and excited to see this new release taking shape and will definitely be making a purchase! I was just wondering if there has been any further news about release dates yet? And also thought I would chip in some feedback about those sample models as I have identified a couple of areas to look at, some of which I was surprised to find don't seem to have been mentioned yet, so apologies in advance for such a long post! Things to look at: Rain gutters - I noticed all the samples shown on page 12 of this thread appear to have the short rain gutter that runs over the cab door only. This is actually incorrect for the majority of the class. Having reviewed pictures online and in my books, it appears that only the first dozen or so locos from each works was built that way. Most locos of the build emerged with the full length gutters extending over the opening quarter light window too, as can still be seen today. By approximately 1967/8 all the earlier batch had been fitted with the longer gutters. So the style carried by those sample models is only correct for the earliest "Monastral Blue" version and definitely incorrect for the BR blue version. If only one style is to be used to simplify tooling, I would go with the latter is it is correct for the majority of the class and is still authentic for all the liveries represented, except for the original blue with no yellow warning panel. Sanding gear - The as-built AL6 variants are correctly modeled with no sanding gear or filler flaps on the cab sides. However looking at the BR blue examples, I think (it is not entirely clear from the photos) it has the wrong style filler flaps on the cab side . When the AL6s were first fitted with sanding gear (circa 1973 I believe..?) they had the earlier style filler flaps which are hinged from the top with the large concave circular handle in the middle, as per the class 87s. The type that is shown on the sample appears to be the later type with the flush flap that hinges on the side. That is CORRECT for the 86/4, 86/6 and later 86/2, but INCORRECT for the 86/0 as seen here. I am also curious as to whether the appropriate sanding pipes on the front of the bogies will be fitted to the sanding gear equipped models? Pantograph - Much has been said already about the pantograph, particularly with regards to it sitting too high. I would have to concur, it does look a little high when in the lowered position. Someone has suggested shortening (all) the insulators slightly, which is one possibility. Perhaps if combined with making the legs of the base slight shallower where they meet the insulators, this would make the whole assembly sit a little lower and look a bit better? Continuing on the roof equipment theme, there are a couple of detail errors that have been carried over from the old model that I would like to see addressed: The air motor linkage to raise the pantograph appears to sit flat on the roof - i.e. several mm below where it should be (connected to the bottom of the lower pantograph arm). The earthing switch on the air-blast circuit breaker is in the raised position, which would mean the pantograph would be locked down and the locomotive out of service, and the bit of conductor that connects the two sides of it is missing. In service the earth switch should be open (away from the top of the insulators). Positive feedback: The body detailing, particularly the grilles and the tail lights, look to be much improved over the old model, and the livery looks excellent. The shades of blue look to be spot on, and this is coming from someone who has watched hours of colour footage of the AL6s at work during the period in question as well as hundreds of photos in books, magazines and on flickr. I also helped to sand down 85101 back to bare metal (through its original coat of electric blue) for its repaint into BR blue several years ago, I can categorically say that electric blue and rail blue are not at all alike! How the two ever got mistaken for one another continues to mystify me! The only thing I noted is that the shade of grey on the roof looked too dark, but hard to say definitively just from those sample photos. On the topic of livery, I have a question: Will they be supplied with etched BR crests and numbers as per Bachmann AL5, or will customers have to purchase their own? And if that is the case, will the running number be easy to remove should customers wish to renumber their locos? I am very excited to see this model being developed and will certainly be purchasing one or two! I did have a go at making a few AL6s a while back from Hornby 86s and the Craftsman 86/0 kit. They turned out pretty good, but clearly the market has been waiting for a model like this for quite some time and this will go very well along side Bachmann's 85 and Hornby's early blue era 87. Sorry to rattle on for so long it's just I really want this model to be a success! AC electrics have enjoyed a real resurgence in popularity the last few years, much to my delight. Long may that continue!