Northern Electric

Very nice OLE drawings and EMU projects there! May I ask where you got the dimensions for those from? Most of the measurements for the portals I have made so far, I either took myself (where safe and legal) and also from information in the original 1960 BTCC Electrification Conference Papers. - A long but interesting read for anyone interested in the technical aspects of the early 25kv system. If anyone has any other useful and relevant design/dimensions info (or contacts at Network Rail!) then please make it known as it could be a help.

Interesting to see in those old clips that even in the early days of 310 electric services, the 304s found their way onto the southern stretch of the WCML. They would have been running along side 310s in the Birmingham/Coventry/Rugby area daily. I've even seen a couple of shots of the two classes working in multiple! This was the case even into the 1990s after the 321s and 323s had come in. Though the remaining 304s didn't have long left by then. A few had received Regional Livery, as had the 310s. Some 305s and 309s spent their final years working out of Manchester along side the newer 323s. I've also seen some footage of 303s working between Manchester and Crewe in the late 80's! There are so many different classes and liveries of unit you could potentially model for the WCML it would be difficult to cover all of them. But who knows, perhaps at some point Bachmann might work their way backwards from the 350...? RE the OLE options, I'm going to look into setting up a poll to asses which specific products (masts, portals, etc.) would prove the most popular then I'll at least have an idea on where to focus my efforts. The one thing about the WCML that makes it so interesting is the very same thing that makes it so difficult to model - The range and diversity of it all (including the units!).

I know what you mean about over-scale wires. Obviously you can get away with finer wires and support structures if they don't have to resist the pressure and drag of pantographs running along them, but you loose the possibility of powering trains through the OLE or accommodating height changes at bridges, level crossings etc. But is that something most people actually want? Certainly all the equipment from Sommerfeldt, Peco etc. is designed to accommodate that, so I will be interested to learn what the consensus is about working systems vs cosmetic systems. I personally have nothing against cosmetic systems with the pantographs being manually adjustable to sit just below the wires, but equally I'm sure some would argue if it isn't a working system them it isn't realistic... My initial thoughts didn't really include the production of the wire spans or geometric fitting tools - I was planning more along the lines of just designing the portals and masts to fit with the existing wire spans and fitting tools already on offer from Sommerfeldt. Wire spans aren't within the remit of 3d printing and would be going into an area of manufacture I know nothing about. Though I will concur that some finer (and cheaper) wire spans on offer would make the whole concept of electrified layouts both more realistic and more affordable.

Any chance you could link photos of the ones you mean as there are a number of different types of each of those structures. The N-brass portals can be made to look passable if well constructed and then fitted out with suitably detailed registration fittings. I have worked with them in the past and the main downfall (IMO) was the level of difficulty in putting them together - It takes quite a bit of skill and patience with a soldering iron and the formers not to make a hash of them. An important part of what I want to achieve here is something that is both quick and easy to assemble, so that even modellers of average skill can do it successfully.

Someone commissioned me to build some booster transformer structures a while ago - these were all hand made in the tubular style, but I am in the process of designing them in CAD in the more common angled steel section design. Class 85 is there to illustrate scale.

I have successfully printed some of the tube style portals, these are a variation of one of the more common design but in the less common tubular style as can be seen on ER lines. They can be assembled with superglue in less than 10 minutes.

Here are some 3d previews of my design for the Mk1 single masts, H section type. I have not tried a test print of these yet and not sure how well they would come out due to the thin wires, however I have made some by hand, soldering the cantilever out of brass wire. This design can be found as both H section mast and tube masts, which are more common on the Eastern region, but also used sporadically on the WCML and Glasgow suburban network.

I would like to formally invite anyone who has any interest in OLE equipment (not just BR Mk1 style) to state their top 3 types of structure they would be most likely to buy. For instance: 1 - Single masts. 2 - Two track portals. 3 - Tensioner portals. There are so many different kinds of structure in the Mk1 style it would be impractical if not impossible to model all of them. So narrowing it down to handful of products that are the most likely to prove popular is probably a good place to start.

Next was two different versions of the heavy-duty tension portal that you see outside depots with the isolator switches mounted on the top, or on the mainline with the counterweights and pulleys on the automatically tensioned sections. (Class 86 photo is not mine)

My very first attempt to replicate a structure was this multi track lattice portal. Measurments of the legs dimensions taken at Manchester Piccadilly in 2015. This was the first physical prototype I produced. The registration fitting I made myself from soldered 0.7mm brass wire, but the can also be 3d printed in a variety of materials.

Sorry about that initial post I got distracted by something else and accidentally clicked post before having finished it! Thought it would take more than a few minuted before people started replying... haha lesson learned!

Hi all, One or two of you might know already from the Class 86 thread but, a few years back, I got into 3d printing my own OLE equipment. The area I intend to model for my own personal layout is Crewe electric depot, so naturally there are numerous different kinds of OLE structures that I will need to make for that but, having already done much of the measurement, research and design work, it seemed pertinent asses whether there is wider interest in these products, and if so, whether it might be worthwhile seeking to produce them by other means that are more affordable to mass produce. I am aware that there are already some products offered in terms of British outline OLE but, in my opinion, none of them are truly realistic. I have worked with N-Brass etched brass portals in the past and while they are of reasonable appearence when made up, I found them fiddly to construct and easily damaged. My ultimate goal from this project is to (hopefully) achieve the following: 1. Showcase my models/designs and asses interest 2. Determine the most viable/popular variants to produce 3. Investigate ways of producing the models in large numbers at an affordable price 4. Bring a product, or range of products on to the marked that are A - Realistic. B - Easy to construct, and C. Affordable for the average modeller. I will shortly begin to showcase both physical and virtual examples of my previous work. I would like people to give constructive feedback on the designs and state which types of structure they would most like to be able to purchase and why. I will be starting with the BR Mark 1 series equipment, but may look at other designs in the future such ad 1500v DC equipment or Mk3 if the project proves to be successful. Thanks in advance for any advice, ideas and support!

It seems like there's some interest so to avoid derailing this thread I'll start a dedicated OLE thread shortly. But, in answer to those questions, the portals themselves are reasonably strong and good enough for use on a working contact system. The registration and support fitting are different - Ones in the first and second pictures I made myself out of soldered 0.7mm brass wire. They are strong enough for use on a contact system. The ones in the other pics are the 3d printed ones and, they are just about strong enough to support wires, but wouldn't stand any pressure or tension being applied from a pantograph. The V shaped hangers are used in areas with fixed wires i.e without the constant-tension system of weights and pulleys. They are usually seen in areas with extensive pointwork and where running speeds are lower, such as terminus stations, depots, yards, complex junctions etc. The L shaped hangers are used mostly for the constant tension system, which is required where running speeds are above 80mph, and are what you will see on open stretches of track out on the mainline, though they are sometimes used elsewhere also. You can make both kinds out of soldered brass wire or you can 3d print them. The results look slightly more detailed with the 3d printed ones, but as mentioned they are only really for cosmetic use. EDIT: It is actually possible to 3d print the registration arms in copper/brass/bronze etc. so they would be strong enough, albeit rather more expensive...

It's nice but, as with their single mast, the insulators are too small and of the wrong kind of shape. Also the upper support arms could do with some little pulley wheels for the catenary wire. The little square things to threat the wire through spoil it a bit. But the overall shape of the portal looks fairly good. Legs a little on the thin side perhaps? Did they give a suggested retail price? Surely etched brass will push up the RRP compared to injection molded plastic stuff? Seems an odd choice if they want it to be mainstream successful - It will need to be sensibly priced. Look at the insulators - although in various different shapes and sizes, they all have 8 sheds compared to the Peco 4 shed's which are clearly too small. Colin Craig offers some excellent cast metal ones in the most common shapes, and I have 3d files to print the portal design in the second pic. Though as many people have said before, the problem with modelling OLE on the WCML is choosing exactly which structures to replicate, because there are at least a dozen different types of portal and the layout of the registration fittings also varies widely!

Ooh, the portals do look good! The insulators could be better though. I think those are the same not very realistic looking ones they put on their mk3 single masts, which let them down a bit IMO. Where/when was that photo taken? Any release date given? Should probably start a separate thread on electrification but...If anyone wants something doing now feel free to PM me. Most of the files have been successfully tried and are ready to print, and there's a couple of designs I haven't tried yet but expect to come out ok. Apologies for the blurry pics they were taken rather hastily some years ago... Last pic is how they come out of the box from the printers. Then its just a matter of gluing it all together (5 minute job) and spray painting the desired grey colour, then doing the insulators and registration arms with a fine brush.

I made a bunch of 3d printed portals including the registration fittings about 5 years ago, in four different designs. Mostly for test purposes on my own layout. They look really good but being 3d printed, are quite expensive per unit, and the registration parts really need to be soldered metal if they are they are to be used as a working system, which admittedly not everyone does. I toyed with the idea of getting some molds made but never got anywhere with it, but as noted earlier, AC electrics have come on quite a bit even since 5 years ago so might be worth another bash at exploring perhaps..? RE the EMUs, I like the 310s, but always thought they looked best with their original wrap around windscreens. They did run along side class 85/86/87/90s too so it would be a complimentary product to offer along side the existing locomotives. More so than their (admittedly very nice) class 350. And of course the 312s were very similar in appearance, albeit with the less stylish flat windscreens carried from new. Both classes of unit moved around a bit so provide modelling opportunities for LMR, ECML, GE and LTS routes over their almost 40 year careers. Definitely one with potential..

I can't imagine Hornby would bring out an all-new 86 right after Heljan have announced theirs. That would be rather pointless duplication. Though I must admit it struck me as a little strange when Hornby announced an all-new 87 in preference to an 86. The 86 seemed (to me) like the obvious choice to renew first since there were so many different sub classes and liveries carried compared to the 87 (and, unlike the old 87, the old 86 was actually a Hornby design/product!). Anyway, they obviously thought there was a market there to justify it. What WOULD be good from Hornby is a re-issue of their Class 82/1 DVT, as since it first came out all-new versions of 86, 87 and 90 have come on the scene and for anyone who models the Intercity or Virgin era, a DVT is must. They are pretty scarce now and judging by the inflated (£100+) price they currently sell for on eBay, very much in demand! Also, unlike those rather strange DVT/90 "Charter packs" that Hornby sold a while back, an 87/DVT pack would stack up as a package without the 25 year age gap between the two models being immediately and painfully obvious...

The 91 was photographed on my small home layout, the AL6 was on a local club layout. My layout will (eventually) bare some resemblance to Crewe electric depot.

Looking at the price list I noticed that for the 4-car kits Bratchell charge and incredible £72 for the wheel sets and bearings which add significantly to the overall price! Are they worth it in your opinion, or is it better value to source alternatives elsewhere? The basic kit is about £180 which seems fair enough for a 4 car unit, but then there is the cost of a motor, pantograph, wheel sets, paints and transfers to add to that so it ends up being rather more expensive than it first appears. I suppose you can at least spread the cost out over time. I've always been puzzled why non of the mainstream manufactures took on the Class 320/321/322, since they are quite prolific, cover a wide range of locations, and have carried many different liveries over the 30+ year careers. The 319s are another interesting class due to their broad and varied history and remarkably large operating area, which includes the southern region. Bachmann made the curious decision to produce the Class 350 instead which is a very nice model, but covers a comparatively narrow operating area/period. Speaking of Bachmann, I wonder if they offer the Class 90 pantograph and roof bits as spares? They would be of the correct type for this class. Failing that I might actually have one or two of the old Hornby ones in my box of spares if you are stuck...

I've been toying with the idea of doing one of the class 321/9 models for a while, but never actually seen the contents of these kits so this is quite interesting. I tried building a DC kits class 304 quite some time ago and found it rather difficult, though the end result wasn't too bad. This looks like it might be rather easier to construct (?). I never thought I'd miss these humdrum units but now they are gone (the small fleet of Northern ones at least) I am feeling nostalgic for them and the WYPTE red livery was quite attractive. PS you could do with some better insulators/pantograph bits for the roof, those parts look very low-res/toy like on this otherwise nice model.

Thanks! I'm glad you like them. I am currently working on an 82 for someone else as it happens, and an 86/4 for my own collection. I used RailMatch Rail Blue for the body and Rail Grey for the roof, and white mixed with a tiny bit of Rail grey for cab ends. One thing that is often missed about the original AL6 livery is the colour of the cab ends was not actually white, but a very light grey. It isn't immediately obvious until you see it next to an 85 for instance that you notice the subtle colour difference. There is a photo on flickr of the two side by side circa 1966, I will see if I can find it.

Totally, completely missing the point.. but, we're gonna end up completely off topic if we go down that avenue so lets just leave it there.

Lovely Note that 3134 has the longer cab roof gutters that I mentioned in a previous post. I think I like the look of the earlier batch best as they carried the contrasting red buffer beam which gives the front end a little more presence IMO.

On a different note - A couple of examples of modelling on a budget - Here is a Class 91 and 86 (AL6) I did a few years back. Both started out as cheap second hand Hornby items off eBay. The 91 was repainted, fitted with Shawplan nameplates, PH designs side skirts, modified class 92 pantograph, some tweaks to the bogie frames and my own LED lighting system using 1.5mm fiber optic cable. The AL6 (my third attempt at one), and was a full repaint with Craftsman 86/0 conversion kit (anyone know what happened to them?), adapted Sommerfeld SF968 pantograph, SouthEastern flush glaze and as with the 91, etched details by shawplan. I think each one cost me around of £60 in total to make including the donor locos. That said, I will definitely be buying the new releases of these models when they become available, as much for the smoothness and quietness of the mechanism and enhanced lighting options as for the overall appearance.