APT Fan

Good afternoon, I've just converted a couple of Lima locos to DCC, which will obviously run on DC too. They run fine but lack a decent top speed, I'm assuming that these are quite a few years old now and I'm wondering whether it is worth replacing the motor or if it is even feasible? Thanks

Its a moot point for me. As a modeler you need to consider what the temperature of LED you have available, value of load resistor you decide upon and what 'colour' of lens the light is passing through. Even 'clear' light tubes will effect the colour seen, I often paint red lenses fitted with red LEDs with red paint to get a deeper colour. Some people prefer brighter lights, some don't, sometimes I'll change the brightness with the CV setting. In terms of authenticity, again there are lots of things to consider, who serviced the loco, what bulbs did they fit, what wattage, what lighting unit was fitted, has it been updated, if so when, are the lights covered in coal dust etc. So it isn't surprising that when you study pictures there are significant variances and I'm not sure I'd go with VHS images as it wasn't a great technology for colour reproduction. Some of the images for spot lighting below look very bright to me so I don't think there is any right or wrong answer, but I would agree that yellow is probably better for the older headcode units which weren't designed for high wattage bulbs. https://railrevisited.blogspot.com/2019/06/1980s-pictorial-diesels-at-birmingham-new-street.html

I wonder if Hornby are going to re-design the 87 so that you can actually fit a decoder and speaker inside the body. I'm interested in one but I don't think I'd pre-order until I know more about its design.

I have two loco's at adresses 5 and 6 with an advanced consist address of 20. Sometimes they become jerky, I've checked the BEMF CV57 in 5,6 and 20 and all are set to 0. Is there anything else worth checking? Thanks

I didn't think so either, the decoders use FET output stages don't they? The resistor comment confused me and I assumed it was for protection. Without it, its just open circuit, but I would have thought short circuits is the thing to guard against.

I'm not sure how to fit an unpowered bogie as they have different mountings.

The to protect the output stage of the decoder? I suppose a decoder without motor control could be fitted? Actually I might have a faulty one with a dodgy output stage, I might see if if can still control lights.

Would it be possible to avoid fitting the resistor by disabling back emf? I'm not sure I'm going to fit a decoder, I might just with a rectifier with a switch mounted in the chassis for the lighting à la Bachmann.

Good morning, I've ended up with a fleet 56s of various vintages and most have been converted to DCC. I'm interested in double heading and looked into DCC consisting which has proven problematic. I have a spare 56 Mainline chassis and was thinking of removing / disabling the motor so that it can be used to act as a towed 'double head'. I'll probably put a rectifier in there too to power the lighting of a DCC converted body. Does anybody have any experience with this? Thank you in advance

I did manage to get a really good deal on my loco, but it is an expensive bit of kit to be modifying and I'm not sure I'd be as ambitious for now. You've mentioned about the handrails and I do feel that the detailing is quite flimsy, those hooks on the bogie just underneath the buffers always seem to snap off and the bogie pipework detail pops off if you pick it up with your fingers in the wrong place. Its a bit heart in mouth when handling it and you need to be careful not to damage it. The lighting connectors are a bit iffy and I've noticed very slight bodywork defects where the screw studs have been moulded into the roof, so there are a couple of quality issues. The standard Lok 5 sound decoder fits with the standard sugercube speaker but I've mounted it above the rear drive shaft using some plasticard, it fits as its probably the smallest speaker available but the point it that it hasn't really been 'provisioned for'. I don't really have a big issue with the light colour as I've always assumed the 56 spotlights were tungsten halogen even back in the day rather than incandescent. The yellow LEDs didn't quite look like the right temperature so I've used white's on the Dapol / Mainline 56s that I've converted. I've just converted a Lima 47 and 50 and used yellows for the headcode / cab lights and whites for the spotlights. I think Bachmman use this approach on their 47s. The lights look a little blue on your picture, but I didn't get that feeling when I studied them. This is a picture of the Hornby 56 with factory fitted lighting and a Mainline 56 with the whites I'd fitted, the photo was taken in daylight on a phone camera.

Nice to see the 56 in the large logo livery, would have liked one last year but had to settle for 56 108 in RF livery, but it is a fantastic model in terms of detail and electrical drive systems. There is however a lack of provisioning from a DCC point of view. It doesn't have cab lights or the ability to switch off the rear lights for when its pulling a load, there is also a lack of space for fitting a sound decoder and speaker. I find Hornby's decision to stick with an 8 pin socket very odd and immediately limits the DCC functionality that can be controlled, perhaps thats why we only get front and rear lights. It's disappointing in this day and age - are Hornby expecting most of their customers to be still using analogue DC systems? They seem to be way behind many other manufacturers from that point of view. The fans in my model don't rotate, but it isn't a big deal as I think the belt driven fan system seems to be a flawed idea to me. Ideally the fan system should be electrically operated but I appreciate this maybe impractical.

I'm sure I saw 47593 at Crewe on Monday?

I think it would make a nice DCC project, sound might be a problem but I'm sure lights could be added.

I've seen this:- https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/br-bagnall-0-4-0dh-01426-era-7.html But I don't understand what it is? It appears to be numbered as a class 01 but it doesn't look like one?

I'm not sure there has been any criticism of the actual product on here. I have questioned the pricing, which has now been clearly explained to me which I accept the answer. I also appreciate that my questions were due to a lack of knowledge but I'm here to learn. I also think that a lot of other forum members are here to learn too and are genuinely interested in how these things work. Just because people question things, especially within this sort of media does not make it a criticism and I really wouldn't be too sensitive about it if I were you.

Thanks that's a really good post and its prompted further reading for me. It is interesting to read BEMF described as closed loop control for speed control when really the speed has been estimated from the BEMF. True closed loop speed control would use speed measurement too, obviously not very practical for these applications. I can see why the BEMF loops would fight each other, I've read that perhaps tuning could improve this but to me it feels like you are chasing the wrong parameter (speed). Once you've carried out 'speed profiling' do you ever have to revisit it for I don't know gear wear or given that these motors are permanent magnetics, any loss of 'magnetism' with age? I still can't quite reconcille the comment about 'they'll even themselves out' on DC though. I'm just thinking about putting two locos on a DC test track when one is clearly faster than the other one, it eventually catches the other one up and starts pushing the other one. It doesn't look good and can't be healthy, okay that's an extreme example but any discrepancy is probably not a good idea.

That's right Baz 'am' not were. You seem to have got the hump for some reason.

So how would that work if you buy the Analog DC version of this DMU, given that it is designed with two motors? Would you expect the motors and gears to match?

I think you make a fair point, I haven't seen either in the flesh but from what I have seen, the Realtrack model is infintely better than the Hornby model. I could be mistaken but it looks like they've used the Lima tooling to me, so Hornby are indeed offering a budget model. You have also mentioned different price points for your models and people could enter at the non DCC price point. If they were then looking to add the sound, say six months later, would the units need to be returned to the factory or could the cards be sent out?

It's been a tough year, I've lost a few family members to cancer, worst of all my mam. Other family members are also battling cancer and may not have long left. My missus has today just tested postive for covid and I'm awaiting my results, we're both worried about our remaining elderly parents who have been ill too. So yes, its been quite a stressful year all told. However the lockdown did give me the opportunity to finally clear out my loft and I found my old Lima and Hornby sets, it reintroduced me to the hobby after many years away from it. Reading about the hobby and working on the models has provided me with an excellent escape from the intensity of working from home which has also been stressful in itself. I've worked far too many hours this year without a break and felt mentally drained and burnt out on a few occasions. Allowing one's mind to escape to another world has been a great tonic! I do enjoy reading your thread and always look for the updates as most of the content is the era I'm interested in, keep up the good work and the updates! I too would like to wish all the forum members the very best for Christmas and New year, stay safe and healthy, and keep an eye on the family. Let's hope the New Year brings in some cheer.

The issue here is having to pay twice for the sound decoder and no compromise is being offered, so its £180 for two sound chips with the files that contain the IP, when one is arguably redundant. Compare that number to something like the Hornby Class 43 TTS sound decoder pair for say £60. The two sound decoders for the 43's make more sense because the cars at either end of a (long) train, whereas these cars are next to each other here. I get that a lot of hard work is involved in creating the sound files and doing the synchronisation etc. and quite rightly people expect to get paid for their intellectual property rights. I think this particular application could be acheived with a single sound decoder and a standard motor controller which is a fraction of the cost. I appreciate that some speed matching would be required, but that needs doing either way. The point I was making earlier about hardware / software costs, I tend to think about the copyright costs for music. I've been a David Bowie fan since I was a kid and bought one of his albums on a cassette, I than wanted on LP so had to pay again. When it came out on CD, I had to pay for a third time despite already paying for that copyright. I should really only be paying for the price of the media rather than the full costs, but that's just how it is apparently. I really don't mean to be controversial, I'm an engineer and when faced with a problem I try to look at it objectively and ask questions, which might be difficult to answer. When something needs fixing, I ask myself how will I fix it rather than who will fix it, maybe that's just in my nature. I'm also not having a go at anyone who is prepared to pay the £400, its a personal choice. I might save my cash for the new Hornby APT-P which is in a similar price bracket and would only need a single sound decoder.

Yeah we discussed this in the 'Consist' thread including matching sound/no sound. I wanted to consist two identical locos with identical decoders and guess what, their speeds were slightly different so needed matching. You'd hope these would be better matched, so should be more straight forward.

Why do you need a 'pair'? Couldn't you fit a single sound decoder in the leading car and a multi function one in the trailer? I've seen the LOKSOUND V5 class 156 for £93 and a Zimo MX638D for £20. Look I'm not trying to have a go at you, but I am becoming disillusioned with the hobby because of the prices we are having to pay nowadays.

Well that was a bit nerve wracking! So I put a small screwdriver at the top of the cab wall and turned it in order to break the glue seal at each side of the joining point with the glazing unit. Despite the cab removed the galzing unit still wouldn't come out until I prized the windscreen from the front frame using a screwdriver again. Phew! On with the painting the inside now to prevent light bleed when the lighting is fitted. Its the large logo version and I have to say that despite its age, this is a really nice model. Thanks for the replies.

Good Evening, Does anybody have any experience of removing the glazing units from a Lima Class 50? It looks like the cab is glued into the glazing unit as it is difficult to seperate them, but I can't be sure. Thanks