glo41f

The signalman with the token is surely on the wrong track to pass it to the oncoming train? Did LB M&GN box have the Whittaker exchange apparatus? That would make an interesting piece of lineside kit. That lever frame is magnificent. Martin Long

Thank you for clarifying the issue regarding the provenance of the 309 units. I am off to Kettering for the show and will there try to source the Mk 1 bits as it will be an intersting thing to do and possible without a soldering iron involved! I never cease to be amazed by the wealth and depth of experience on this thread. It is like no other on the web. I do not spend hours on the web but I do look each day to see what has gone on. I am usually too cold by then if I have been in the shed or the garage doing things. I also get inspiration from the postings and especially the pictures and it is great top be in the company of like minded souls albeit that we all have different interests and focus. Nonetheless I feel it is true that we all appreciate good modelling and I for one am grateful to Tony for starting the thread and for drip feeding some gems from time to time. As to Falcon, I believe it was tried on the GE mail line for a while before we had the 47's drafted in. I never saw it but it is a handsome beast. I wonder could it have arrived in North Norfolk on its trials? Thank you gents for keeping the spirits up! Martin Long

Back to the 309's and a quote " Others rushed to have a seat in an ex first class compartment of the Walton sets, no taste." Sir I always went for this and,even if I say so myself, have exquisite taste! In a similar vein, the 16.50 from L'pool Street which at that time, ran right through to Lowestoft had two down rated firsts in the make up of the set and again those of us in the know made a beeline for these coaches. I was not aware that the 309s had anything but "standard" mark 1 sides. Drat! as that puts my ideas of trying to make a two car set rather a non starter. By the way Bob, your 2mm set looks good. How do you get on for the Overhead in 2mm? Good stuff on here as ever. Martin Long

Oh the 309's! Possibly the best ever EMU's. Fast and comfortable and handsome when they were new with the big wrap around windows. I spent may hours on them up and down to L'Pool Street and always looked out for a set when returning home. I would love to model one but the complex front curves are very difficult though you can use a Mark one for the main body. It would suit a resin type casting. Any takers (in 7mm)? Martin Long

Tony Thank you for the pictures of Barrie's locos.Miles better than my snaps though I do have a number of them taken over the years and can put more on here if folk are interested enough.. Barrie was a 4mm modeller until the 70's when he had a go at building 31/2 gauge live steam. (It was a Thompson Loco an A2). Then he went to 0 scale and the rest is history. He is one of the most prolific modellers in the country. As well as scratch building over 100 locomotives, he has built over 100 coaches and nearly 200 wagons (though some of these are from kits). All the trackwork and infrastructure to the line he has made too including the wiring and control systems. Such dedication is totally admirable and something I cannot hope to emulate as I do not have a clue about electrics! Truly one of our modelling "greats" though he would never admit this. Martin Long

Chaps Things seem to be getting heated here of late. We are here to share our love of well made models especially if they are of East Coast provenance. There is no body better at this in my view than Barrie Walls and here is a picture from his layout showing several locos all in 7mm and all of them made by him from scratch materials (Cast iron wheels so no problems there either) The picture is of the approach to Leasham Cross looking over the loco depot where a variety of types are on shed. There are not many 0 scale layouts that can accommodate the mighty pacifics without looking cramped. It just goes to show that east coast types do it with style! Martin Long

I hope to be at York and now I see there is a bonus with Borchester being there. Are there bookings for seats please? Glad to learn that you are getting the gremlins sorted. I think you are right in getting a stud of locos that are reliable as that was Frank's way. It will certainly add to my joy of going to York again. Will TW be with you all the time? Martin Long

If the reason for "paunch level" layouts is due to the desire to let children easily see them I feel it is a flawed reason. If my grandsprogs are anything to go by, they are totally uninterested in fine detail and "realism" and only Thomas pushes their buttons. Do we seriously build layouts to show the public fine detail and the artistry the hobby engenders, purely to entertain the kids? Martin Long

May I be permitted to add something to the rather eclectic mix of topics on this thread? I and many others have been greatly inspired by some of the amazing pictures of various models shown from time to time. Indeed, it is often difficult to realise that the picture is of a model rather than a full size machine running on the big railway. There has been a development in magazine photography too where the illustrations are taken from an eye level viewpoint (which often emphasises the awful trackwork but that is another matter!). When I thought about why these images struck such a powerful chord, I twigged that the bulk of them took the view point of a bystander at the lineside or platform. So we were seeing the “real life” view as it were and all the detail and paint techniques were shown to their best. In anticipation of your agreement thus far, why then do we make out layouts so low? So much so that when you go to exhibitions you get a birds eye view of a lot of moving roofs! Why do we not pitch the model a good foot or so higher so you can readily appreciate the full detail of the scene? I have to say that one of the hobby’s luminaries, Mr Iain Rice, was advocating higher model railways in the 1970s yet few seem have taken this to heart. It seems to be that there is a design tenet that all model layouts should be a paunch height rather than chest! This even applies to fixed systems which never leave their sheds or rooms. My own railway, which is an ex display model, at least has the advantage that you can sit down and get the all important eye level view. A higher staging for a model allows easier maintenance too. So why, if we continue to make layouts 3 and a half feet high, do we forget all the lower detail and just get the roofs right? Does anyone know the answer to this? Martin Long

Hope under Dinmore seems to have addressed the issue of hiding curves very well indeed and I would say a worthy winner. That B17 really is the business too. They are handsome locos even if the real thing was not one of Sir Nigel's best efforts. ( I know a former loco works fitter who has very strong opinions on these locos and cannot understand why anyone wants to make a new one!) ( I have been casting about for some of my 4mm old things but find that they have all been scrapped so no piccies from me!) Thank you for the pictures.

Just remembered! There were some kits under the name of "Bristol Models" mainly GWR types. Regularly advertised in the Railway Modeller. I did see these and thought they were pretty good for the time with chunky and well formed parts. Do they survive in any form? They were quite reasonably proices and I thonk could be purchased with brass frames as an extra. (Did the supplier come from Weston super Mare?)

The pictures you show Gilbert are always fascinating. There are some which a person would have great difficulty in not thinking it was of the real P'Boro. Just love it and please keep them coming. On the matter of the engine changes on the GN, I have a friend who was a fireman at top shed. His regular engine was Quicksilver. He has many tales to tell but one was of the whistling point north of Grantham. Apparently when a crew passed this they were on a better hourly rate so celebrated by whistling long and loud! If they got that far without relief it meant they were clear to York and a (for those days) pay bonus. He also tells a tale of finding a huge lump of coal which jammed the tender shovel space. After a lot of grunting and heaving he managed to get it out onto the footplate. It was too large for the box and his mate said he should push it over the side. When a suitable clear point was reached (the train doing about 75 mph) his mate gave him the nod and over the side the lump went. Much to the crew's horror it took on the attributes of a bouncing bomb and chased the train along the lineside cess. It eventually encountered a platelayers hut and crashed into it demolishing it completely. Fortunately there was no body in the hut but he said there were tools and all manner of items flung up into the air. When steam finished so did he and went on to run a very successful garage business. Marin Long

The early Cornard kits were pretty awful too. I had one of their B17s following an article on constructing one in the MRC (I think it was written by Tony East). Suffice it to say that the castings were bent and very thin so it was impossible to get the boiler circular in section throughout its length. The footplate had several bends which the prototype nevr had and the tender was also out of square, How Mr East made his model I do not know. How cheered I was then by the arrival of the original Hornby model with its awful (by today's standards) valve gear and push along loco. (Again I recall the loco had mountings for a motor on the chassis which I used to get rid of the tender drive.) I also recall a WD which was supposed to go on a Jouef chassis. Yet another disaster. You would think I would have learned from the B17 but no hope sprang eternal! That is when I decided that if I was to have a 4mm layout it would be diesel outline so began a period of blue diesels which ran around my garage quite well. Then I saw the light....... Martin Long

I am glad that I am not the only one to find that following David Jenkinson's techniques for building coaches rather difficult. I found it so hard to get all the windows cut in the same plane and in 7mm the sides came out very large (more than a standard sheet of plasticard) As to cutting the "doily" for the panelling well, this was the way to the asylum. The process could be made so much easier now by using laser cutting and there is an outfit called AMD who are doing just that. Makes it so easy.I do find though that there is as much time in making a coach as there is a loco so prefer to use RTR coaches where they are available. En passant, you chaps are putting some cracking pictures on this thread. There are some mighty talented folk hereabouts. Martin Long Stationmaster Happisburgh

What a most interesting gallop this is turning out to be! I too never had a modelling teacher as such but there was a chap who had only one arm who lived in my road and he was an EM modeller and made exquisite Southern coaches and EMUs out of shellacked card (E Rankin Gray - Cardboard Rolling Stock and how to build it - Who still has a copy besides me?). He showed me the techniques he used but I was then too young to really appreciate what he was achieving. But I did learn that it could be done. I have persevered over the years with some almighty failures and some successes (more of the former) and had a lot of fun along the way. I think today's modeller has it easy by comparison to the 1950s and 60s. However, given the models, the resulting layouts are often mediocre and boring hence perhaps the Editor of Model Rail's change of tack. In those early days too, there were so few magazines by comparison with today's over supply. I found it interesting too, to learn that some fine modellers do not want their work published. I have to say that is not my experience. It is rather the case that they feel uncomfortable with writing and composition so they chose to stay off the radar so to speak. I have written up two layouts for one such person who is overjoyed at the prospect of publication. Thanks to all you contributors who bring such pleasure. Martin Long

That little bit of the M&GN really looks the part. I would suggest that one starts with a "broad brush" as TW described but the process is subject to refinement as time passes and the little details come along in their own good time. What would be terrific is a smoke generator or "mister" situated in the gap between the bridge and the backscene which would be triggered by an emerging train to produce a cloud of "steam" (bit like John Dornom did with his shed scene). Have to ask though why most of the pictures of the M&GN at LB feature 4fs rather than 4MTs? (Cannot have too many 4mts on an M&GN line!) Striking work Tony and encourages us all to try harder and do better. Now off to the shed to try and find the brake blocks I so carefully made yesterday which disappeared Lord knows where. Perhaps I should regress to 4mm and just run those beautiful models which are now readily available. Now where is the shed catalogue? Martin Long

Well Bob you would say that as you are one of those infuriatingly talented modellers! The rest of us have yet to reach nirvana. Hope you are OK. Martin Long

There is one of many things which really get me steaming and TW you have touched on it! "I'm building it for a mate, so I'll see how I get on. Ben Jones at BRM wants an article on it. Has anyone written about such a kit before? Has anyone built one of these? If so, any chance of any comments or pictures, please? " Why oh why do magazine editors ask for articles on topics which the readers cannot repeat themselves. It is one thing to describe the building of a model which we can all go out and try and replicate but quite another to have an article on something that someone has found many years after the manufacturer has moved on. They are all guilty. Even MRJ had articles on building Sayer Chaplin kits which ceased being issued in the 1950s. Why for heavens sake? We pay good money for these mags and the very least the Editor can do is to keep them relevant and topical thereby encouraging us to rise to greater heights in our modelling journey. There must be hundreds of topics out there which Editors can utilise without dragging up the construction of resurrected dinosaurs that someone has discovered in a box in the shed. I dare say you will all disagree. (The Editor of the GOG Gazette did when I upbraided him on the same topic!) Apologies for the rant! Martin Long

Has anyone seen the picture of the Rocar Mark 1 in the latest MRJ? It is absolutely stunning and shows what can be done by a real craftsman. For such a mundane subject as a standard coach, Mr Cooper has made a masterpiece.Surely this is the way we should be taking the hobby forward? Martin Long

Dinosaur that I am, perhaps you cutting edge 4mm types can explain something. There have been several allusions on this thread to folk putting a Comet underframe under a commercially produced body. In the old days you could purchase body castings very reasonably. With RTR models now often into 3 figures, can you still purchase the bodies as spares or do you purchase the RTR and ditch the mechanisms? If that is the case it makes for a very expensive hobby. The HornbyJ50 looks the business, if too clean and without the bumps dents and scratches of service life. Looking forward to seeing a worked up one on this thread. You 4mm types really have easy these days! Martin Long

Steve What a marvellous system you have made. It positively reeks of the area (where \i too worked for a number of years.) You are to be congratulate in some very clever use of commercial items which you have tweaked very well. Inspirational stuff. Well done. Martin Long Stationmaster Happisburgh

Wow! Cricket and Grammar I ask you! What thread on any forum gets into discussions on subjunctives and other minutiae of our wonderful language. What an amazing learned lot you all are! (Shall we discuss the full implications of the madness of King Lear now?) I just love it. The train related topics are not bad either. I feel the general consensus is toward weathering models. I was at the SVR recently and one of their big green ones, highly polished and gleaming from the side, from the top (A modellers viewpoint) there was an oily black/brown staining along the boiler barrel. If one is weathering I find the hardest parts to get right are the valve gear and connecting rods. A dirty oily finish is very hard to emulate and believe me, I have tried. Any tips? Martin Long

Neil Corners layout was described in a very early Modeller's Backtrack. The accompanying words were on the the lines that Neil wanted to take over the mantle of Mr Norris and to this end had acquired some of the stock and buildings from the Norris layout. As far as I am aware the layout has never again appeared in print though I would love to know more about it. If anyone has more info I for one would be glad to learn more. I also found those Royal Scots mentioned superb. If only........(sigh). On the weathering topic, do we wish to have "realistic" models that portray the prototypes as they were or pristine show case examples which would protect the owner's investment? (I am not so sure that still applies today). I am with our guru Mr W.on this one and prefer my locos and stock to look as if they worked rather than they have just come out of a museum. Perhpas that will affect the resale value when I am no longer able to play. Should that concern me? Martin Long

Interesting that Willie Wizz was told exactly the same as me when I was working in a Bank! However, in those days we took pride in our work and the standards expected were high. I was sorry to leave but I think I went at the right time as it all went downhill and a professional approach was no longer required. Indeed the ability to construct a letter seems impossible these days! On the subject of "professional" model builders, one of my acquaintances commissioned a K3 class in 7mm from one such. When it was delivered he was almost in tears as it was a disaster. Another asked for a GWR King from another builder and it was delivered built out of square and painted dreadfully. The builder refused to rectify the loco saying that my friend had unreasonable expectations for the money! I am sure there are many similar horror stories in the naked city! It is dreadful when a fellow hoobyist gets ripped off but I do not know how to "police" this aspect of the hobby. Far better to make your own mistakes which will undoubtedly be unique! (I have plenty!) Martin Long

Again interesting stuff here. I think I am with Mr Gee on this one as I regard operation as the prime feature of a layout. That is not to say that I am not moved by the other styles of layout such as LB (I am and was transported back to my spotting days beside the lines so wonderfully.) For sheer interest though you have to operate and be up against it. The late Frank Roomes had a very intensively operated layout which had very tight curves in 7mm. You soon learned to filter out the unrealistic curves and train lengths in the effort of keeping to the timetable. The same happens on Wallsea and the Mid Norfolk Joint Railway. The satisfaction when the whole exercise "gels" and trains are seamlessly processed to their destinations is palpable. The multi level layouts can really never compete scenically but I bet there are terrific fun to play with. Oh that we had basements here! (One house I owned had such a thing and the builders backfilled the basement with rubble etc. to make solid floors. I pleaded to leave the excavated hole but to no avail. Martin Long