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Interesting as ever here. The time factor is one we all face to a greater or lesser extent. My original dream was the ECML followed after reflection by the GE main line. Neither happened and I am acutely aware of the fact that the cup is emptying rapidly so much so that I am disposing of models where I feel they would be better appreciated by others. What has bought this on? The passing of two friends recently and being tasked with sorting out their stuff. I do not want to put anyone through that if I can help it. At my club last night there was talk about a new layout project which was outlined as possibly taking 5/7 years ti get to the required standard. I looked around at those attending and felt we would be lucky to see it through! However I was greatly cheered after when a young lad produced his Adams 4-4-2 t and and the Lyme Regis branch set which looked lovely. If only that sort of thing had been available 30 years ago! Frankly I cannot blame anyone for buying time by using RTR products where they are suitable though I much prefer to make my own from adapting kits and the like as advocated here. I think that LB is the apogee of what I would have liked to achieve all those years ago. I can revel in Tony's creation. Thanks. Martin

Just back from the GOG show at Doncaster. Did not see much as I was on duty in the office but seems to have been a good and happy event. I was driving up the A1 and was struck with all the places passed which have gone into ECML folk law. I tried and failed to see where the branch from Highdyke crossed the road (there used to be a bridge!). Came to Retford and immediately thought of Roy Jackson! I see that you have been there recently Tony. Would it be too much to ask for some pictures of the layout to be posted so that those of us who admire from afar in a place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth in frustration can view the nirvana that Retford represents? (LB does not merit a mention on the A1 only Castle Bytham.) Martin Long

Well the inspirational pictures just keep coming do they not? What a pleasure it is to be transported back to what I and many here would say were the good old days (but I accept that this was not the case in reality). I just lose myself looking at the wonderful images and recalling those times. The recent weathered locos are just stunning and so realistic. You really spoil us Gilbert! Thank you Martin Long

I attended Railex which I thought was very good and the exhibits of a very high standard. I too noticed the derailments of the lovely diorama and was sad for the operators who looked a bit fed up. The Tollesbury line (situated not far from me) was brilliant and I have never seen water used in that way before. All in all an inspirational show and well done to the organisers. (Best of all I was not tempted to spend money as there was no 7mm stuff on offer. That will change no doubt next week when the GOG Doncaster Show is on!) Martin Long

I feel that "impressionist" point rodding is probably the best we can hope for in our small scales. One thing that I have never quite grasped (along with so many matters), is that frequently the rodding is shown bolted to timber which in turn lies in the ballast. Now the forces that atre involves with a longish run must be quite large despite the compensating that the runs incorporate, Why then does the timber stay put and not try and rotate with the forces applied? Again the timber is exposed to all weathers and would rapidly deteriorate so presumably S&T were out on renewals a lot of the time?

Lovely pictures thank you Tony. I guess the point rodding is a pain (I have wimped out of it ). However when there it does look the business and adds to the overall picture. I can remember one 4mm layout in days of yore where it all worked. That must have been a real labour of love. Martin Long

Thank you so much for all the effort expended on the locations etc. Wonderful stuff and it all goes to show that FD's vision was entirely feasible. I knew FD during his time in London at the MRC and he was a very kindly and helpful person. To me his layouts especially BM are the apogee of what a model system should be. I am so please that it all was saved and not scrapped and that the new owners are even extending what FD created. Are you able to say when it's next outing is please? Martin Long

It is so good to see all the pictures of models that this thread has inspired. You must feel very happy TW to have been the catalyst for this as so many have now taken the plunge and produced something of their own. Wonderful! As a youngster, cameras were not an option as they were expensive and the film was more so. So I have very few pictures of what are now called the "black and white days" . Thise I have are not best quality but they do show an age that has passed. To be honest, I would rather watch the trains go by than squint down a camera lens! I find this is still that case on going to heritage lines where so many only see the drama in front of them through a small screen. I always take my camera but rarely use it and when I do I take detail pictures of things like valve gear and the like so I can use the results for future reference. That said I am eternally grateful to all of you chaps who did persevere with the camera and as a result have given us a rich treasury of images which both inspire and inform. Thank you. Martin Long

"I have a question about the width of the main LB station layout. How do you reach across the width of it? I get mail order catalogs from the US (hence the spelling) that have an ingenious device that allows modellers to reach way over their layouts without damaging scenery. Do you have such a thing? If not how do you manage? It's a serious question because for the life of me I don't know how you placed much of the scenery." I too have this issue and I tried to order one of these which seemed to be the answer. They will not ship to the UK! So unless I can find a "tame\" US serviceman to use his address, the chances of getting one of these are very remote. If anyone knows different I would be delighted to hear from them. Martin Long

Have you tried cutting a quadrant out of the side play washers so that they slip over the axle and can be inserted behind the wheel? It works (I have done the same) and the washers seem to stay in place with no problems. Martin Long

Most interesting pictures. Even though monochrome they show the real work a day locomotives doing their job. No gloss varnish here! They also show what lovely locomotives the V2's were. The proportions are just right and their versatility was just what the railway needed. When my late friend Gerry Brown was involved with making the masters for the then new Nucast kit, I was very taken with the resulting locomotives he built as tests of the kit. I tried then to justify having a V2 on a GE themed layout and was delighted to learn that March had an allocation but sadly they all worked north over the Joint rather than into the wider Anglia area. For a GN modeller the dictum to add a V2 must still apply. I still think they are marvellous and find my resistance waning fast. This is not helped by the fact that an A4 is on order from Hattons and that takes some justification in East Norfolk! I suppose I could relocate my station to Lincolnshire on the same premise that Barrie Walls used on the original Wallsea where trains worked to Kings Cross and Liverpool Street. In fact that is an elegant solution apart from the fact that my turntable is 55 feet! Martin Long

Gents A while back I posted that I had some files of drawings which were collected by a deceased friend over many years. The LNWR and LMS files have been spoken for but I still have a file for the SR and constituents and, of course the GW. If anyone would like these please PM me with you address and I will send them on in the hope that they may be of use/interest. Those latest shots of LB with the sky etc are just wonderful. They evoke memories of a time when things seemed to be better though we were materially worse off and allegedly 4 minutes away from annihilation. I really feel despite that we were more content and happier (even though I never got the Dublo Duchess!) Thanks for the inspiration Martin Long

A few pages ago, folk were mentioning about drawings in old magazines and lamenting their demise. I have the sad task of disposing of a former modellers "treasures" and he was assiduous in collecting drawings when they were published. He was a true scratch builder and kept these for future reference. I do not want to destroy the collections which are in folders based on the railways or groups they relate to. So there is an SR, LMS, GW and LNWR folder. (There is also an LNER one but I will keep that one!). If anyone is interested in having the folders of the other railways, please PM me and I will arrange to pass them on to you. His estate is going to charity so any contribution would be great. Regards Martin Long

Andrew P, Lovely pictures which I greatly enjoyed. Thank you for posting these. LB really is something else in the modelling world. I have been reading with interest the gallop on Cheque Book Modelling. To my way of thinking this is not a bad thing for the hobby. It he;sp to re distribute resources and the results serve to encourage those of us with lesser skills to try harder. We are all of a certain age and the ambition /time graph is not in our favour. If you are fortunate enough to have the money then I cannot blame you for buying in items that you would never have the time or ability to fabricate. However, I would not condone passing the results off as ones own work and such statements will inevitably be found out if made. It strikes me that the "horse trading" oft mentioned here is actually the same process though cash does not change hands. It is surely a recognition that our talents are limited and there are folk out there who are able and better placed to produce what is needed at the time. What a lovely thread this is! Martin Long

I too worked in the civil service then a bank and rose to fairly giddy heights in the Head Office. There despite a rigid hierarchy as to roles and responsibilities, it was all Christian names up to the General Manager and he too would say to folk to call him by his given name. The branches too were going that way with the longer established staff. At branch level we tried to know our customers and usually did so with the ones who were always in debt or causing problems. The ones who had large balances (which in fact were the ones who made the profits) were pretty much unknown to anyone and did not get the recognition they merited. I have to say that I loath today's familiarity but I put that down to the rather egalitarian expectations that our education system now promulgates that "I am as good as you" and prizes for all. I think the worst is when you see carers addressing elderly folk who were always bought up to call each other by their names (Mr Smith, Mrs Brown etc.) saying" hello Kathleen how are you?". My granny hated it as it was alien to her way of life. It may be one bit of US culture that I would not mind emulating! Martin Long

I just love those pictures of LB with the recent building additions. It shows the railway in a landscape which is not usually an attribute of a 4mm layout. The new additions down Station Road show a marked contrast in greenery to the embankments where the "grass" seems a tad dead! Perhaps time to be out with the magic grassing tool Mr W. You must be delighted now that it is all coming together as you first envisaged. There now must be a large number of photo locations to try out. I particularly like the trains on the embankments as they equate to a view that we would have if we were walking up the road. All in all a fantastic layout and one that will prove inspirational to us all. Martin Long

Nice to see some GE stuff displayed here. That livery was one of the most attractive along with the SE&CR and the Great Central. It must have been lovely to see those engines in their prime when they were well tended and loved. There is nothing wrong with the models that a judicious flattening would not cure. I made a Gibson J15 once and finished it in scruffy black which is how I remember them. Seeing this one makes me wish I had done it in GE blue. Too late now. I have a friend who has an extensive GE layout with the locos in blue and GE black and seeing it evokes an era long gone where the world was more happy perhaps. Then came WW1! I hope these find excellent new homes. Martin Long

Thanks for the picture of the Caledonian with its attendant maroon stock. This triggered memories of the Dublo "City of London|" which I wanted so much when it was released. I think it was over £7 which was way beyond my means then. The Binns Road publicity machine would have loved this picture. Memo to self to get a Princess Coronation! Happy days in retrospect. Martin Long

I am in the throes of making a 7mm model of D202 which worked on the GE. I am using a JLTRT kit which is great. I have reached the stage where I need to paint the cabs. I have some B&W pictures which indicate that the cabs as delivered were white or light grey or white. I cannot tell. Can anyone please give me a definitive answer as to the cab colour? Thanks in advance. Martin Long

Seeing the pictures of multiple trains passing or at rest at LB, I wondered about the status of the box. Was it staffed by two men or one man and a lad? It must have been a very busy place with commensurate pay status for the workers therein. As i get older I am becoming more fascinated by the signalling of our railways. When I started in this game I wanted to be an engine driver (did not everyone?) even going as far as making enquiries at Ipswich shed as to the likelihood of a position there. I was told that would be possible and on announcing the news that evening, my mother went ballistic and said that I was not going to waste all my education just to become a train driver! So that never happened. However I admire the signalmen and can appreciate their endeavours to keep the traffic flowing at all times. I enjoy spending time, when I can, in heritage line boxes and seeing how the whole system integrates and works. I would love to try signalling but I am rather put off by the necessary maintenance of the log. When two trains cross on a single line , with all the token exchanges etc. the log would be the last thing to remember! LB traffic would indicate that several pages of the log would be the result of one shift. No sitting and drinking tea there! Please keep the pictures coming Tony. They are a source of great inspiration and delight in this part of deep Essex. Martin Long

Those pictures of the V2 in latter years show what a super design they were even when scruffy. I have always liked them and was amazed to learn that they were considered for the GE main line at one time. One was dispatched to Stratford but subsequently had problems with the Liverpool Street curves. Just to think that if the tests had gone well, The Brits would never have been deployed on the line and I would not have had the enthusiasm that I have for them. I would love to be able to run one on my bit of east Norfolk but feel that is stretching modellers licence just a tad too far. Our Mr. Gresley was a person with a keen eye for how a loco looked and the proportions were usually spot on. I bet the pile of ash out of the smokebox played havoc with the 2:1 gear as it makes a fine grinding paste. I had the sad task yesterday of sorting our a mates's railway room as he has passed on. A very sobering experience as kit after kit was found and we could see what he planned to do had things turned out differently. Perhaps we should all look to our stores of goodies and if we are never going to build a quarter of the hoarded goodies then pass them on and not leave a nightmare to our loved ones to sort out. (Guilty as charged!) Seeing the lovely pictures here cheered me up a great deal. Thank you one and all. Martin Long

As our Leader has commented, this thread twists and turns in a totally unpredictable way. This is part of its charm. The model magazines are now all much of a muchness and clones of each other. I would suggest that BRM when it started was a kick up the whatsit for the then established titles which seem in turn to have tried to match or outdo BRM. That said I am not tempted to spend money on pages of reviews of models that are the main thrust of today's magazines. For informative articles we now have to look at the literature produced by the special interest groups of the various scale societies. Where have the modellers gone? Are we all really box openers now? As a rider to this are we really any happier with this state of affairs? I strongly suspect not and that I was far happier with my crude conversion of a Hornby Dublo N2 with condensing gear than I would have been with one straight out of a box that today's modellers can do. There is a sort of perverse satisfaction (masochism?) in creating something from parts made or otherwise acquired but then there is also the fact that someone with the right amount of funds can acquire a model that is often better painted and detailed (though not necessarily better running.) I went to a "traditional" model shop the other day which is a rare thing for me. There was not a kit on display yet the place was full of red and blue boxes and super buildings just ready to put on your baseboards. Where is the pleasure to be had in that? As a youngster I was shown models of southern stock which the builder (who only had the use of one arm) made from shellacked card. They were mostly EMU's and they were a worlld apart from my primitive Tri-ang trains. He was doing what our leader is doing today and he succeeded in that I wanted to emulate his efforts. I am still trying! Martin Long

I am with the Leader on the question of weathering as to my mind it makes the model look the part that we are trying to portray, It was very rare to see cleaned locos in the times that LB was set especially if they were on mundane daily duties as opposed to a prestige working. You chaps are so fortunate to have a portfolio of offerings either from kits or the retail trade to vent your artistic skills on. Speaking of which our leader makes great mention of the various horse trading deals whereby and through which the great work of LB has come about. It is an admirable way of carrying on with mutual benefits all round to those involved. However, what about us folk who have no "trade able" skills? Perhaps we live in a modelling dessert where there are few fellow types to educate, emulate of encourage us in our endeavours.We are thus perhaps condemned to a life of dreaming what might have been had our talents taken other turns. In my case,I have issues with electrics (I do not understand them especially when relays and complex switches get involved.), and infrastructure as to boards and tracklaying especially out doors where my main line is supposed to run. Folk in my situation often feel inadequate and as the reality of our situation seldom matches the dreams for the reasons mentioned along with the lack of financial resources to pay for the expertise required. Hence I guess they buy what they can and sit and use the purchases as a trigger to the wonderful world that exists in our heads where we all have an equivalent of LB or something similar. There are times when I feel like getting rid of it all and sitting in the chair and imagining what could have been if only the talent mix had been different! Martin Long

Tony Those latest pictures of your project are truly amazing. You must be highly gratified at the way the whole thing is coming together. I would suggest now that it is the little touches that are needed such as the road being subtly different in its greyness etc which you as an artist will readily appreciate. It must be lovely to see something you planned many moons ago coming together just as you imagined it. It is almost approaching nirvana in model railway terms! Good to see you on Sunday. Martin Long

I recall someone made a Stirling single using the Kitmaster body and the tender had a "normal" con rod connections between the tender wheels which acted as drivers which actually provided the power. When it was running you could not see the rods rotating behind the tender frames. Most elegant locos in my humbler opinion. (I wonder if the one I mentioned still exists.) I was opposite the Overlord layout and though it is a fabulously detailed piece of work and extremely well researched, as a model railway it is more like a diorama thorough which trainsd move on occasion. There were lots of inspiring models there and it was a well organised and friendly show. Well done Jackie and her team! Martin Long